Old Piper PA-28

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Kevin87

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Kevin87
So a co-worker's father passes away. He owned a PA-28 that was hangered. It had not been flown for almost 20 years, and inspections stopped 20 years ago as well. They had someone look at the logs and it showed everything was well kept until it he stopped flying it 20 years ago.

The guy bought the plane for 5 grand and flew it right out of the airport.

I guess my question is, does stuff like this happen often? I feel like maybe they got ripped off on selling it for only 5 grand.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
 
Kevin87 said:
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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Well, the engine is timed out according to Lycoming. There must be many AD's not done, including the wing spar corrosion inspection behind the fuel tanks. Is this old enough that it is likely to have the radios that cannot tune the right number of frequencies?

And without a current annual, the plane is not airworthy from the paperwork standpoint. $5k may be about right given the risks to life and wallet in this plane.

I won't ask what airport but will you tell us what State this occurred in? Even though hangared, is this a high corrosion location?

-Skip
 
5 grand sounds fair, worth scrap value. The guy took a bunch of risk personal and financial. Just getting it legal might put him underwater on it.
 
It was hangared in illinois
 
I think the 5 grand was low. Think the new owner got a good deal. Hope he's not flipping it.
 
20 years hu? $5K seems like a pretty fiar price since it was probably sold as-is. For all we know its loaded with wasp nests and mouse pee. There is a thread in a different forum explaining all that could possibly happen trying to start a car with less than two year old car gas in it. I'd bet the car gas is in better shape than 20 year old av gas.

At any rate, or what you believe, there is risks in buying such an airplane. There could be 20 years of bird droppings that have accumulated around the spinner prop and crankshaft causing unrepairable corrosion damage meaning new prop, new spinner, new starter ring gear, and new crankshaft.
 
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Skip Miller said:
Well, the engine is timed out according to Lycoming. There must be many AD's not done, including the wing spar corrosion inspection behind the fuel tanks. Is this old enough that it is likely to have the radios that cannot tune the right number of frequencies?

And without a current annual, the plane is not airworthy from the paperwork standpoint. $5k may be about right given the risks to life and wallet in this plane.

I won't ask what airport but will you tell us what State this occurred in? Even though hangared, is this a high corrosion location?

-Skip
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Wing spar is an sb not an ad and it's not a big deal. I can't think of any deal breaker ADs on a PA28. But yeah, given the price PA28s are selling for, an unairworthy one sitting for that long, $5K is about right.
 
SB or AD, no big deal........unless the corrosion is there. My 67' PA-28-180C had corrosion and was fixed for about $15,000 and required a DER. (before my ownership)

I highly suspect a Cherokee that was sitting 20 years with a battery connected, will have significant corrosion. Nothing better to produce corrosion than a battery connected. A slight current is the basis for galvanic corrosion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion
 
obviously he paid fair value or there would have been higher bidders

why the worry that a transacion between 2 other parties might or might not be "fair" ? Who audited the "fairness" of everything you have bought or sold ?
 
Doesn't seem far off, was the engine pickled before it sat for 20 years? Sounds like a money pit to me.
 
On a side note: what drives owners to let planes rot like this? Seems so sad and unnecessary. Airplane graveyards are all over the place for no reason. All those planes have value, why not sell to someone who could use it once you're done with it? Are these guys hanging on to the hope that they're going to fly again eventually? :confused:
 
Irish_Armada said:
On a side note: what drives owners to let planes rot like this? Seems so sad and unnecessary. Airplane graveyards are all over the place for no reason. All those planes have value, why not sell to someone who could use it once you're done with it? Are these guys hanging on to the hope that they're going to fly again eventually? :confused:
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they own it. If they want to let it rot that's their business. If you want to buy a plane there are tons for sale at any time. No need to worry yourself over what I'm doing with mine (which at the moment is sitting in my hangar back in the usa rotting away, thank you very much)
 
kgruber said:
I highly suspect a Cherokee that was sitting 20 years with a battery connected, will have significant corrosion. Nothing better to produce corrosion than a battery connected. A slight current is the basis for galvanic corrosion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion
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I want to know what brand that battery is that can produce a "slight current" for 20 years. I'd like to buy some stock in that company. :wink2:
 
Irish_Armada said:
On a side note: what drives owners to let planes rot like this? Seems so sad and unnecessary. Airplane graveyards are all over the place for no reason. All those planes have value, why not sell to someone who could use it once you're done with it? Are these guys hanging on to the hope that they're going to fly again eventually? :confused:
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People like the OP that think the treasure that has sat for 20 years must be worth more then 5 grand. And the universal human cognitive failure about sunk costs and continuing to sink further despite it being a bad idea.
 
ClimbnSink said:
People like the OP that think the treasure that has sat for 20 years must be worth more then 5 grand. And the universal human cognitive failure about sunk costs and continuing to sink further despite it being a bad idea.
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I just don't know enough about maintenance so I thought I would ask about it.
 
bartmc said:
I can't think of any deal breaker ADs on a PA28.
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Lycoming has an AD on the O-320s of 160 hp. It has to do with corrosion in the crankshaft nose bore. If that corrosion is deep enough, it needs a new crank. VERY expensive.

In addition, there are numerous ADs that have arisen over the last 20 years that probably will apply to everything from the magnetos to the ignition switch to the carburetor and vacuum pump and on and on...

Dan
 
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I'd be worried about the condition of the engine. the worst thing you can do to a plane is not fly it. I'd be surprised if there aren't any issues with that engine over the next few hundred hours.
 
rbridges said:
I'd be worried about the condition of the engine. the worst thing you can do to a plane is not fly it. I'd be surprised if there aren't any issues with that engine over the next few hundred hours.
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people spend too much time worrying. It's just a collection of parts, if parts break or wear out, fix them and move on
 
JHW said:
people spend too much time worrying. It's just a collection of parts, if parts break or wear out, fix them and move on
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I just sent in a registration for a New to me airplane. I explained it or wrote on the registration " Parts " for I feel like you Jeff, until I get this thing flying again it just parts.
Boy the FAA did not see it that way. First they have been really helpful and are working to help me straighten this out. But because I did this they, the FAA wrote this airplane off as destroyed. I will never do that again.

The airplane in this video sat for over 20 years. When the owner opened the hangar to show me my new home this airplane looked like a piece. I thought it was junk. Shows you want I know. It had no front wheel, was resting on the tail. What tires it had sat flat. The engine was locked.

A few weeks later and I came out to the hangar and there she sits running. I was shocked.

http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/n8053h/media/172cessna042_zpsf5b74b3f.mp4.html
 
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JHW said:
people spend too much time worrying. It's just a collection of parts, if parts break or wear out, fix them and move on
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you're right, but some parts cost much more than other parts. if someone gets hit with an unexpected expensive repair, the plane may get grounded indefinitely due to a lack of funds.
 
rbridges said:
you're right, but some parts cost much more than other parts. if someone gets hit with an unexpected expensive repair, the plane may get grounded indefinitely due to a lack of funds.
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if you paid $5k for it, who cares ?

it's a lot like straight tail cessna 310's. Buy one, fly it till something big brakes, then push it in the ditch and buy another.
 
JHW said:
if you paid $5k for it, who cares ?

it's a lot like straight tail cessna 310's. Buy one, fly it till something big brakes, then push it in the ditch and buy another.
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Sounds like a hell of a deal to me, especially if it was hangared and nothing major was sticking out
 
kgruber said:
SB or AD, no big deal........unless the corrosion is there. My 67' PA-28-180C had corrosion and was fixed for about $15,000 and required a DER. (before my ownership)

I highly suspect a Cherokee that was sitting 20 years with a battery connected, will have significant corrosion. Nothing better to produce corrosion than a battery connected. A slight current is the basis for galvanic corrosion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion
Click to expand...

Oh jeez! I must be screwed! My airplane has had a nearly fully charged battery attached for almost 48 years! :eek:
 
I don't know what year the plane was.
 
JHW said:
if you paid $5k for it, who cares ?

it's a lot like straight tail cessna 310's. Buy one, fly it till something big brakes, then push it in the ditch and buy another.
Click to expand...

IF you survive the something big breaking....

Dan
 
Kevin87 said:
I don't know what year the plane was.
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If it were a low time airframe, relatively "new" last time it was used 20 years ago (i.e. 1980's vintage), it seems that $5K is not a bad deal at all.
 
Dan Thomas said:
IF you survive the something big breaking....

Dan
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what is going to break on the 310 is the nosegear bellcrank. It will total the airframe but you will be unharmed.

what is going to break on the neglected PA28 is the corroded wing spar. That will total the airframe and maybe take you with it. But it is easy to inspect for. So why not pull a fuel tank, have a look, then offer the 5k USD cash ? If it is relatively clean of corrosion and the engine runs ok, all you need is to get 60ish hours out of it to break even with hiring the same model plane from a flight school.
 
This $5,000 Cherokee, if it has been kept in good storage, sounds like an ideal candidate for a restoration project. Planes like these can end up being the nicest Piper at Oshkosh. Clean, no corrosion, all original, very little wear, an excellent starting point for building the ultimate Cherokee.

Buying this plane just as a means to getting in the air cheaply, I would not recommend.
 
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