Oh No, My Baby!!!!!!!!!! Crash at PTK.

Re: Crash at PTK

That's my Baby... N55CW. I was going to fly it tomorow.

And it's likely that it was my instructor too...

Missa :(
 
Re: Oh No, My Baby!!!!!!!!!!

"engine stalled..." Right.

Sorry about your loss, Missa.
 
Re: Oh No, My Baby!!!!!!!!!!

oh no, I am so sorry! Missa, this is awful. I hope your worst fears aren't realized... those poor souls.
 
Re: Crash at PTK

Missa said:
That's my Baby... N55CW. I was going to fly it tomorow.

And it's likely that it was my instructor too...

Missa :(

So sorry to hear this news, Missa. Very sad.
 
WWJ (news Radio) just reported it was a 38 yr old pilot and a 50yr old instructor. I'm convinced it was Gene.

Rest in peace.

I know that if he had to choose his death this would be it. He loved the plane and loved being in the plane. I just don't know how to express how much he loved tail wheel flying and instructing. I just wish it would have been later in life.

Missa
 
Re: Crash at PTK

Missa said:
That's my Baby... N55CW. I was going to fly it tomorow.

And it's likely that it was my instructor too...

Missa :(

I am very sorry to hear that.
 
I am very sorry about your loss.

I know how hard our club's recent accidents affected me, and those pilots weren't as close.
 
Re: Crash at PTK

Missa said:
That's my Baby... N55CW. I was going to fly it tomorow.

And it's likely that it was my instructor too...

Missa :(

Oh! Missa!

That's terrible news. :(

I am so sorry to hear of your loss.

I am at loss for words.
 
It's always sad. Two rentals which I have flown have been involved in accidents, one fatal, the other nonfatal but the airplane is somewhere at the bottom of the Hudson River. And a pilot whose hangar was near mine was killed along with his passenger in this airport's only fatal accident.

It's important, though, that we remember that we fly by choice, because it's something we like to do, not because anybody makes us do it.
 
Crash at PTK.

Not sure where the accident happened, in the pattern or outside.
 
Re: Oh No, My Baby!!!!!!!!!!

Missa said:
Gosh, Missa, I'm sorry to hear that - it's terrible. I spent the morning in the pattern doing go-arounds and pattern work. Yeah, there was a time or two that I almost did something stupid, or thought about doing something stupid . . .
 
What else can be said but CRAP! Its tough to loose good people who are close to you. Very sorry to hear about it. Funny how it works but I think I take each aircraft down post a little personally even if I have no idea who was involved. Never happens when I hear about fatal car crashes unless of course I know the people involved. Sorry again for your loss Missa my prayers are with their families.

Was this a Citabria?
 
{{hugs}} Missa. T&Ps for the victims' families and friends.

terry :(
 
Re: Crash at PTK

Missa said:
That's my Baby... N55CW. I was going to fly it tomorow.

And it's likely that it was my instructor too...

Missa :(

Sorry, sad to hear. I go through this a couple times a year.
 
Re: Oh No, My Baby!!!!!!!!!!

mikea said:
"engine stalled..." Right.

Sorry about your loss, Missa.

Picture kinda has a "spun in" look to it.
 
Re: Oh No, My Baby!!!!!!!!!!

Henning said:
Picture kinda has a "spun in" look to it.
It does, but if you look at the other images on the TV station web site, you see where it dragged across the ground for 100 feet or more, going across a road at one point, which is certainly not what a spin in would have done. Hate to speculate without more detail. Coulda been a bunch of things.
 
Re: Oh No, My Baby!!!!!!!!!!

Ken Ibold said:
It does, but if you look at the other images on the TV station web site, you see where it dragged across the ground for 100 feet or more, going across a road at one point, which is certainly not what a spin in would have done. Hate to speculate without more detail. Coulda been a bunch of things.

Also, damage pattern looks like the initial impact was pretty vertical.
 
Re: Oh No, My Baby!!!!!!!!!!

Missa: With each occurring tragedy I get chills up and down my spine, clueless as to why I'm still walking, talking, working, lurking, singing and clinging..........to that which soothes my worldly concerns -- flying. My sincerest condolences upon the loss of your Baby, to you and to the families so stricken.

HR
 

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Sorry to all who knew them. This always sucks...
 
While I was at the Bar with two other of Gene's tailwheel graduates we heard the news confirm it was Gene and a student we didn't know.

We had a drink and toasted absent friends.

Gene made me a tailwheel pilot and the plane he took with him was the Citabra I loved so well.

Gene was in the back seat for this:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3907&highlight=heaven

I'll miss him.
Missa
 
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Sorry to hear that. I too lost and instructor in a similiar way. Make sure you get up and fly before you start second guessing youself and your abilities.

Scott

Missa said:
While I was at the Bar with two other of Gene's tailwheel graduates we heard the news confirm it was Gene and a student we didn't know.

We had a drink and toasted absent friends.

Gene made me a tailwheel pilot and the plane he took with him was the Citabra I loved so well.

Gene was in the back seat for this:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3907&highlight=heaven

I'll miss him.
Missa
 
Missa,

Sorry to hear of the loss of your friend and instructor. There is a bond we have with them, sharing the passion of flight. I'm glad you were together with friends and raised your glasses to salute someone who touched your life, I'm sure he would have been proud.

My first instructor was involved in an engine out accident. I had cancelled my lesson and he instead went with a fellow pilot in my time slot, that had recently purchased a low wing for his wife. I got a call while working at another one of our airports that he went down. Needless to say I got in gear and made the 45 minute trip to check on his status. About half way there I got a call that he and fellow pilot were indeed ok and the plane was a total loss. I had only spent 20 hours with this man but there was a friendship there, one that only could be understood by those who also share that type of relationship as student/instructor.

Mary and I both will keep you in our thoughts and prayers......
 
Missa said:
While I was at the Bar with two other of Gene's tailwheel graduates we heard the news confirm it was Gene and a student we didn't know.

We had a drink and toasted absent friends.

Gene made me a tailwheel pilot and the plane he took with him was the Citabra I loved so well.

Gene was in the back seat for this:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3907&highlight=heaven

I'll miss him.
Missa

Missa, I'm so sorry to hear of the accident. All I can say is don't dwell on the tradgedy, just your positive memories. He will live on through your fond memories.
 
:(
Missa, sorry to hear this on the news last night. My first thoughts were of how you said you loved flying that plane, and wondering who the folks were. My sympathies to you, the families of the pilot's, and to Barry Sutton of Sutton Aviation.

I was planning to do the tailwheel training there this year as you'd done. Such a tragedy.
 
Re: Crash at PTK

Henning said:
Sorry, sad to hear. I go through this a couple times a year.
Couple times a year? Cap'n what are you involved in that you deal with this grief so often?

Sorry to hear about the accident. This spooks us all from time to time.
 
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Re: Crash at PTK

Missa said:
That's my Baby... N55CW. I was going to fly it tomorow.

And it's likely that it was my instructor too...

Missa :(

Missa ..

My condolences. It's so hard to lose fellow pilots and friends. It's
hard to fly and not have this happen every so often. We just try
to learn what we can from it so we become better pilots.

My prayers go out to the families.

Roger
 
Re: Crash at PTK

glpilot said:
Couple times a year? Cap'n what are you involved in that you deal with this grief so often?

Agricultural Aviation and Offshore Industry. Mostly it's the Ag flying, but occassionally a boat will get someone.
 
Missa,

I'm so sorry. I became friends with one of my instructors, and I can't imagine how I would feel if he died. The airplane that I soloed in was also totaled by someone, and I felt bad about that, too, even though it was only an airplane. How sad.

Judy
 
Re: Crash at PTK

Henning said:
Agricultural Aviation and Offshore Industry. Mostly it's the Ag flying, but occassionally a boat will get someone.


when I was down in Hilton Head the front page story in the local paper said that the proliferation of cell towers is a cause for surprise among many ag pilots. one guy barely missed one at the last second. apparently some are so new they aren't on charts or GPS and the tower owners aren't notifying the correct people (my paraphrase)
 
Re: Crash at PTK

woodstock said:
when I was down in Hilton Head the front page story in the local paper said that the proliferation of cell towers is a cause for surprise among many ag pilots. one guy barely missed one at the last second. apparently some are so new they aren't on charts or GPS and the tower owners aren't notifying the correct people (my paraphrase)

Drifting a bit here, but I'd think a prudent Ag pilot would survey the area quite thoroughly (from the ground?) before dusting. There are plenty of situations where new obstructions show up at low altitudes long before they appear on a chart.
 
From Aero News Network
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=a4b1c720-893e-4ecf-953d-80e0c70f715c&
sad.gif
Taildragger Checkout Turns Fatal In Michigan


Sun, 29 Jan '06
Two Experienced Pilots Perish In Pontiac Pattern

It was a routine training flight, with two experienced pilots on board. And training is, statistically speaking, the safest of all GA operations. But something went tragically awry on approach to Runway 9 Left at Michigan's Oakland County International Airport (KPTK) Friday morning, leaving an airplane destroyed and pilots Gene Hammond and Thomas C. Bailey dead.
The Bellanca Citabria hit hard and skidded across a road before coming to rest in a field at 9:26 AM. There was no fire. According to witnesses, it was making a base to final turn for runway 09L when it dropped. Any comment on he accident at this early date is raw speculation, but these reports and the location and condition of the wreckage are consistent with a stall and a partial recovery that could not be completed before impact with terrain. (A stall without recovery normally shows little horizontal speed at impact and does not leave a long impact trail).
The crew of the aircraft had been in regular communication with the control tower as they flew the pattern; their last transmission was to acknowledge clearance to land.
"We believe he was practicing touch-and-go landings," said airport official David VanderVeen to the Detroit News. "It appears the pilot attempted to land on an alternate runway, called 9-left at the airport, because a Lear jet was departing on the airport's main runway. It appears he turned it too tight, perhaps stalled, and then went down."
FAA spokesman Tony Molinaro said he agreed with VanderVeen's assessment.
The accident, of course, will be investigated by NTSB with assistance from FAA and such parties as may be needed. An initial report should be available from the FAA on Monday; a final report will be months in the making, and will come from the National Transportation Safety Board (see links).
The crash also comes at a time when airport officials, like the rest of Metro Detroit, are gearing up for Super Bowl XL. As many as 150 aircraft related to the Super Bowl are expected at Oakland International Airport in the next week.
Eugene A. Hammond Jr., 51, was instructing the 34-year-old Bailey in the fine art of flying taildraggers -- a specialty of Hammond's and, according to Detroit's WXYZ, a strong desire of Bailey's. According to FAA records, both men were accomplished pilots. Hammond held Commercial ratings in single and multiengine landplanes, single engine seaplane, and gliders, and was certified flight instructor in single and multi-engine airplanes and gliders, as well as an instrument instructor. Bailey was commercial-rated in single and multiengine airplanes and had an instrument rating.
Oakland County, in the suburbs of Pontiac, is the second busiest airport in Michigan, with cargo traffic and lots of GA activity, including plenty of corporate and charter flying.
Citabrias are popular with flight schools because they can be used as tailwheel and aerobatic trainers. While tailwheel planes were once called "conventional" landing gear and trained generations of primary flight students, since the 1960s more students have trained in tricycle-gear airplanes which have more forgiving handling. Since 1991, FAA regulations have required pilots to get flight and ground instruction and an instructor's signoff for proficiency in order to act as pilot in command of tailwheel aircraft. (FAA has also separated tailwheel currency for carrying passengers from general currency; you're only current in tailwheel aircraft if you meet the requirements in a tailwheel aircraft).
The airplane was owned by Sutton Aviation, which is based at Dupont-Lapeer Airport (KD95). The Pontiac-based Citabria may have been a recent addition to Sutton's very comprehensive fleet, as it is listed in their rate schedule online and no photograph is on the company website (www.sutton-aviation.com). The Citabria photo below is Sutton's other one, based at KD95.
An email to Sutton Aviation did not receive a reply by deadline; however, the email was sent very late, and the company can be expected to have had a deluge of other media enquires.
Gene Hammond was the only one of Sutton's instructors who was based at PTK. A statement of the company's philosophy on CFIs on the web page says: "Flight instructing is arguably the most important job in aviation. The future of the industry, and the safety of the skies, depends upon the people who train the pilots."
Amen.
Aero-News extends our condolences to Sutton Aviation and to the friends and families of Hammond and Bailey.[/quote
 
So sorry , Missa. I can't even imagine how hard this is when the people on board are well known to you!

Scott Keyes
 
smigaldi said:
Sun, 29 Jan '06
Two Experienced Pilots Perish In Pontiac Pattern

According to witnesses, it was making a base to final turn for runway 09L when it dropped. Any comment on he accident at this early date is raw speculation, but these reports and the location and condition of the wreckage are consistent with a stall and a partial recovery that could not be completed before impact with terrain. (A stall without recovery normally shows little horizontal speed at impact and does not leave a long impact trail).
The crew of the aircraft had been in regular communication with the control tower as they flew the pattern; their last transmission was to acknowledge clearance to land.
"We believe he was practicing touch-and-go landings," said airport official David VanderVeen to the Detroit News. "It appears the pilot attempted to land on an alternate runway, called 9-left at the airport, because a Lear jet was departing on the airport's main runway. It appears he turned it too tight, perhaps stalled, and then went down."

It's wrong. As I found out 27 was active not 9. According to an instructor at the far end of the feild that was enjoying our unseasonable nice weather while a student was preflighting: 55CW was on upwind when it experianced engine failure. They did a 180 for 9, partial stall and tried to recover...


The airplane was owned by Sutton Aviation, which is based at Dupont-Lapeer Airport (KD95). The Pontiac-based Citabria may have been a recent addition to Sutton's very comprehensive fleet, as it is listed in their rate schedule online and no photograph is on the company website (www.sutton-aviation.com).

It was only on the line since mid last year... I have a prity picture of it whole and happy.

Missa
 
Missa said:
It's wrong. As I found out 27 was active not 9. According to an instructor at the far end of the feild that was enjoying our unseasonable nice weather while a student was preflighting: 55CW was on upwind when it experianced engine failure. They did a 180 for 9, partial stall and tried to recover...
Missa

This is really tragic.
But we should also try take a lesson away from this tragedy. If a highly skilled CFI was unable to complete the 180 back to the runway, us lesser pilots should not even consider trying.
 
Re: Crash at PTK

lancefisher said:
Drifting a bit here, but I'd think a prudent Ag pilot would survey the area quite thoroughly (from the ground?) before dusting. There are plenty of situations where new obstructions show up at low altitudes long before they appear on a chart.

You would like to think so, but in reality, it just doesn't happen. We typically survey the site from above and make our final go-no go decision after doing our smoke and survey run. Lot's of new things go up. Towers aren't a huge problem for me, especially since most of the Cell towers don't use guy wires. New fences sometimes catch me by surprize, especially when they're next to the road under the low power lines. You'd think the farmer would tell you he put up that fence...:eek: Fences and guy wires off electric poles, those are the biggies on my watch list during survey runs.
 
Missa said:
It's wrong. As I found out 27 was active not 9. According to an instructor at the far end of the feild that was enjoying our unseasonable nice weather while a student was preflighting: 55CW was on upwind when it experianced engine failure. They did a 180 for 9, partial stall and tried to recover...



It was only on the line since mid last year... I have a prity picture of it whole and happy.

Missa

Did the observing CFI estimate their altitude at the time of initiating the attempted 180? That would be beneficial for all to know, as well as the winds.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Did the observing CFI estimate their altitude at the time of initiating the attempted 180? That would be beneficial for all to know, as well as the winds.

I can't remember if there's radar coverage below pattern altitude at PTK but it's possible. If they were on the radar, the Mode C should tell that within a hundred feet or so.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Did the observing CFI estimate their altitude at the time of initiating the attempted 180? That would be beneficial for all to know, as well as the winds.

The winds at Troy around noon when I called the AWOS were 260 @ 4 knt. Troy and PTK are really close and ususally have the same winds.

I don't know about the altitude but Gene wouldn't have had the gauges anyway, and I don't know how new the student was to the Citabria. PTK has a radar feed from DTW but I'm not sure if it makes it to the ground there.

I didn't speak to the observing CFII so I'm getting this second hand, I may meet him whenever the services are but I still don't know.

Missa
 
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