Not a fan of Kitplanes magazine

iflyforfun

iflyforfun

Pre-takeoff checklist
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iflyforfun
Lots of smart people on the board. Can someone possibly give me a reason that a company would charge MORE for a digital edition of their magazine? Kitplanes charges $16 for print magazine and $20 a year for their digital edition. It seems to me that their costs are reduced by removing the print run. I would also think it possible that ad revenues could be maintained (think of AOPA magazine that includes all regular adds) or maybe even improved with the addition of multi-media. Anyway, Kitplanes has lost a 20 year customer. It is not the money, it is the principle. Below is my e-mail to Kitplanes ... I'll let you know if I hear back.


You have lost me as a customer, maybe forever. I have been a print magazine subscriber for around 20 years. I recently moved overseas and planned to convert to the digital edition. You actually try to charge more for a digital edition than you do for a print subscription … this makes no sense at all. The extra $5 means nothing to me from a financial perspective. What it really means to me is that you, as a business, are perfectly content to mistreat your customers. I have no option for the print edition, so you will try to extract an extra few dollars. Again, in my income bracket $5 is nothing, but I will not do business with you based on this poor business practice. Apparently, you have more business than you need and losing long-term and loyal customers is something you are perfectly content to do. I will be posting this to Pilots of America and will be happy to post any response you might have.
 
Just as bad, I went by the booth hawking the magazine at Oshkosh, thinking there would be an attractive rate. I swear it was $38/2 years, which is... $6 higher than the rate listed on their website.

Strange marketing approach.

But, back to the digital pricing issue - most books on Kindle are more expensive than the price Wally World or Target charge for the paperback. Makes zero sense to me that market forces haven't taken those prices down.
 
iflyforfun said:
Lots of smart people on the board. Can someone possibly give me a reason that a company would charge MORE for a digital edition of their magazine? Kitplanes charges $16 for print magazine and $20 a year for their digital edition. It seems to me that their costs are reduced by removing the print run. I would also think it possible that ad revenues could be maintained (think of AOPA magazine that includes all regular adds) or maybe even improved with the addition of multi-media. Anyway, Kitplanes has lost a 20 year customer. It is not the money, it is the principle. Below is my e-mail to Kitplanes ... I'll let you know if I hear back.


You have lost me as a customer, maybe forever. I have been a print magazine subscriber for around 20 years. I recently moved overseas and planned to convert to the digital edition. You actually try to charge more for a digital edition than you do for a print subscription … this makes no sense at all. The extra $5 means nothing to me from a financial perspective. What it really means to me is that you, as a business, are perfectly content to mistreat your customers. I have no option for the print edition, so you will try to extract an extra few dollars. Again, in my income bracket $5 is nothing, but I will not do business with you based on this poor business practice. Apparently, you have more business than you need and losing long-term and loyal customers is something you are perfectly content to do. I will be posting this to Pilots of America and will be happy to post any response you might have.
Click to expand...

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:...

I can't wait to read their response...
 
That is odd. I can only assume that someone wasn't paying attention when they set the prices. The print edition gets the digital stuff too, so the prices are inverted.

Were I you, I'd have ordered the print subscription and have the physical copy go to someone's postal address that didn't mind getting a copy and I'd access the digital edition from where ever in the world I was. Win-win. Two people get to read the mag for a cheaper price.
 
kyleb said:
But, back to the digital pricing issue - most books on Kindle are more expensive than the price Wally World or Target charge for the paperback. Makes zero sense to me that market forces haven't taken those prices down.
Click to expand...

You can thank Apple for tha
 
I get the print edition and the digital edition comes for free IIRC.

Send the print copy to a school of your choice.

Cheers
 
A friend of mine who worked in the magazine biz for a long time recently explained this to me. There are a couple of things at play here.

First, their advertisement rates are based on 'paid circulation'. Paid circulation = printed magazines sold individually or mailed to subscribers. As far as he knew (he only retired last year) nobody was counting digital subscribers as 'paid circulation'.

Second, most of the companies who make the software for layout, editing, version control, etc, charge a licensing fee for 'digital delivery'.
 
Mbundy has some interesting points. The new Editor is a pretty cool guy that frequents the Van's AF forum and would probably be glad to explain the facts, and comment on the reasonability of their charges.
 
mbundy said:
Second, most of the companies who make the software for layout, editing, version control, etc, charge a licensing fee for 'digital delivery'.
Click to expand...

True, but think of all the costs that are eliminated by having e-books or magazines. No cost for raw materials, printing, off-quality, packaging, shipping, inventory, obsolescence, etc.
 
Complaining over $5............just kidding:D
 
Jim Logajan said:
Were I you, I'd have ordered the print subscription and have the physical copy go to someone's postal address that didn't mind getting a copy and I'd access the digital edition from where ever in the world I was. Win-win. Two people get to read the mag for a cheaper price.
Click to expand...

Interesting as that is exactly what I do for the Economist. I read the digital on my iPad/iPhone and have the hard copy sent to my Dad. I didn't see anywhere that the print copy gets full digital access. I think for the Economist it is just a few dollars more for both, but it is pretty expensive to begin with and my Dad loves it and has always had a subscription. I figured for a few dollars more I'd take the buy one get one free approach. Didn't see that with Kitplanes.

Oh, and I wrote with a similar complaint a few months ago and they didn't even respond. That is why I put the "I'm telling POA" complaint in the e-mail ... was hoping to get some response from the yahoo's.
 
I think a 5 dollar per year raise is pretty decent, since they are still offering both, I can only assume, that their cost went up. Now they have to be pay for hosting, and the bandwidth to cover users accessing the material, Tech support to take care of the servers and so on and so on.
 
Paul Dye, chief editor is a friend of mine and a huge supporter of experimental aircraft. Paul was a mission controller for NASA until the Space shuttle was grounded. He bought and started the restoration of the RV-1. Paul is very active in EAA, is a very focused individual, built several aircraft, a friend, and a great guy to know. His wife is a very accomplished pilot in her own right.

I suggest if you have a question about subscription rates he would be glad to answer them. He is very proactive.;)
 
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At least they don't have the obnoxious fat man barking at potential customers at Oshkosh anymore. He was so abusive to my wife, that I cancelled my Plane and Pilot subscription. It would take me a lot of convincing of new management to ever go back to either of these pubs.
 
The print was for 10 issues and digital was for 12 issues. So an .80c difference on a yearly rate.

The print sub includes digital. So just order print.

They likely generate 2-3x as much revenue per reader on ads from the print edition - which is why they are pushing people into that route.
 
iflyforfun said:
Lots of smart people on the board. Can someone possibly give me a reason that a company would charge MORE for a digital edition of their magazine? Kitplanes charges $16 for print magazine and $20 a year for their digital edition. It seems to me that their costs are reduced by removing the print run. I would also think it possible that ad revenues could be maintained (think of AOPA magazine that includes all regular adds) or maybe even improved with the addition of multi-media. Anyway, Kitplanes has lost a 20 year customer. It is not the money, it is the principle. Below is my e-mail to Kitplanes ... I'll let you know if I hear back.


You have lost me as a customer, maybe forever. I have been a print magazine subscriber for around 20 years. I recently moved overseas and planned to convert to the digital edition. You actually try to charge more for a digital edition than you do for a print subscription … this makes no sense at all. The extra $5 means nothing to me from a financial perspective. What it really means to me is that you, as a business, are perfectly content to mistreat your customers. I have no option for the print edition, so you will try to extract an extra few dollars. Again, in my income bracket $5 is nothing, but I will not do business with you based on this poor business practice. Apparently, you have more business than you need and losing long-term and loyal customers is something you are perfectly content to do. I will be posting this to Pilots of America and will be happy to post any response you might have.
Click to expand...

Seriously? Is this the hill you want to die on? :dunno:
 
Hello Folks!

This is my first post over here on this forum. My name is Paul Dye, and since March, I have been the Editor in Chief at Kitplanes Magazine. A friend alerted me to this thread, and I thought I'd drop in to this pilot community and see if I could help.

It's always distressing to hear of someone being upset about something in which I am involved - in this case, the magazine. Unfortunately, none of the original poster's e-mails appear to have come in on any of our Kitplanes accounts, so we were unaware of his concerns. This is also why he didn't receive a response. Unfortunate, but we have all had emails flutter off into oblivion.

I am new to the publishing world, having spent 34 years in aerospace flight testing and operations. My job as EIC is to provide the best magazine content I can for our reader. I really don't have any knowledge of the business side of things, and, in fact, was a bit mystified by the pricing system at first. It was finally explained to me that the introductory print price is for ten issues, and the online price is for twelve - and as was pointed out by someone above, the difference "per issue" ends up as a rounding error. All print subscriptions come with complete digital access, so if you sign up for print, you get both.

A couple of us were discussing this very issue at Oshkosh last week, and came up with an interesting idea. If you absolutely don't want a print issue coming to an address of yours, you can still do some good in the world. Send it to a library, or better yet, a school library. You can still retain the online access to read it, perhaps a student will get a chance to be exposed to the world of homebuilding - and if you donate it to a tax-deductible entity, you might be able to write off your subscription on your taxes! (Caution - I am not a tax accountant, so take that thought with a grain of salt, and check with your financial professional).

We are sorry if we lose a reader, and I am sorry to rub someone the wrong way. The pilot community is small already, and we are besieged from outside forces - we can't afford to split up among ourselves. I hope that this at least gives the rest of the community an insight into the facts, and maybe a few copies of the magazine will show up at some libraries. I know I was always thrilled to find a "Flying" or "AOPA Pilot" when I was a kid.

I'll drop in here now and again to see how things are going - thanks for reading.

Paul
 
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Banjo33 said:
My IPad goes EVERYWHERE I do. If you were to touch it, I'd recommend you wash your hands afterward. Lol:rofl:
Click to expand...

You know the funny thing is, I'm using my iPad in the bathroom right now!
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
FWIW, I like the content in Kit Planes.
Click to expand...

Have to say I agree. Just the other day I was thinking, "This is so much better than the EAA rag ... what's happened there is such a shame, I'm glad I've got Kitplanes."

And, I too, have been 'round several times over subscription pricing issues through the years ... the lesson I've learned is that I have to hunt hard to find the best (or even, sometimes, a reasonable deal). I seem to recall an introductory subscription morphing into $30+ to renew. Consequently, I've been an on-again, off-again subscriber.
 
EdFred said:
Use the microfiber towels to clean it off after you are done wiping with it.
Click to expand...
Ed- completely off topic, but what's with the formula for p-toluenesulfonic acid for a user ID?

I'm sure you can find something more corrosive...
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Ed- completely off topic, but what's with the formula for p-toluenesulfonic acid for a user ID?

I'm sure you can find something more corrosive...
Click to expand...

Already answered in another thread. :)
 
Paul,

Welcome to Pilots of America, never read Kit Planes ( more of a plane & pilot guy) but your repsonse seems reasonable, can't say as I understand the pricing structure but thats not my concern, just nice to see a reasoned reply. Pilots are a funny bunch they will get their dander up if you try to replace the romaine lettuce garnish on their $100 hamburger with iceberg, just the way we are I suspect.


Now as to why the hell you cancelled the Space Shuttle Program ........... Just kidding:rofl:
 
I'm definitely a Kitplanes fan... but of course I'm a one time offender with a '10.

Paul, keep it coming! The mag keeps getting better even as I get further away from my build project.
 
Hi Paul!

Welcome to the PoA forums from me as well.

Basically I bought my subscription to Kitplanes initially because of your new job there, as a sign of support as a fellow RV'er/pilot/Texan/whatever.

I'm now very glad I did because the content is much more techie and in tune with building, maintaining and upgrading homebuilt airplanes. Like a couple others said earlier in the thread, I also think it's better than EAA's magazine in that regard.

I know you've asked over on VAF for guest article submissions before... would you be interested in a customer review of the new Sensenich ground adjustable carbon fiber prop on an O-320 engine RV-6?

I love my new one so much I can't shut up about it... :D
 
kyleb said:
Just as bad, I went by the booth hawking the magazine at Oshkosh, thinking there would be an attractive rate. I swear it was $38/2 years, which is... $6 higher than the rate listed on their website.

Strange marketing approach.
Click to expand...

Was it the Kitplanes booth, or someone else's? I know there are magazine sales companies that exhibit there, and they're likely charging higher rates...
 
iflyforfun said:
Yeah, yeah, I know ... but it is the principal of the thing :^)
Click to expand...

I had an editor at Kitplanes many, many years ago that thought he was the world's best proofreader. We had a bet ... $5 for each article I wrote with a spelling/grammar error I made versus $5 for each error he corrected that WASN'T an error.

I'm still $5 ahead for my principle he changed to a principal. :goofy:

Jim
KP author for a long, long time
 
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I never have understood posting a on an internet forum something negative about a product or service unless you have talked to the people who provide that product or service. :no:

Thanks for the response Paul. :cheers:
 
Geico266 said:
I never have understood posting a on an internet forum something negative about a product or service unless you have talked to the people who provide that product or service. :no:

Thanks for the response Paul. :cheers:
Click to expand...

I agree, why not reach out to the vendor first? That is what I did about 2 months ago and got no response. Needed my Kitplanes fix, checked back in and still saw what I thought was a stupid pricing structure. Sent them a SECOND e-mail asking why they would do this and TOLD them I was posting to POA hoping to get a response.

So, one the SECOND effort, I get a response, but only on POA with no response to my e-mail.

It was also a pretty good response.

EDIT: I checked back and it wasn't two months ago, it was last November 22 that I e-mailed them. And, they did get back to me that time, they told me they would check with their "pricing department" and get back to me. They didn't ever follow up.
 
Ironflight said:
Hello Folks!

This is my first post over here on this forum. My name is Paul Dye, and since March, I have been the Editor in Chief at Kitplanes Magazine. A friend alerted me to this thread, and I thought I'd drop in to this pilot community and see if I could help.

It's always distressing to hear of someone being upset about something in which I am involved - in this case, the magazine. Unfortunately, none of the original poster's e-mails appear to have come in on any of our Kitplanes accounts, so we were unaware of his concerns. This is also why he didn't receive a response. Unfortunate, but we have all had emails flutter off into oblivion.

I am new to the publishing world, having spent 34 years in aerospace flight testing and operations. My job as EIC is to provide the best magazine content I can for our reader. I really don't have any knowledge of the business side of things, and, in fact, was a bit mystified by the pricing system at first. It was finally explained to me that the introductory print price is for ten issues, and the online price is for twelve - and as was pointed out by someone above, the difference "per issue" ends up as a rounding error. All print subscriptions come with complete digital access, so if you sign up for print, you get both.

A couple of us were discussing this very issue at Oshkosh last week, and came up with an interesting idea. If you absolutely don't want a print issue coming to an address of yours, you can still do some good in the world. Send it to a library, or better yet, a school library. You can still retain the online access to read it, perhaps a student will get a chance to be exposed to the world of homebuilding - and if you donate it to a tax-deductible entity, you might be able to write off your subscription on your taxes! (Caution - I am not a tax accountant, so take that thought with a grain of salt, and check with your financial professional).

We are sorry if we lose a reader, and I am sorry to rub someone the wrong way. The pilot community is small already, and we are besieged from outside forces - we can't afford to split up among ourselves. I hope that this at least gives the rest of the community an insight into the facts, and maybe a few copies of the magazine will show up at some libraries. I know I was always thrilled to find a "Flying" or "AOPA Pilot" when I was a kid.

I'll drop in here now and again to see how things are going - thanks for reading.

Paul
Click to expand...

Paul, I had someone reach out to me via POA chat and tell me to contact you, you're a great guy, I gotta give you a chance, etc. Nice to see you hear. I'm a bit of a grump, want my subscription and THOUGHT I was getting screwed.

After the explanations above, I have no problems. The Economist does the exact same thing and I send the paper copy to my Dad. One comment I will make is that I didn't take time to read the details on the site. I looked at the price on the subscription page, top right corner says $15.95. I scanned down the page until I saw the "Annual DIGITAL Edition" and clicked through only to see a $19.95 amount in the EXACT SAME BOX. I didn't read anything about the print subscription because that isn't what I wanted.

Look, if you don't want to offer digital subscriptions, just make it clear on THAT page what the options are. It doesn't make any sense to me why you guys would offer 10 issues of paper and 12 issues of digital, but if you want to do that, just make it clear. Yeah, yeah, all the info was there if I would have taken the time to read about the paper copy ... which had no interest to me. You need to consider a new layout. I end up looking a bit the idiot in this exchange since a little more research on my part would have shown there wasn't an issue, but I still think you can clear up the site a bit to make sure the next idiot doesn't get confused too.

PS - Picked up Kitplanes at a news stand in 1989 or so and have read every copy from then until moving to China a year and a half ago. When my subscription ended late last year, I tried to renew but only wanted the digital copy and that is when I came across this. I was a bit ****-poor in the early '90s and probably didn't start my subscription until mid-90's. I'm a former Velocity owner and have been hacking about building a CH-601 HDS (though haven't touched it in a while).
 
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