Off to the High Altitude Chamber

Dave Siciliano

Dave Siciliano

Final Approach
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Dave Siciliano
Set up a class in OKC for my flying club to attend the High Altitude Chamber on Tuesday. We have eighteen club members (actually a couple are guests) signed up. It will be wheels up at 06:30 for those of leaving Addison and the class is scheduled from 8:00 A.M. to 5:00 P.M.

I've taken some classes on high altitude flight, flown several times at FL250 on oxygen and obtained the gound portion of my High Altitude endorsement, however, this sounded like a great program and several folks encouraged the trip. So, looking forward to lots of fun all day Tuesday with a group from the flying club!

Best,

Dave
 
Sounds good Dave.

I keep meaning to call the FAA because they still list Randolph AFB here in San Antonio as a place where you can take the course.
 
Just to show you what a great group of friends I have, here's an e-mail coaching me for this event!

Dave,
==========================================

Just remember that they raise the chamber in steps. By the time you have your mask off and the altitude is above 25,000ft. you'll be willing to spill your guts about your ex-wife, about that really old lady you told me about in Cancun, about ... well, you get the picture. So you want to be selective about who you take in there with you. Your ex-wife's lawyer wouldn't be a good choice. Oh wait ... considering the chamber will make you fart, maybe that IS a good choice if he gets his mask off and you put yours back on. That's the ticket.
 
More great coaching from a friend!
=====================================================

Remember the proper altitude chamber etiquette. The night before going to the chamber, eat a big spicy burrito dinner, washed down by six or eight beers. Have a half dozen hard boiled eggs for desert, with a little cabbage to help them digest. Find a good movie on cable TV, and try to stay up all night so that you are a little groggy when you arrive at the altitude chamber, that will heighten the experience for you. You will be the hit of the party. <g>
 
sounds like you have some really good friends dave! have fun.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
More great coaching from a friend!
=====================================================

Remember the proper altitude chamber etiquette. The night before going to the chamber, eat a big spicy burrito dinner, washed down by six or eight beers. Have a half dozen hard boiled eggs for desert, with a little cabbage to help them digest. Find a good movie on cable TV, and try to stay up all night so that you are a little groggy when you arrive at the altitude chamber, that will heighten the experience for you. You will be the hit of the party. <g>
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Not boiled eggs, pickled hard boiled eggs for maximum effect. The winner is that last to go back on O2 wins. This is an important training test. When I was in the AF we would perform the exercises in the cockpit. Once we had a visiting general flying left seat, our AC was in the right seat and I was in my typical spot behind them by the NAVs. When all of a sudden the games begin. I was so embarassed for our crew until the AC on intercom complimented the general on his 'abilities' :vomit:;):)
 
Great trip to CAMI.

We had to deal with some weather, but all arrived near the scheduled start time. About 3:00 A.M. the forecast was pretty bleak, but around 6:00 when we were all pre-flighting, it improved. Didn't mind the low ceilings and BR forecast, it was the TSRA that had me thinking about canceling; note about possible hail. Well, it all worked out. Got some bumps in the descent, but broke out at 3,500 (2,500) AGL and dropped it in.

Is ATIS getting longer everywhere? Gosh, it's difficult enough to try to pick it up while listening to Approach single pilot IMC when there's a few blips; seems many of there recording have info on can get elsewhere or should have gotten in a brief. Windsxxx ceiling, vis, etc. then all this stuff about runways closed, taxiway thus and such closed from taxiway A to taxiway D and three for four others; non-conforming lights on runway xxx; VFR arrivals call approach at xxx 20 miles out; tower at xxxxx. Geesh.

Anyway, 12 of us from the club went through the chamber and it was a very rewarding experience. Lots of classes on how all this effects us, then about 1:30 in the chamber. I had been signed off for the ground portion of this before, but there's always something new one picks up.

We learned quickly not to get coffee out of a pot located near the rest rooms! Evidently, proprietary coffee pots in key locations!!

Great instructor that was retire AF. I did ask about decompression sickness and pre-breathing when I flew my Bonanza at up to 25,000 feet. Their opinion is it was pretty rare: like .002 percent and with my relatively slow rate of climb should not be an issue.

Talked about landing an aircraft on water: they said their studies of accidents showed only 14% of planes flip when the land: didn't matter if high or low wing and fixed gear or retract---hummmm.

The chamber was the highlight! Up to 8,000 feet to test then back to the surface to breath oxygen for 30 minutes, then up to 18,000 for a bit, then to FL250 and off with the masks. Of course, some funny stuff after a few minutes. One guy couldn't put blocks through a frame which was a little game designed for two-year-olds! ‘Nother guy couldn't count backwards after a couple numbers. ‘Nother guy couldn't remember where he was going after being told, etc. Lots of fun. The got some of it on camera and a supposed to make a CD available.

In all, very worthwhile.

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Is ATIS getting longer everywhere? Gosh, it's difficult enough to try to pick it up while listening to Approach single pilot IMC when there's a few blips; seems many of there recording have info on can get elsewhere or should have gotten in a brief. Windsxxx ceiling, vis, etc. then all this stuff about runways closed, taxiway thus and such closed from taxiway A to taxiway D and three for four others; non-conforming lights on runway xxx; VFR arrivals call approach at xxx 20 miles out; tower at xxxxx. Geesh.
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So it not just me that is thinking that too!!!!
 
tonycondon said:
Very cool Dave, how did you react?
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Hate to say it Tony, but I didn't push the envelope. When I arrange these, I feel kind o like I responsible for how it goes and really try to make sure it is smooth for everyone else. I think I put the mast on in one-and-one-half minutes when the pulse meter showed 71% saturation. Some of the guys went 5 minutes and got down in the low 60s.

I flew three guys out with me. Coordinated everything and flew back. It wasn't until we all went to dinner that I kind of relaxed and enjoyed things!

Dave
 
smigaldi said:
Not boiled eggs, pickled hard boiled eggs for maximum effect. The winner is that last to go back on O2 wins. This is an important training test. When I was in the AF we would perform the exercises in the cockpit. Once we had a visiting general flying left seat, our AC was in the right seat and I was in my typical spot behind them by the NAVs. When all of a sudden the games begin. I was so embarassed for our crew until the AC on intercom complimented the general on his 'abilities' :vomit:;):)
Click to expand...

That's too funny Scott! Really somethin when we start to realize generals are really just people--huh!\

Dave
 
But you've done it before and know your signs of hypoxia?
I hope.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Hate to say it Tony, but I didn't push the envelope. When I arrange these, I feel kind o like I responsible for how it goes and really try to make sure it is smooth for everyone else. I think I put the mast on in one-and-one-half minutes when the pulse meter showed 71% saturation. Some of the guys went 5 minutes and got down in the low 60s.

I flew three guys out with me. Coordinated everything and flew back. It wasn't until we all went to dinner that I kind of relaxed and enjoyed things!

Dave
Click to expand...

I still wonder if taking the high altitude free breathing to the limit doesn't kill brain cells. I think you were wise not to push it, the intent of the exercise is to learn how you feel at the onset of hypoxia. What happens after you get to the point where you are too stupid to put on a mask seems kinda irrelevant.
 
Dave:

Very sad I missed that event, but you know the rigors "being your own boss" all too well!
 
tonycondon said:
But you've done it before and know your signs of hypoxia?
I hope.
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Yes, Tony. The point of all of this was to stay off oxygen long enough to get three symptoms of hypoxia. Then, if it occurred in flight, you would recognize them. I have been exposed to this before and felt a couple symptoms coming on. With me it is feeling hot and a little dizzy (not really the correct term--just a little disoriented). If I stay off longer, what I first notice is tunnel vision--loss of peripheral vision and awareness and it becomes difficult for me to assimilate information. For instance, I look at an enroute chart and can't figure out where I am quickly, or can't remember a VOR frequency between looking at it and putting it in the Garmin.



I was pretty tired which affects one quite a bit. Didn't want or need to push it. Another guy and I both put our masks on about the same time.



Most of the guys in there hadn't been exposed to high altitude and were feeling these things for the first time!

Best,

Dave
 
lancefisher said:
I still wonder if taking the high altitude free breathing to the limit doesn't kill brain cells. I think you were wise not to push it, the intent of the exercise is to learn how you feel at the onset of hypoxia. What happens after you get to the point where you are too stupid to put on a mask seems kinda irrelevant.
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Ahhh the difference between those with experience (another word for older) and those without (the young bucks). Like the young bull and the old bull looking down at the cows in the pasture. Young one says let's run down and screw one of those cows! Old bull says let's walk down and screw 'em all!!

Yea Lance, I'd much prefer to conserve the killing of my brain cells so I can have a couple margaritas afterward and not create a double deficit. :p

Dave
 
I rode the altitude chamber at Andrews Airforce Base a year ago, man what a blast. I wanted to know my symptoms and exactly how long I could last at 25,000 feet. I lasted two minutes. I get tunnel vision, and loss of motor skills. Which is funny because I couldn't work on motors before going in the chamber, but that's another story. I couldn't do normal cockpit activities, I laughed a lot, and finally began to do the funky chicken. I put my own mask on just as I was about to pass out...I think.
 
What was their recommendation on flying (as the pilot) after the chamber ride? It seems that I remember something about waiting 12 hours or so? Just curious if they still prescribe this information.
 
Seems to me when I did this a few years ago, they said you could fly home as long as you stayed below 8000 feet.
 
Ron Levy said:
Seems to me when I did this a few years ago, they said you could fly home as long as you stayed below 8000 feet.
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That was still the policy when I did it last year in COS.
 
Yes, that was their recommendation, and since my cabin pressure was under that, we did comply :yes:

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Yes, that was their recommendation, and since my cabin pressure was under that, we did comply
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I would not go above 8000 MSL even in a pressurized plane right after the chamber ride because if you lost cabin pressure at altitude, you could be in serious physiological trouble before you could get back down below 8K.
 
The actual advise was to stay at 8,000 or less in an unpressurized plane and to keep cabin altitude at 8,000 or less in a pressurized plane. Pretty unrealistic to tell the guys in King Airs, Lears and Citations not to go above 8,000 (like they'd listen anyway).

These new fangled pressurization systems in planes are pretty undependable, I know, but like auto pilots and some other unreliable gizmos, we just can't seem to stop people from using 'em ;)

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
The actual advise was to stay at 8,000 or less in an unpressurized plane and to keep cabin altitude at 8,000 or less in a pressurized plane. Pretty unrealistic to tell the guys in King Airs, Lears and Citations not to go above 8,000 (like they'd listen anyway).
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Well, it wouldn't be unrealistic to tell them to wait until morning to fly home. In any event, I'd be uncomfortable doing it, especially without at least one crewmember who hadn't made the chamber ride.
 
Okay, that all makes sense. Talk about some serious problems in you did have a pressurization problem, ouch. I seem to remember this advice now that you all mention it, I think the 12 hour advice was to those flying pressurized planes. Did you tend to see a lot of engineers at the chamber, military contractors are required to do one chamber ride a year if they are flying. Pretty interesting stuff they had to say, I had one engineer working on the F-22 and one on some new comm system on the C-130J.
 
Our trip was set up for members of our flying club; we had over 20 signed up which is all the chamber could hold where we were. They could accomodate another group since we were only in there about an hour in the afternoon. It was a great program for our group.

Best,

Dave
 
As a follow up to this post, I would like to list the CDs that are available to pilots. The Aeromedical Education Division is where these are made available. One can call 405.954.4398 and ask how to obtain them.
They provided our flying club with the following free CDs:

1. Acceleration in Aviation; Heat Exposure; Noise and Vibration; Pilot Fatigue and Vision.

2. Self Imposted Stress; Fit for Flight; Motion Sickness; Vestibular Disorientation, Visual Illusions, Ups and Downs of Cabin Pressure.

3. Coldland Survival; Hotland Survival; Survival Medicine; Surviving on Open Water.

4. Physics of Atmosphere; Respiration and Circulation; Hypoxia; Trapped Gasses; Altitude-induced decompression sickness; General Aviation Oxygen Equipment.

5. Survivor Signaling; Survival kits, Rafts, and assessories; Tropical Survival; Will to survive.

Find something that can help you and call them.

Best,

Dave
 
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