Oil change question

itsjames2011

itsjames2011

Pre-takeoff checklist
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James
Tomorrow I will be doing the first oil change on my 1964 piper Cherokee 140. It has a quick drain and will be a relatively easy job but I'm curious, do I have to drain the oil cooler as well? Unfortunately my manual does not have specifics for oil changes.

Any advice appreciated!
 
Just drain the oil from the sump, ignore the oil cooler. Remember to put a plastic bag around the filter after letting it drain for at least an hour. You won't drip as much when you take it off.

Hate the horizontal filter.
 
murphey said:
Just drain the oil from the sump, ignore the oil cooler. Remember to put a plastic bag around the filter after letting it drain for at least an hour. You won't drip as much when you take it off.

Hate the horizontal filter.
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Agreed....

They should hang the engineer by his gonads who came up with that stupid design.....:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
 
I set mine to draining right after I stable her, following a flight of decent length.
Come back in a day or so and finish. I think I am getting 99%....instead of 92% of the bad un's out of the case.
 
Ditto on hot oil changes. I believe it drains all/most of the contaminants held in suspension in the oil.
 
I don't have the new filter on hand yet but I believe it's going to be a champion. Is that going to require DC-4? If so can that be purchased at any kind of commercial chain store?
 
itsjames2011 said:
I don't have the new filter on hand yet but I believe it's going to be a champion. Is that going to require DC-4? If so can that be purchased at any kind of commercial chain store?
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DC-4?:confused: The filters are commonly available where aircraft are serviced, however you want to order them from someone like Aircraft Spruce or Chief to get a good price, and then you may want to order a case.

Or, you can go to one of these:
http://www.challengeraviation.com/newproducts.html
 
I do not like quick drains, they drain too slow to carry away the stuff off the bottom of the sump.
 
I use DC-4 because I have it around anyway. But, like Dave says, moistening the gasket with oil works fine also. Just remember if you use oil...when you run-up to check for leaks...the dribbles of oil on the bottom of the filter are likely from the oil you spread on the gasket and not an actual leak, especially if you are liberal with your application.

The gasket on my filter is inset quite a bit from the outer edge of the filter and this makes it difficult, if not impossible, to clean the excess oil and avoid the false run-up leaks.
 
timwinters said:
I use DC-4 because I have it around anyway. But, like Dave says, moistening the gasket with oil works fine also. Just remember if you use oil...when you run-up to check for leaks...the dribbles of oil on the bottom of the filter are likely from the oil you spread on the gasket and not an actual leak, especially if you are liberal with your application.

The gasket on my filter is inset quite a bit from the outer edge of the filter and this makes it difficult, if not impossible, to clean the excess oil and avoid the false run-up leaks.
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You don't wash the engine prior to running it to check for leaks?
 
TIP: Don't forget that once you pre-loosen the old filter, you can punch some holes in the bottom and let it drain (using a funnel) to avoid the huge mess that would normally ensue if you didn't drain it. Once it is empty, it does not make much mess.

FBH, I agree, they should publish the name of the idiot who thought that a horizontal filter is a good idea ... so that we all can pay him a visit and express our "gratitude". :)
I hate changing the oil on wife's Honda toy, same spiel, dumbass Japanese engineers might be good at math but they sure don't understand how physics works. :rolleyes2:
 
Tom-D said:
You don't wash the engine prior to running it to check for leaks?
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Depends if it needs it or not. If I don't have to go spraying solvent around, I don't. Most of the time the mess I make on an oil change is easily handled with a rag. A plastic funnel with a hose goes a long ways to keeping things clean.
 
Yup.

Fly to get everything up to temp,

Drain into a 5gal bucket, remember to buy the top with the spout too, I just wrap a towel around the filter and get it off as fast as I can.

Capture some oil mid stream for a oil analysis if you do that.

Put it back together, double check your torque settings.

Pour your choice of oil in, dumping a little cam guard in between quarts.

Verify all your tools are accounted for

Fire up and run it to temp, check of leaks.

Log book entry, update the oil due date and hours on your little "due list" in your glove box.
 
As far as the oil filter mess goes, I use a plastic oil qt. container to drain the oil in to. Put the cap back on and lay the qt. down on a work bench label facing upward, cut the face of the qt. off leaving a ridge all the way around the container. Now slide the container under the filter with the cap facing away from the engine. Trim it to make the install easier if required. On my engine (O-360), once the container is in there it's not going anywhere. Loosen the filter and let it drain in to the container. You can unscrew the filter completly and set the filter in to the container and remove everything at once. You still need to wipe a couple drips off from the surface of the oil filter adapter and some will drip just bellow that. It makes it very easy and clean with no need to degrease anything.
 
I actually prefer the horizontal filter.

Cut an old bottle open, slip under the filter, drain into bottle. With the upside-down filter, it just runs out all over the filter when you go to pull it off.
 
I think I understand what you described, Kevin, but just for sanity, do you have any pictures so that I can make sure I will do it right?
Never heard of doing it that way but it sure makes it sound easy. Will try next time!!
 
EdFred said:
With the upside-down filter, it just runs out all over the filter when you go to pull it off.
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Not if you puncture a hole in the bottom and let it drain out first, eliminating any mess during unscrewing. Also, if any filter wrench isn't grabbing, just jab a screwdriver through the filter body (now that it's empty) and twist it off. :)
 
BigBadLou said:
Not if you puncture a hole in the bottom and let it drain out first, eliminating any mess during unscrewing. Also, if any filter wrench isn't grabbing, just jab a screwdriver through the filter body (now that it's empty) and twist it off. :)
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Can't punch a hole in the bottom since there's not enough room to get a screwdriver in there and then a hammer to hit it with.
 
Most thread down vertical mount filters will drain back their oil if you wait 10 minutes.
 
Tips for oil changes:

They should be done hot. It gets the contaminants in suspension and makes it easier to drain.

You don't need to drain any oil coolers or lines, as long as you do regular oil changes. The additives in the new oil will clean out the system, and there's so little of the old oil, that it's inconsequential. If you are changing every 50 hours anyways or every annual, your oil will still have a little bit of useful life left (oil can get REALLY REALLY nasty before it's considered "bad").

DC-4 is recommended on the oil filter, but engine oil is fine too. WARNING: on Rotax engines, DO NOT USE SILICONE LUBRICANTS. Due to the extremely tight tolerances and the type of additives in the oil, they don't play well with silicone. Just use engine oil.

This is really, really useful for oil changes: http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=18611 . For those using rotax engines, they do have a small size.

Punching holes in the filter: do it carefully if you intend to inspect the filter for chips. You don't want to do an overhaul because you found chips from the oil filter do you? :p (EDIT: To clarify, make sure you know the difference between the stuff that gets in the filter from you cutting it open, and the stuff that is actually from your engine).
 
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Anticept said:
Tips for oil changes:

They should be done hot. It gets the contaminants in suspension and makes it easier to drain.

You don't need to drain any oil coolers or lines, as long as you do regular oil changes. The additives in the new oil will clean out the system, and there's so little of the old oil, that it's inconsequential. If you are changing every 50 hours anyways or every annual, your oil will still have a little bit of useful life left (oil can get REALLY REALLY nasty before it's considered "bad").

This is really, really useful for oil changes: http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=18611 . For those using rotax engines, they do have a small size.

Punching holes in the filter: do it carefully if you intend to inspect the filter for chips. You don't want to do an overhaul because you found chips from the oil filter do you? :p
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You are afraid to punch holes in a filter because you might make chips, OK,,, how do you cut the filter open?
 
Tom-D said:
You are afraid to punch holes in a filter because you might make chips, OK,,, how do you cut the filter open?
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Carefully and with the right tools. :). I'm just saying don't just stab the filter in any old place. That's my "just in case you didn't think about it..." statement.
 
Anticept said:
Carefully and with the right tools. :). I'm just saying don't just stab the filter in any old place. That's my "just in case you didn't think about it..." statement.
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Most every proper tool on the market turns the filter against a small cutter wheel. That breaks the metal just like punching a hole. I've seen people use every thing from cold chisels, hack saws, to lathes to cut the filter can. I've never heard of any one making a big deal over "Chips" cause by doing it this way.
 
It's not the chips themselves, it's when you are inspecting the filter insert and you see the flakes/chips. If you are careful, you won't mistake these for engine debris, or even get them in the filter insert in the first place. I had one of our club members helping me with an oil change, and while we were looking through he got all worried about the flakes we were finding. I had to point out that it was paint and metal from the cutter, and the real stuff we need to worry about will be bigger and more numerous. A few little chips here and there are fine.

EDIT: Wait you're a mechanic. I'm speaking the wrong language haha. I was using my mechanic-pilot diplomacy, no wonder why this conversation wasn't going anywhere, you're cutting through the bull**** :p
 
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Tom-D said:
You don't wash the engine prior to running it to check for leaks?
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Engines stay clean if they don't leak.

attachment.php
 
Here's the pic. Sorry, it took a while to get it posted, I accidently left my phone at the hangar. Don't look at the nasty oil. It's remnants of gear oil, out of my airport car!
 

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Bump for a question.

How should one do the logbook entry? Just write "oil and filter change" and record the tach time? Anything else?

Is it standard practice to cut the filter open and look for metal at every oil change? Or is it some other interval?
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Bump for a question.

How should one do the logbook entry? Just write "oil and filter change" and record the tach time? Anything else?

Is it standard practice to cut the filter open and look for metal at every oil change? Or is it some other interval?
Click to expand...

Yes, but you might add that you ran and inspected for leaks.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Bump for a question.

How should one do the logbook entry? Just write "oil and filter change" and record the tach time? Anything else?

Is it standard practice to cut the filter open and look for metal at every oil change? Or is it some other interval?
Click to expand...

"1700 Hobbs; Changed Oil with 8 quarts Phillips X/C and Champion filter P/Nxxxxxxx. Ran and checked for leaks, none detected. <signature, certificate grade & number>"
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Bump for a question.

How should one do the logbook entry? Just write "oil and filter change" and record the tach time? Anything else?

Is it standard practice to cut the filter open and look for metal at every oil change? Or is it some other interval?
Click to expand...
There is only one engine that requires the filter be cut open and inspected. 0-320-H2AD, the rest of us do it as a precaution.
 
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