Not /G - what do you do?

flyersfan31

flyersfan31

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Freiburgfan31
I got to thinking today.

When I call for clearance at home (non-towered field), they usually give me a route about 90% different from filed. They ask how long I need 'til I launch, I say 5 minutes, long enough to check the chart and program their assigned route into the ol' G430. They either give me a clearance void time or say call back when you're #1 to go. New technology is a wonderful thing.

But what if I didn't have the 430 (or a KNS80 RNAV) or it wasn't working? What those of you who don't file /G do?

Would you ask for 10-15 minutes, figure out all the VORs/NDBs and associated radials, and ginn up a flight log before launching? Ask for 2 minutes and just dial up the first 2 vors/navaids on Nav1/Nav2, expecting to do further map-reading/planning enroute?

Just curious.
 
10 to 15 minutes works for me.
Question???
Why do they always give you a different route than filed though?
Just curious

Mark B
 
ATC is a mysterious place. I try my best -- file TEC routes if avail, preferred routes, or file the last routing I received if that makes sense. Still, my flight log invariably gets torn up (figuratively speaking) as soon as I call them for clearance.

Easy enough to deal with on a GPS. It would be more of a hassle, I think, without the GPS.
 
All you need is the first one or two legs of the plan to get going and then you can figure the rest in the air. Unless your flight planned speed is mach#.95 and the distance very short!
Yes you are supposed to know if you can accept a given clearance, but for the most part you can negotiate any changes in the air.
 
id roger Daves feeling. At least around here, the VORs are spread out pretty far, so youd have plenty of time to figure out your next radial, etc. once airborne, and to negotiate any changes with ATC
 
Somewhere in the middle. The big thing for me is to check that the route is one I can accept.

On my very first IFR flight, two days after getting my IR, I filed from Ypsilanti MI to Rochester NY, via the airways through Canada to avoid going over the middle of Lake Erie in a single. Clearance read me a "full route clearance." I said, "Stand by," and started tracing the route on the L-chart. Sure enough, it was the preferred route over Lake Erie. "Willow Run Ground, Cessna 35Q, unable that route, negative sea survival equipment." After a few minutes of negotiation, I got the route I'd originally filed.

So, if I get a different route, I'm not that concerned with filling out a full flight log, but I do want to know that I can fly the route -- no overwater issues, no legs I need a GPS to fly (if I don't have /G), not significantly longer than the original (fuel issues), etc. However, if you feel you need that flight log to fly IFR safely, by all means take the time to fill out a new one for that route -- better to be looking stuff up in the run-up area than at 7000 feet while trying to fly the plane.
 
me experience really doesnt count on this subject anyway. I have only had my filed route amended once, and that was when I was going into Arlington, TX last year, and we were expecting it as we had not filed an arrival procedure. Every time ive ever flown IFR in the midwest (not around chicago) I have been cleared as filed and everything was always hunky dory.
 
I would add that if you dig out the Low Altitude Preferred IFR Routes and/or TEC routes from the A/FD (or the Enroute pages of the Jepp book), and file them, you will almost certainly be "cleared as filed." Note that you need not be going between the published terminals to file those routes -- you can almost always join them at either end or in the middle. For example, heading northeast, I can (from SBY) join in mid-stream a route that starts in Norfolk VA, or pick up near ACY a route that starts in Atlantic City NJ.
 
markb5900 said:
10 to 15 minutes works for me.
Question???
Why do they always give you a different route than filed though?
Just curious

Mark B
Click to expand...

Because he's a Flyers Fan. :rofl:
 
I'm with Ron - when they give me a new routing as part of my original clearance I'll make sure I understand and accept the routing on a paper chart before I go anywhere or touch the black boxes. I usually do the readback to make sure that *I* got it right, then either tell them to stand by for acceptance (if on the phone) or call them back and negotiate if I have a problem (on the radio).

As for programming the GPS - I get origin and destination in the box plus the first two or three waypoints before takeoff. I enter the rest of the waypoints after I'm airborne and settled down in cruise. And I always check the flight plan in the box against either my preplanned log or the chart. Those things can send you some interesting places if you mis-program them.

Regards,
Joe
 
Andrew: Wings is kind of unique at least amongst the few airports I have flow into and out of.
First you can't reach Philly APP on the radio from the ground. Just can't do it. So ya have to call. The way I do it is I file my flight plan then ( after a bit ) I call Philly App on the land line in the Terminal and ask for a 'HOLD FOR RELEASE CLEARANCE'. Then if the route is changed I have my low alt enroute chart right there lay it out on the table quickly get the new route eyeballed and get the identifiers and intersections, head out to the plane fire it up ( did the preflight before I called) Taxi out and pull off in the turn-around and call Philly APP on my cell and tell them N5322L looking for our release IFR KLOM to KEZF # 2 for departure RWY 24. They put me on hold then get back on give me my release time and clearance void time and I'm off.

Now as for TEC routes ,sometimes out of Wings they don't really mean that much. I have been told by some that since we are under PHLs Bravo shelf it litterally depends on which way the wind blows on the route you get.

Going Northeast you will either get RBV V276 DIXIE V16 JFK or they could send you the western route ETX or FJC on up to Hougonot and then east

Going west they could send you to PTW or down to MXE

Going South they are either gonna give you the western side of the ADIZ ( usually get that southbound) or the eastern shore ( northbound) but I have gotten each going each way.
 
AdamZ said:
Going South they are either gonna give you the western side of the ADIZ ( usually get that southbound) or the eastern shore ( northbound) but I have gotten each going each way.
Click to expand...

Maybe some of you northeasterners can help me with this one. This east side northbound and west side southbound has been my experience as well regardless of what was filed and what I was cleared for when leaving Atlanta area (northbound).

My question is how far west of the DC ADIZ would I have to file to actually be able to fly north(east) bound on the west side? (Let's say my destination is KTEB, for sake of the argument.) What I'm trying to avoid is the zig-zag VOR to VOR routing and even more the low altitudes they make you fly on the east side.
 
Lance F said:
Maybe some of you northeasterners can help me with this one. This east side northbound and west side southbound has been my experience as well regardless of what was filed and what I was cleared for when leaving Atlanta area (northbound).

My question is how far west of the DC ADIZ would I have to file to actually be able to fly north(east) bound on the west side? (Let's say my destination is KTEB, for sake of the argument.) What I'm trying to avoid is the zig-zag VOR to VOR routing and even more the low altitudes they make you fly on the east side.
Click to expand...
Just did that, Lance. Wilkes-Barre and Scranton, Harrrisburg are where they're goonna put you.
 
bbchien said:
Just did that, Lance. Wilkes-Barre and Scranton, Harrrisburg are where they're goonna put you.
Click to expand...
I can back this one up, too. Look at the preferred routes. You are going up to CFB. Sigh. Keep requesting direct. Eventually you will get it, but you have to pass Wilkes-Barre.
 
Well Lance I think the best your gonna get is upto MRB then V143 through LRP and on to PTW then V403 to SBJ and into TEB. By the way for NYC consider Linden rather than TEB.

I do think you'll get less hassle going north on the east side however. If your in the area in the late afternoon or evening the west side plays havoc with arrivals into The DC and Baltimore airports
 
AdamZ said:
Well Lance I think the best your gonna get is upto MRB then V143 through LRP and on to PTW then V403 to SBJ and into TEB. By the way for NYC consider Linden rather than TEB.
Click to expand...
Thanks all for the ideas. BTW, I plan NEVER to go to KTEB again. $7.00 100LL tells me loud and clear they don't want me. Actally last time up there I went to KCDW (Essex County) and that wasn't too bad.
BTW, if I go via Wilkes-Barre, will they let me stay high (say 8 to 10K) until until reasonably close to destination?
 
Don't know why the wouldn't Lance. I suppose you can request it. As long as it does not interfere with arrivals to LGA, EWR and JFK there would be no reason not to. Plus I have found NY App to be incredibly accomodating and friendly. If you over the Philly area be sure and stop by KLOM and we'll grab some chow or at least a coffee.
 
sorry but i gotta ask a dumb question...Im not an IR pilot either..

What does /G mean....
im gonna take a wild guess but does that mean you are equipped with GPS??

Ant
 
180mph - correct, /g means IFR certified GPS on board.
 
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