OK - Glider pilots...

Matthew

Matthew

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Matthew
... I'm seriously considering taking it up next year (or at least giving it the old college try).

A club nearby does give lessons. I'd probably have to join, I haven't called them yet for the details.

Is there a 'season'?

With a plane, as a renter, I can usually fly with less than a day of notice to the FBO to reserve a plane. How does being a renter with a glider compare? Scheduling the glider and tow-plane seems like it could be twice the trouble. Can it really be that spontaneous? Or does it usually depend on the club get-together schedule?

I'll probably spend some time checking the whole situation out, but I'd appreciate any advance information or comments on your own experiences.

Thanks,
Matt
 
Matt,

its going to vary widely depending on the club. yes there is a season here in the midwest, although it will be longer down there than it is up here. around here we stop flying in november and bring them back out late march or april. mostly because its darn cold and theres no heat. also because there really isnt any thermals in the winter.

its pretty standard to have scheduled towpilots for the weekend. then you just need to arrange with your instructor to have a glider. one thing for sure: glider training (especially in a club) doesnt really work like powered training. it often doesnt work the best to just show up for your hour block and then leave. in my experience at least, the most productive sessions were when i had 2 or 3 students out at once, and was switching them out. everyone ends up spending several hours at the airports, gets 3 or 4 flights in, and also helps ground crewing and doing other stuff associated with the task.

Depending on demand also, our club can also arrange flying during the week. it really just depends on if your towpilots and instructors have real jobs or are retired or if they're married and if they have kids.
 
tonycondon said:
Matt,

its going to vary widely depending on the club. yes there is a season here in the midwest, although it will be longer down there than it is up here. around here we stop flying in november and bring them back out late march or april. mostly because its darn cold and theres no heat. also because there really isnt any thermals in the winter.

its pretty standard to have scheduled towpilots for the weekend. then you just need to arrange with your instructor to have a glider. one thing for sure: glider training (especially in a club) doesnt really work like powered training. it often doesnt work the best to just show up for your hour block and then leave. in my experience at least, the most productive sessions were when i had 2 or 3 students out at once, and was switching them out. everyone ends up spending several hours at the airports, gets 3 or 4 flights in, and also helps ground crewing and doing other stuff associated with the task.

Depending on demand also, our club can also arrange flying during the week. it really just depends on if your towpilots and instructors have real jobs or are retired or if they're married and if they have kids.
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I figured on the training part - being part of a group and being involved in the ground crew operations seems like the way to go. That's also some of the experience and networking that I think I'd want to have anyway.

As far as scheduling around towpilots and instructors jobs and families - I'm in the same situation with my own schedule.

Thanks,
Matt
 
Matthew said:
As far as scheduling around towpilots and instructors jobs and families - I'm in the same situation with my own schedule.

Thanks,
Matt
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most of the other guys probably are too, so it'll likely work out OK.

Id guess that most of the weekday flying my club has been able to do this year has been when i've been available to tow because im working at the airport all day anyway and one of the instructors who is retired is available to fly.
 
How many months you can fly and how short notice you need definitely seem to depend on a lot of factors, but FWIW, my club flies twice a week, weather permitting, until it's just too damn cold, or so I hear.

And we now have at least four qualified tow pilots and two gliders, so once a member has the PP-G, they are not restricted to Sundays and Tuesdays, if the weather's good and one of the tow pilots is available. Two of those guys are retired, live close to the field, and are usually there when the weather's good.

It's a PITA doing all the ground logisitics without at least one other person, but it can be done. Get to the point where you can stay aloft several hours on a tow, and you only need to deal with staging the glider and putting it away once.

I've been flying at least once a week all summer, and doing it pretty cheap, too. We don't fly X-C or land "out"; that simplifies things. And it's flying regardless- good flying.
I'm not sure how it all works if you are not in a club, but really, being a member and taking your turn doing all the various tasks is part of the fun, if you don't mind a little work. It's fun spending the whole day at the airport, hanging out with everyone, helping them, and doing some flying while I'm at it.

Find the right club and you might get hooked, so be careful! ;)
 
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Matt, Give them a call as you planned, but better would be to go out to their field and hang around for a flying day. This will give you a feel for the members and the operation while you can informally ask questions. If it's a good club, you'll feel welcome and want to come back. During the off season the club may have scheduled meetings, get togethers, dinners or other social activities. going to such events would also give you a feel for things before you put your money down.

Clubs are clubs which means the members are what make it. Training is probably not as organized as you are used to with power training at an FBO. That's some of the charm of the sport. I hope you go for it!
 
Lance F said:
Matt, Give them a call as you planned, but better would be to go out to their field and hang around for a flying day. This will give you a feel for the members and the operation while you can informally ask questions. If it's a good club, you'll feel welcome and want to come back. During the off season the club may have scheduled meetings, get togethers, dinners or other social activities. going to such events would also give you a feel for things before you put your money down.

Clubs are clubs which means the members are what make it. Training is probably not as organized as you are used to with power training at an FBO. That's some of the charm of the sport. I hope you go for it!
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I keep toying with the idea of doing this too. I have now visited two clubs. yesterday I stopped off at Hartford with Pete and hung out for a bit. I had to go as my bachelor weekend was thwarted by canceled travel plans so I was committed to having to return to entertain visiting family. But I may have done a flight had I not had to get home.

But at each club I have been to I have enjoyed seeing people just hanging out on the flight line talking flying and enjoying their sport. That is a lot different that around powered guys. We usually are not hanging out as much, we are going from point a to b and are too busy to talk. i can see the attraction gliders can also be a social one that I have not seen in powered flight.
 
Yep I agree with all that has been said so far. Half the fun is hanging out at the airport and visiting with friends before and after flying (a well stocked hangar fridge can be real helpful in that). Our club here in wi runs May-Oct.
 
Hey, thanks all. Yeah - the social part of hanging out all day is appealing. Paying your dues as ground crew is all part of the learning experience, too.

I did plan on not only calling, but going out for a day when they are operating and getting a feel.

Question on flying the tow plane - it probably requires a commercial license?

I have no idea - what's to be expected of a typical beginner/student glider?

As a PP-ASEL, what's a reasonable/average schedule towards a glider rating for a regular guy with a job and family?

Matt
 
FAR 61.69 outlines the requirements for towing gliders, for all practical purposes, and probably insurance requirements, most tow pilots ar commercial pilots. It's possible for you to get checked out, but a lot depends on your towplane, club rules, and insurance requirements.

As to getting your rating, I am trying to finish up my glider add on rating this fall. I probably should be done by now, but for the last couple of months I have just been having too much fun flying my Ka-6 around. I started to fly sailplanes last august, and soloed in september. If it hadn't been for the abysmal weather here this spring, I'd probably be done by now.

That said, you should be able to get your rating done in one season, if you can make it out to the airport one day per flyable weekend.
 
i agree with pete, you should be able to add on the rating in a season.

for winter reading i suggest the FAA's Glider Flying Handbook.

Also check out www.bobwander.com he has an excellent series of soaring books written at pretty reasonable prices. perhaps "Everyone's first gliding book!" and "Power Pilot's Guide to Soaring" would be a good start.
 
tonycondon said:
i agree with pete, you should be able to add on the rating in a season.

for winter reading i suggest the FAA's Glider Flying Handbook.

Also check out www.bobwander.com he has an excellent series of soaring books written at pretty reasonable prices. perhaps "Everyone's first gliding book!" and "Power Pilot's Guide to Soaring" would be a good start.
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WOW TRUSTWORTHY GUY!

I went to that website and looked at his stuff. I decided to order a couple of things and before I knew it I got a message that I had placed my order. But I had never given him a credit card #. He states they will send me the stuff and an invoice to pay by check! Don't see that type of trust anymore.

Gotta do business with him just because of that type of attitude.
 
Matthew said:
Hey, thanks all. Yeah - the social part of hanging out all day is appealing. Paying your dues as ground crew is all part of the learning experience, too.
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I forgot to mention another thing: if the club members also have access to powered aircraft, you may get some rides and stick time in them, being there so much. I've added 3 more power types to my logbook since joining the glider club.



Question on flying the tow plane - it probably requires a commercial license?
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You may get some casual stick time (if it's a 2-seater; i still haven't flown "our" citabria yet, but some time they're towing the single on a cool day I'm sure i will)... but no, unless the tow is for hire (like our "discovery" flights we do in the trainer, with a commercial pilot in glider and towplane), you don't need a commercial ticket.

What you will need, aside from the FAA requirements regarding tow pilot training (which others here could tell you more about) is sufficient total time and time in type to meet the insurance requirements. Depends on the plane and the insurer.
To give you a rough idea, the policy on this Citabria requires something like 500TT and 100 in type (which includes the tailwheel endorsement). I think that's just to solo it, let alone fly tows.

At the rate I'm going (zero Citabria hrs all summer), it doesn't look good... but since I have the PPASEL and the tailwheel add-on already, I could legally log any stick time I get in it, even if it's just taking it back to the field from the rear seat after a tow, and that would count towards the insurance reqs. Meanwhile, the total time will keep going up, even if I'm mostly just flying gliders. Maybe in ten years I'll be able to fly solo in the Citabria. Something to look forward to, LOL. :D

But again, to fly the towplane is one thing- actually flying tows is yet another, as per the insurer and the FAA.



I have no idea - what's to be expected of a typical beginner/student glider?
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Show up in time to help prep the glider(s), bring water, and smile. :D


As a PP-ASEL, what's a reasonable/average schedule towards a glider rating for a regular guy with a job and family?
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Depends, just like the PPASEL. I started in July with 250 hrs power time, flying once or twice a week, average two flights each time. I now have about twentyish glider flights and maybe 15 hrs glider time, and I am real close to the solo. Still not entirely sure I'm flying the glider or it's flying me, but I'm told I'm doing great. :D

Not sure how long it will take after that to get the PP-G... I figure will solo before this season is over, and be able to do the check ride early next season, if the cobweb buildup isn't too great this winter.
 
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Thanks.

What about the glider itself? Is there much of a difference between a beginner/student aircraft and an intermediate? Wingloading? Glide ratio? Speed brakes? Other differences?

Again, I'm starting at 0.0 on this.

Regarding the towplane: I have no idea what they fly at the local club, but like other pilots I'm always looking for an opportunity to fly. If there's a potential to get more powered flight, it's also something to consider. Yeah, I know that insurance requirements may mean a long time before I could do anything like that, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Matt
 
typical trainers will be in the low to medium performance range. A Schweizer 2-22 or 2-33 like Pete flies is in the neighborhood of 20:1 while a Blanik or Grob will be in the high 20's to mid 30's. They will definitely be equipped with airbrakes. the higher performance the glider, typically the more powerful the airbrakes. Often clubs will also have a single seat glider or two that you can fly once you get up to solo standard. Generally these will be somewhat similar in performance and handling to the 2 seaters so that the transition is smooth.

There are much higher performance 2 seaters out there, like the DG-1000 and Duo Discus with glide ratios well into the 40's, but the price tag is a bit steep for most clubs.
 
Matt, I was just looking at the SSA site, and there are 2 clubs in your general vicinity (KC) one In Gardner, KS and one in Harrisonville, MO.

The club in Gardner has no website, from what I can find, and the SSA site lists them as having an L-13 (2 place) and a 1-26 (single place).

the club in Harrisonville, has a 2-22 (2 place) , a 1-25, and a Ka-6 (both single).

Personally i'd go to MO, but that is because I own a Ka-6 myself, and it is such a nice plane.

My advice would be to check them both out this weekend, and go to the one you like better. Also call ahead and see if you can schedule a ride to see if you'll like it.
 
Heck.. I have fun just showing up to help with ground ops. No real deep desire or time to do PP-G at this point in life, but it's still fun to hang out at the airport all day and maybe get a ride with someone in the 2-seater every once in a while. :)
 
vontresc said:
My advice would be to check them both out this weekend, and go to the one you like better. Also call ahead and see if you can schedule a ride to see if you'll like it.
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Sounds like a good idea, but...

I'm booked up (out of town, family bidness) for the next handfull of weekends. That'll put things out to early to mid November before I could get any substantial time at either club. They may be shut down for the season by then.

Gardner is 10-15 minutes from home for me, Harrisonville is probably half-hour or more. It probably is worth checking out both. I routinely fly to Harrisonville to get away from my tower and work on t&g and pattern work at an uncontrolled field. I've never noticed any glider activity there, though, when I've been there.
 
vontresc said:
Matt, I was just looking at the SSA site, and there are 2 clubs in your general vicinity (KC) one In Gardner, KS and one in Harrisonville, MO.
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Hmmm. My hometown is Harrisonville. Never heard of a glider operation there. Is it new, relatively speaking?
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Hmmm. My hometown is Harrisonville. Never heard of a glider operation there. Is it new, relatively speaking?
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Greg, I just checked. That operation is at a private field (Richter) about 6NM NE of the Harrisonville airport.
 
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