Odd request from ATC... "Remain clear of Miramar's Class Delta"

robertb

robertb

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robertb
We were flying back to our home airport Gillespie Field the other day (KSEE) and were receiving flight following. As we were going from OCN VOR direct to KSEE with a Class Bravo clearance, ATC said, "964AF, Remain clear of Miramar's Class Delta". Well, that's when I got confused. I asked the controller what is the ceiling of their class delta. He replied with, "Remain at least 8 miles away from Miramar". I did and all was good. But as Miramar (KNKX) is Class B to the surface, I am thinking he meant something other than what he said.

All was fine with the flight and I was just curious if anyone here has thoughts on what was being requested of us.
 
Hmm, chart doesn't seem to depict Class D for Miramar. But the Class B is Surface to 10000. Just south it is Surface to 3200 then 4800 - 10000.

upload_2023-5-17_17-39-40.png
 
It may be Class D airspace but not marked since the higher level airspace rules apply. But it's "owned" by tower rather than approach. Even towers in Class E own their airspace. 91.127(c)
 
The airspace around here is loads of fun
 
robertb said:
We were flying back to our home airport Gillespie Field the other day (KSEE) and were receiving flight following. As we were going from OCN VOR direct to KSEE with a Class Bravo clearance, ATC said, "964AF, Remain clear of Miramar's Class Delta". Well, that's when I got confused. I asked the controller what is the ceiling of their class delta. He replied with, "Remain at least 8 miles away from Miramar". I did and all was good. But as Miramar (KNKX) is Class B to the surface, I am thinking he meant something other than what he said.

All was fine with the flight and I was just curious if anyone here has thoughts on what was being requested of us.
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Controller had a brain fart. I hope. Wouldn’t be good if he just didn’t know better.
 
robertb said:
We were flying back to our home airport Gillespie Field the other day (KSEE) and were receiving flight following. As we were going from OCN VOR direct to KSEE with a Class Bravo clearance, ATC said, "964AF, Remain clear of Miramar's Class Delta". Well, that's when I got confused. I asked the controller what is the ceiling of their class delta. He replied with, "Remain at least 8 miles away from Miramar". I did and all was good. But as Miramar (KNKX) is Class B to the surface, I am thinking he meant something other than what he said.

All was fine with the flight and I was just curious if anyone here has thoughts on what was being requested of us.
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Could he have meant to say KMYF (Montgomery's Class Delta)? You were already cleared into Bravo. Depending on your choice of terrain avoidance and altitude maybe they were just making sure you didn't clip KMYF delta.
 
szwinger said:
Could he have meant to say KMYF (Montgomery's Class Delta)? You were already cleared into Bravo. Depending on your choice of terrain avoidance and altitude maybe they were just making sure you didn't clip KMYF delta.
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Not too likely. He was pretty clear about Miramar and I suspect my query would have made him correct himself. I suspect he wanted to keep me away from Miramar as he was working some of those guys using "Top Gun" as their call signs. Some folks get special treatment and I ain't one of them. ;)

Actually, SoCal has always treated us wonderfully and lets us cut the bravo all the time to get back home.
 
luvflyin said:
Controller had a brain fart. I hope. Wouldn’t be good if he just didn’t know better.
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I don't know the boundary between SoCal's turf and when the Miramar tower takes over. I suspect that was the boundary he didn't want to me cross. But, I have no idea where the tower takes over control of the airspace. Next time I'm near a TraCon controller, I'll have to ask them.
 
robertb said:
I don't know the boundary between SoCal's turf and when the Miramar tower takes over. I suspect that was the boundary he didn't want to me cross. But, I have no idea where the tower takes over control of the airspace. Next time I'm near a TraCon controller, I'll have to ask them.
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If you do, let us know. I’m pretty sure Tower works the Surface Area up to 3000. There’s a thing called the Miramar Transition used going in and out of MYF to and from the North. Departing 28 you do a left 270 over the airport, the switch you to Miramar Tower who gives you the Clearance. The have you fly right over NKX Northbound. Coming back you call Miramar Tower near Black Mountain VPSBM. They give you the Clearance, flying over NKX again and want you at 2900 if I remember right. They give you to MYF Tower who has you fly overhead and enter downwind to 28. I don’t remember the exact altitudes they use for all this. But I’m pretty sure you’ll find out Approach delegates 3000 and below to the Tower. @Tantalum , help us out here.
 
luvflyin said:
If you do, let us know. I’m pretty sure Tower works the Surface Area up to 3000. There’s a thing called the Miramar Transition used going in and out of MYF to and from the North. Departing 28 you do a left 270 over the airport, the switch you to Miramar Tower who gives you the Clearance. The have you fly right over NKX Northbound. Coming back you call Miramar Tower near Black Mountain VPSBM. They give you the Clearance, flying over NKX again and want you at 2900 if I remember right. They give you to MYF Tower who has you fly overhead and enter downwind to 28. I don’t remember the exact altitudes they use for all this. But I’m pretty sure you’ll find out Approach delegates 3000 and below to the Tower. @Tantalum , help us out here.
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That’s exactly how I flew it when I was there as well. I remember the transition down I-15 talking to tower and then when clear of 24L they’d switch us to Montgomery.

When I was at NKX I know we had some sort of surface area that was required to be coordinated by SOCAL. Off hand I can’t remember the dimensions though. Long time ago and I was GCA so I can’t be held responsible for such things. What’s funny is, my name is on a plaque in the tower and I never even was qual’d on any positions in it. :D
IMG_3200.jpeg
 
robertb said:
We were flying back to our home airport Gillespie Field the other day (KSEE) and were receiving flight following. As we were going from OCN VOR direct to KSEE with a Class Bravo clearance, ATC said, "964AF, Remain clear of Miramar's Class Delta". Well, that's when I got confused. I asked the controller what is the ceiling of their class delta. He replied with, "Remain at least 8 miles away from Miramar". I did and all was good. But as Miramar (KNKX) is Class B to the surface, I am thinking he meant something other than what he said.

All was fine with the flight and I was just curious if anyone here has thoughts on what was being requested of us.
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The 8 miles is confusing to me, a Class D is normally less than 5 nm.
 
Clip4 said:
The 8 miles is confusing to me, a Class D is normally less than 5 nm.
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Typical for B and C Surface Areas also. But some of them have some pretty odd shapes. This one is not a D. It's an odd shaped B, roughly about 10 miles by 6 miles The Controller seems to have just misspoken about a D
 
Velocity173 said:
That’s exactly how I flew it when I was there as well. I remember the transition down I-15 talking to tower and then when clear of 24L they’d switch us to Montgomery.

When I was at NKX I know we had some sort of surface area that was required to be coordinated by SOCAL. Off hand I can’t remember the dimensions though. Long time ago and I was GCA so I can’t be held responsible for such things. What’s funny is, my name is on a plaque in the tower and I never even was qual’d on any positions in it. :D
View attachment 117385
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There aren't any Crabs on that list. I'm pretty sure there are some there now. Were there any when you were there?
 
luvflyin said:
There aren't any Crabs on that list. I'm pretty sure there are some there now. Were there any when you were there?
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Nope. They started the transition in 96 and were all gone in 98. At least when I got there in Oct 98 they were gone. Some of the Marines I worked with got to do some ACLS approaches before the Navy left. We still had the scope in the radar room when I was there but it wasn’t in use any longer.
 
Velocity173 said:
Nope. They started the transition in 96 and were all gone in 98. At least when I got there in Oct 98 they were gone. Some of the Marines I worked with got to do some ACLS approaches before the Navy left. We still had the scope in the radar room when I was there but it wasn’t in use any longer.
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By Crabs I meant Civilian DOD Controllers. That's what we called them when I was at North Island. I was a Crab at Lemoore.
 
luvflyin said:
By Crabs I meant Civilian DOD Controllers. That's what we called them when I was at North Island. I was a Crab at Lemoore.
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Oh I thought you were referring to the Navy guys. There’s a few DoD civs on there (Mr). Some AC1s on there as well but they weren’t there when I showed up. Old tower closed a few weeks after I checked in.
IMG_8213.jpeg
 
luvflyin said:
If you do, let us know. I’m pretty sure Tower works the Surface Area up to 3000. There’s a thing called the Miramar Transition used going in and out of MYF to and from the North. Departing 28 you do a left 270 over the airport, the switch you to Miramar Tower who gives you the Clearance. The have you fly right over NKX Northbound. Coming back you call Miramar Tower near Black Mountain VPSBM. They give you the Clearance, flying over NKX again and want you at 2900 if I remember right. They give you to MYF Tower who has you fly overhead and enter downwind to 28. I don’t remember the exact altitudes they use for all this. But I’m pretty sure you’ll find out Approach delegates 3000 and below to the Tower. @Tantalum , help us out here.
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that's a fun one for sure! The altitudes sound about right, I usually depart west over the water head up the coast towards CARIF then proceed to wherever it is I want to go. That view is hard to beat. The way home back to MYF I'm usually ready to get home so the Black Mountain call up for FOSS tower and the transition south to MYF is fun. It's a real treat for new passengers

I grew up flying around Boston, the air space complexities around here really blew my mind when I started flying here in 2010
 
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