Now is the critical time to oppose ATC privatization

I sent a missive to my Congresscritter, and this is what I got back:

As you know, on June 5, 2017, President Trump announced his support of moving control of the ATC from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to a self-financing, non-profit, and independent entity. In his announcement speech, the President pointed to several other nations that have successfully modernized their air traffic control through non-government organizations, such as Canada. President Trump believes that privatizing the ATC will allow for cheaper, faster, and safer air travel while also allowing the FAA to focus more on safety and security.

You may be interested to know on June 22, 2017, Congressman Bill Shuster (R-PA) introduced H.R. 2997, the 21st Century AIRR Act. This legislation is a six-year reauthorization of the FAA. The bill would also establish an independent, not-for-profit corporation, outside of the federal government, to modernize and provide U.S. air traffic control services. In his statement, the President declared his support for this specific bill. This bill was referred to the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. While I am not a member of this committee, I will certainly keep your views in mind should this legislation come before the full U.S. House of Representatives for a vote.

Groups like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and Airlines for America support this proposal, while groups such as the National Business Aviation Association have expressed their opposition to this policy change. I believe that we must give careful consideration to how our future air traffic control system is funded. As Congress continues to debate this issue, we must strive to create a system that is fair and keeps passengers and their safety in mind.

Thank you again for your sharing your views on this issue. Please don't hesitate to contact me if I may be of additional assistance in the future.
​
Haven't heard back from either Senator. There was a time I wouldn't have believed they'd do something this foolish, but recent evens have changed my outlook considerably.
 
steingar said:
I sent a missive to my Congresscritter, and this is what I got back:

As you know, on June 5, 2017, President Trump announced his support of moving control of the ATC from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to a self-financing, non-profit, and independent entity. In his announcement speech, the President pointed to several other nations that have successfully modernized their air traffic control through non-government organizations, such as Canada. President Trump believes that privatizing the ATC will allow for cheaper, faster, and safer air travel while also allowing the FAA to focus more on safety and security.

You may be interested to know on June 22, 2017, Congressman Bill Shuster (R-PA) introduced H.R. 2997, the 21st Century AIRR Act. This legislation is a six-year reauthorization of the FAA. The bill would also establish an independent, not-for-profit corporation, outside of the federal government, to modernize and provide U.S. air traffic control services. In his statement, the President declared his support for this specific bill. This bill was referred to the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. While I am not a member of this committee, I will certainly keep your views in mind should this legislation come before the full U.S. House of Representatives for a vote.

Groups like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and Airlines for America support this proposal, while groups such as the National Business Aviation Association have expressed their opposition to this policy change. I believe that we must give careful consideration to how our future air traffic control system is funded. As Congress continues to debate this issue, we must strive to create a system that is fair and keeps passengers and their safety in mind.

Thank you again for your sharing your views on this issue. Please don't hesitate to contact me if I may be of additional assistance in the future.
​
Haven't heard back from either Senator. There was a time I wouldn't have believed they'd do something this foolish, but recent evens have changed my outlook considerably.
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"...we must strive to create a system that is fair and keeps passengers and their safety in mind."

I think that statement tells you all you need to know about his position. No concern at all expressed for poor private flyers.
 
...get the fucin Govt out of aviation...sorry ass employees, over paid and takes 20 to land plane..PRIVATISE NOW!!!


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cweinacker said:
...get the fucin Govt out of aviation...sorry ass employees, over paid and takes 20 to land plane..PRIVATISE NOW!!!


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Pray tell, why will privatization be beneficial? Please provide details on economics and safety to support your claims, and cite your sources.
 
paflyer said:
"...we must strive to create a system that is fair and keeps passengers and their safety in mind."

I think that statement tells you all you need to know about his position. No concern at all expressed for poor private flyers.
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The issue really isn't GA vs Airlines (altho at the heart, it's the airlines wanting control...) The key argument is safety. No other country (or multiple of countries) have the quantity of flights per day nor the safety statistics nor the economic impact as the US.

Call your Rep today. Shuster is trying to bring this to the floor by Monday July 17, so call today. Not email. Phone calls.
 
murphey said:
The issue really isn't GA vs Airlines (altho at the heart, it's the airlines wanting control...) The key argument is safety. No other country (or multiple of countries) have the quantity of flights per day nor the safety statistics nor the economic impact as the US....
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This is a key point. Although the current bill prohibits GA user fees, the issue remains that safety would suffer greatly in the transition. People who were flying when Flight Service was privatized know what a zoo that was for the first couple of years. Privatizing ATC would be a MUCH bigger job, and much more safety-critical. Even after the transition and learning curve were complete, no one has come up with real-world evidence that privatized ATC works better. It would be an experiment based on nothing more than some people's ideological dogma, with GA and airline passengers as the guinea pigs.
 
I'm ok with privatization. It's not like the government has done much with the reins and a private company will likely make some much needed improvements that the government is hamstrung to implement
 
Don't add user fees and fine with me. But that's a pipe dream. Will add costs to us GA guys for sure
 
I do enjoy the CPDLC when flying in Canada and Europe at work. It definitely cuts down on frequency congestion and having routings directly linked to your FMS is also safer. However, I certainly don't want the user fees that would come with it either. It's simple economics though - the airline lobbies are massive compared to anything GA can field and in our form of government the bigger pocketbooks win.

It's inevitable.
 
Art VanDelay said:
I do enjoy the CPDLC when flying in Canada and Europe at work. It definitely cuts down on frequency congestion and having routings directly linked to your FMS is also safer. However, I certainly don't want the user fees that would come with it either. It's simple economics though - the airline lobbies are massive compared to anything GA can field and in our form of government the bigger pocketbooks win.

It's inevitable.
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Those same factors have existed for many years, and yet it still hasn't happened. What's different this time?
 
...here is why privatization will work...TECHNOLOGY...its here to totally illuminate ATC-FAA...Milkman no longer delivers milk...but EAA/FAA would like for you to Think So...reminds me of AT&T asking why I disconnected my landline...dah!!!


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cweinacker said:
...here is why privatization will work...TECHNOLOGY...its here to totally illuminate ATC-FAA...Milkman no longer delivers milk...but EAA/FAA would like for you to Think So...reminds me of AT&T asking why I disconnected my landline...dah!!!


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Why would the EAA want you to think so? They're all about the incorporation of the latest technology prior to it being used in certified aircraft.
 
Palmpilot said:
This is a key point. Although the current bill prohibits GA user fees, the issue remains that safety would suffer greatly in the transition. People who were flying when Flight Service was privatized know what a zoo that was for the first couple of years. Privatizing ATC would be a MUCH bigger job, and much more safety-critical. Even after the transition and learning curve were complete, no one has come up with real-world evidence that privatized ATC works better. It would be an experiment based on nothing more than some people's ideological dogma, with GA and airline passengers as the guinea pigs.
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And no one has identified any current problems in ATC that would be corrected by privatization.
 
SkyHog said:
I'm ok with privatization. It's not like the government has done much with the reins and a private company will likely make some much needed improvements that the government is hamstrung to implement
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What are the much needed improvements in ATC that the government is hamstrung to implement?
 
cweinacker said:
...here is why privatization will work...TECHNOLOGY...its here to totally illuminate ATC-FAA...Milkman no longer delivers milk...but EAA/FAA would like for you to Think So...reminds me of AT&T asking why I disconnected my landline...dah!!!
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So what is this TECHNOLOGY possible only with privatization and why do we need it?

BTW, milkmen still deliver milk.
 
I think it is risky to privatize, especially all at once. I'm all for the free market, but the reason I'm for it is the beneficial result of competition is improved quality. But how would this privatization be done? Shall we create five or six individual companies? Who will create them? What about military controllers? Do they get fired and replaced with company controllers?

I would suggest if privatization is what one wants, transition slowly.
 
Palmpilot said:
Those same factors have existed for many years, and yet it still hasn't happened. What's different this time?
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We haven't had CPDLC for that long and we certainly haven't had Radius to Fix RNAV approaches for that long either. This is new stuff and we're not gonna see more of it anytime soon here in the USA if we have to depend upon the egregiously entrenched bureaucracy of the FAA to bring it to us.

Moreover look at the current administration and more importantly look at the people that voted them into office. They both love even the mere mention of dismantling ANYTHING run by the government. They salivate at the notion of resting power from the government and kicking the government employees to the curb. It is an immensely popular theme right now.

Privatization is inevitable.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Moreover look at the current administration and more importantly look at the people that voted them into office. They both love even the mere mention of dismantling ANYTHING run by the government. They salivate at the notion of resting power from the government and kicking the government employees to the curb. It is an immensely popular theme right now.
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I agree with it, and I'm one of those who voted them into office. (-SHOCK-! I'm a college professor with a doctorate, on the east coast! How could I betray the unwritten laws of my profession?!)

Have you ever worked in government? I have, and so have other family members. Hover your mouse over the word "government" and click on "synonyms" and find the word "inefficient behemoth."

I think, however, that it has to be done gradually, purposefully, and with an honest eye to become more efficient, competent, and competitive.
 
murphey said:
Pray tell, why will privatization be beneficial?
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Because any bureaucracy endeavors to capture a vital function, then hold it hostage whenever budget is discussed. In case of FAA, it's the ATC. As soon as a budget reduction gets on the agenda, FAA holds a knife to ATC's necks and says "one wrong budget line and the tower gets it". But the country is bankrupt. The only way to cut FAA is to divorce it from ATC first.

murphey said:
Please provide details on economics and safety to support your claims, and cite your sources.
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LOL
 
cweinacker said:
...here is why privatization will work...TECHNOLOGY...its here to totally illuminate ATC-FAA...Milkman no longer delivers milk...but EAA/FAA would like for you to Think So...reminds me of AT&T asking why I disconnected my landline...dah!!!


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US Postal Service.
Amtrak.
The costs and bonuses paid to the many contracting companies (beltway bandits) to the many DOD and other Federal departments even when products are behind schedule, over budget and often failures.

Next contestant, please.
 
A major problem is Congress fiddle farts around with funding every damn year. The FAA operates on an extremely erratic funding profile and never knows how much they will have until half the year has past at best. Congress hasn't passed a funding bill on time since the dinosaurs roamed the earth. That simple fact coupled with the bureaucracy of the FAA is the reason progress is glacial.

If the system is truly privatized and funding is taken away from Congress (which has a probability of near zero), mondernization will likely happen a great deal faster. Since Congress will still meddle in the funding, the only thing they really give a flying **** about, things will actually get worse.

Unless it is truly privatized with the ability to raise revenue separate from the log rolling in the Congressional Budget process, we'll have the worst of all worlds, just like the Post Office and Amtrak who are prohibited from running their businesses efficiently by Congress, e.g. Requiring by law, Long haul money losing trains and Saturday mail delivery.

Cheers
 
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cweinacker said:
...here is why privatization will work...TECHNOLOGY...its here to totally illuminate ATC-FAA...Milkman no longer delivers milk...but EAA/FAA would like for you to Think So...reminds me of AT&T asking why I disconnected my landline...dah!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I guess you don't have much beyond an Eight Grade education. :D. Plenty of milkmen still deliver fresh milk all across America, every day. Just because you choose to buy your pasteurized and homogenized commercially packaged cow juice from the grocery store doesn't lend much credibility to anything you have to blabber about here. Good day to you.
 
To resurrect the thread...

Has anyone read, in simple terms so an idiot like me can understand, what ATC reform really entails? Every thing I've read about it is in generalities with no specifics on what the "reform" actually entails. I understand Shuster's bill "exempts" GA and corporate jets from the user fees and will continue to collect through the fuel taxes. Will these taxes increase astronomically just because we're exempt? Are there any controls on these taxes? Will GA play second fiddle to commercial air travel (like this isn't already happening at the big airports) all over the United States? Will the reform enable the ability for controllers to deny services just because we are exempt from paying into the system? Does the reform rely for example, on more GPS approaches rather than vectoring 30 miles or so from the airport for an ILS?

I have a lot of questions and I'm not finding specific answers. I hope I'm not alone.
 
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steingar said:
I sent a missive to my Congresscritter, and this is what I got back:

As you know, on June 5, 2017, President Trump announced his support of moving control of the ATC from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to a self-financing, non-profit, and independent entity. In his announcement speech, the President pointed to several other nations that have successfully modernized their air traffic control through non-government organizations, such as Canada. President Trump believes that privatizing the ATC will allow for cheaper, faster, and safer air travel while also allowing the FAA to focus more on safety and security.

You may be interested to know on June 22, 2017, Congressman Bill Shuster (R-PA) introduced H.R. 2997, the 21st Century AIRR Act. This legislation is a six-year reauthorization of the FAA. The bill would also establish an independent, not-for-profit corporation, outside of the federal government, to modernize and provide U.S. air traffic control services. In his statement, the President declared his support for this specific bill. This bill was referred to the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. While I am not a member of this committee, I will certainly keep your views in mind should this legislation come before the full U.S. House of Representatives for a vote.

Groups like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and Airlines for America support this proposal, while groups such as the National Business Aviation Association have expressed their opposition to this policy change. I believe that we must give careful consideration to how our future air traffic control system is funded. As Congress continues to debate this issue, we must strive to create a system that is fair and keeps passengers and their safety in mind.

Thank you again for your sharing your views on this issue. Please don't hesitate to contact me if I may be of additional assistance in the future.
​
Haven't heard back from either Senator. There was a time I wouldn't have believed they'd do something this foolish, but recent evens have changed my outlook considerably.
Click to expand...

Kinda funny....I emailed all my reps as well and got an identical response; word-for-word.....gotta love the generic F-you, I'm gonna do what I want response that is typical nowadays.....


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Privatization will NOT benefit general aviation in any way, shape or form. It would be the beginning of the graveyard spiral.
 
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