tomdocherty72
Pre-Flight
Can anyone point me in the right direction to make contact with pilots who flew the Northrop F-5 and the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk. A google search for relevant forums or groups drew a blank.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Did the US have any F5 squadrons? I thought that the US only used the T-38 version. Big problem for Northrup. If it wasn't good enough for the US military, what foreign military was going to buy it?
Yes. The F5 was used with moderate success, mostly as a close air support a/c during the Vietnam conflict.Did the US have any F5 squadrons? I thought that the US only used the T-38 version. Big problem for Northrup. If it wasn't good enough for the US military, what foreign military was going to buy it?
Can anyone point me in the right direction to make contact with pilots who flew the Northrop F-5 and the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk. A google search for relevant forums or groups drew a blank.
Thanks.
Did the US have any F5 squadrons? I thought that the US only used the T-38 version. Big problem for Northrup. If it wasn't good enough for the US military, what foreign military was going to buy it?
There is a guy on WIX (Warbird Information Exchange) who I believe is one of the CF TA-4J pilots. If that is the kind of person you are looking for, let me know and I'll see if I can get his name.Collings Foundation in Houston has a TA-4J that they fly from time to time. I'm sure that their guys know others in the A-4 community.
There is a guy on WIX (Warbird Information Exchange) who I believe is one of the CF TA-4J pilots. If that is the kind of person you are looking for, let me know and I'll see if I can get his name.
USN and USMC currently have several squadrons:
VFC-111 at NAS Key West (USN)
VFC-13 at NAS Fallon (USN)
VMFT-401 at MCAS Yuma (USMC)
Back in the old days, TOPGUN/NFWS flew them, as well as the Red Eagles of the USAF (the secret MIG squadron of the 70's/80's).
All of these are fleet adversary units, not not truly operational, but they are squadrons no less.
The Top Gun guys used to come out to NBC with the F-5s, A-4s and F-16s every year until 401 took over in the late 90's. I was working approach one day when about 5-6 of the Sniper guys came in during bad weather. Savannah said that they had enough fuel for one approach and then that had to divert to Charleston. Every single one went missed off the PAR to rwy 5 and continued straight on to CHS. Miss those days working a variety of aircraft on approach. It's all F-18s and T-45s these days.
I know several guys that currently fly the F-5E. I also know plenty of older/senior folks who flew the TA-4J while in flight school. What are you looking for?
Did the US have any F5 squadrons? I thought that the US only used the T-38 version. Big problem for Northrup. If it wasn't good enough for the US military, what foreign military was going to buy it?
I worked at NAS Kingsville for two years back in the 80's...those TA-4Js and the T-2s were tough birds.
Awhile back, I read an extensive article that blamed politics for the demise of the F-5/ F-20. I put in a request to a friend to send me the link that I sent him, so I can post here. Very interesting story (and sounded believable).
The TA-4 was long gone by the time I started flight school, but I did always want to fly the T-2 just to have the experience. Sadly, they were only used in NFO/WSO training by the time I got there. That said, the T-45 was a much better trainer than the Buckeye, though from what I hear, not nearly as good as the TA-4J, both in terms of fuel/range, as well as performance. I guess that isn't surprising, considering the Skyhawk was an operational combat aircraft at one point (TA-4 version notwithstanding).
Went up to the tower once to watch a T-2 take the cable. Crappy wx coming off the PAR with standing water on the runway. He snags the cable and it rips his hook right out the back! Ground says "hook skip", while I was like "no, it's sitting on the runway." Aircraft Recovery guys were expecting a Hornet not a Buckeye.
The TA-4 was long gone by the time I started flight school, but I did always want to fly the T-2 just to have the experience.
There is probably some truth to that, but the reality is/was that the F-20 was no better than the F-16, and the supply chain for the F-16 was already in place, so adding the F-20 to the fleet would have meant another supply type to support from a training, support, logistics standpoint. It didn't hurt that the F-16 (IIRC) shares the basic engine with the F-15 which is beneficial from a supply chain/support perspective.
I think the bottom line was that the overall system cost of a fleet of F-16's would be less than that of an equivalent mixed fleet.
Spiccoli/ "I know that dude..." /SpiccoliHe snags the cable and it rips his hook right out the back!
Spiccoli/ "I know that dude..." /Spiccoli
Roll-coupled departures in the T-2 were an awesome sight to behold.
Nauga,
who said, "what the **** did we just do and can we do it again?"
Now, I really hope to het that story. It told a story of how the F-20 would have undercut the costs of the F-16 significantly, even when the F-16 was cheap ($20mill IIRC was original bid). The Tigershark was a multi-national project and at the time, Reagan (under the Republican party) needed to topedo the Carter regime on this, so Northrop mothballed the Tigershark until more favorable political times. It also told how the B-2 was a somewhat "make-up" item for hurt feelings on the F-20.
I hope I get the article.
I have to admit that I was mildly disappointed during my RAG OCF flight in the mighty F/A-18B that I/we were completely unable to get the thing into a spin of any kind.....even with max AB on one motor, idle on the other, bullseye nose high, and full cross controls. Just swapped ends and after the nose hunted for a couple swings, it started flying away. Must have tried it 5-10 times to no avail. Kind of cool to fall backwards through a cloud of unburnt fuel, but I wouldn't say it was the best training if spin recovery was a training objective. Didn't both of the Tomcat RAG's have a dedicated T-2 OCF/departure training and/or currency syllabus? I thought I remembered seeing something like that. Sounds like it would have been a good thing.
I've also heard (or maybe read) the departure you mention was really insane and disorienting.....basically just tumbles end over end, right?
Was this pre-10.7? What you need to do is gouge one side of the radome boot a few times, *then* try it :wink2: I never departed a Hornet but did a lot of work on the OOCF syllabus flight(s) and I can relate to your difficulties. I can't tell you how to reliably spin it but I can tell you how to get a wicked full outside snap during the low-AOA rudder departure. I can also tell you the -g overstress MMP code. :wink2:I have to admit that I was mildly disappointed during my RAG OCF flight in the mighty F/A-18B that I/we were completely unable to get the thing into a spin of any kind...
Oh nononono...Nauga was a studly flight test engineer, one of those dashing sandcrab types who would sell their souls for back seat time and polished their pocket protectors when they weren't folding stripcharts. As for the left side of the envelope, I lived there for a while (still do on other stuff) but stood on the shoulders of giants.He's one of those studly test pilot kinda guys.
Was this pre-10.7? What you need to do is gouge one side of the radome boot a few times, *then* try it :wink2: I never departed a Hornet but did a lot of work on the OOCF syllabus flight(s) and I can relate to your difficulties. I can't tell you how to reliably spin it but I can tell you how to get a wicked full outside snap during the low-AOA rudder departure. I can also tell you the -g overstress MMP code. :wink2:
Nauga,
looking for his spin notes
Anybody can pull an 811. You gotta work harder for a 925 :wink2:Don't worry, I am part of the 811 club too
Not the article I spoke of, but take a look:
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1986/may-jun/frey.html
I have someone checking his browser history. He should get back to me tomorrow.
Can anyone point me in the right direction to make contact with pilots who flew the Northrop F-5 and the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk. A google search for relevant forums or groups drew a blank.
Thanks.