NORCAL/SOCAL Approach?

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lUDOVIC

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flyingfireman44
Hello,
I'm french pilot, i often hear in videos terms NORCAL and SOCAL approach, can someone explain me what is it ?
Thanks
Ludovic
 
Norcal is short for "Northern California" (ex. San Fran)

Socal is short for "Southern California" (ex. LA)
 
OK thank you, so there are many SOCAL or NORCAL approach if I understand ?
 
Approach is Air Traffic Control near large airports. Each approach has a name. Denver approach, Socal approach etc.
Approach is sometimes call "Tracon" or "Departure" (same working group)
Center is Air Traffic Control in the large spaces between large airports. They have names too.
 
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In the cases of SOCAL and NORCAL TRACONs they cover rather large areas, and not just near the major airports, because of the density of traffic in California. The airspace is divided up into 3 basic groups. "Towers" handle the immediate airspace around a controlled airport, "Approach" or TRACONs handle the surrounding areas up to a certain altitude, and distance away, and "Centers" handle the rest of the enroute space, higher and farther.

Normally Approach only covers 30-50 miles out from a major airport, but since there is so much traffic in CA SOCAL basically covers everything South of Santa Barbara, and Norcal covers from around Monterey on north to past the bay area. Each is technically one facility, with all the controllers in one building, but the airspace is divided up into many sectors. One of my friends for example is a controller for SOCAL and covers only departures from VNY and the immediate vicinity. Usually when I overfly that area I'm in and out of her sector in about 10 minutes.
 
It's not uncommon to fly in the Los Angeles basin on a 50 nm trip and be handed off four or five times to different approach frequencies. Just a function of lots of planes in an urban area.
 
SOCAL and NORCAL were the new names given when previous Approach controls were combined at a new location. SOCAL is located in San Diego. Los Angeles, Coast(which was a combining of El Toro and Long Beach approaches from years earlier), Burbank and Ontario Approaches were moved. The Radar antennaes stayed right where they were, just the scopes were moved. San Diego approach was the last one brought in. It wasn't part of the original plan, but when it was decided that San Diego was to be the location they started the process to get San Diego Approach moved in also. NORCAL was a combination of Bay, Sacramento, Stockton, Reno and maybe some others, I'm not sure.

Edit. Oh Yeah. Palm Springs Approach eventually got absorbed into the SOCAL pod.
 
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lUDOVIC said:
OK thank you, so there are many SOCAL or NORCAL approach if I understand ?
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Don't confuse the controlling authority "SOCAL Approach" with an IAP. Totally different.

It's very common in Southern California to have SOCAL Approach tell you to "contact SOCAL Approach 1xx.xx", and you'll tune and check on with SOCAL, and then get moved to the NEXT SOCAL and so it goes. Same thing happens around Dallas, TX where you switch freqs that are all called Approach while you're just transitioning the area.

Further out in Texas we hear "Fort Worth Center" but I don't think I've ever heard "SOCAL Center". "Los Angeles Center", or the like. Perhaps I'm too low and slow to get with them. I'm curious who you talk to going to Phoenix, like over Barstow... is that "LA Center?"
 
lUDOVIC said:
OK thank you, so there are many SOCAL or NORCAL approach if I understand ?
Click to expand...

There are many Approach controls with names that are not the name of a partcular city. Many of them were the combining of other Approach Controls together. Cascade Approach in Oregon is a combination of the old Eugene and Medford Approaches. Chinook Approach in Washington is a combination of the old Pendleton, Pasco, Yakima and Moses Lake Approaches.
 
rolivi said:
Don't confuse the controlling authority "SOCAL Approach" with an IAP. Totally different.

It's very common in Southern California to have SOCAL Approach tell you to "contact SOCAL Approach 1xx.xx", and you'll tune and check on with SOCAL, and then get moved to the NEXT SOCAL and so it goes. Same thing happens around Dallas, TX where you switch freqs that are all called Approach while you're just transitioning the area.

Further out in Texas we hear "Fort Worth Center" but I don't think I've ever heard "SOCAL Center". "Los Angeles Center", or the like. Perhaps I'm too low and slow to get with them. I'm curious who you talk to going to Phoenix, like over Barstow... is that "LA Center?"
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There is an LA Center. It's located in Palmdale.

Most of their low altitude airspace is handled by SoCal, but the high altitude airspace is different.

There is also an Oakland Center, with a similar relationship to NorCal (though it has quite a bit of non-NorCal airspace down to the ground north of the Bay Area).

Not all of NorCal is even in California. They handle approaches into Reno, too. But not South Lake Tahoe (go figure).
 
You will also hear a lot of references to the TRACON controllers for NorCal and SoCal as there are both a pretty good concentration of pilots in those two areas and outside of New York, NorCal and SoCal is some of the busiest and more complicated airspace in the country with a high concentration of adjacent and overlaying Bravo, Charlie, Delta and Echo airspace making the use of Flight Following and ATC services more prevalent and preferred than other areas of the country....hence a lot of discussion about their quirks and procedures here.
 
rolivi said:
Further out in Texas we hear "Fort Worth Center" but I don't think I've ever heard "SOCAL Center". "Los Angeles Center", or the like. Perhaps I'm too low and slow to get with them. I'm curious who you talk to going to Phoenix, like over Barstow... is that "LA Center?"
Click to expand...

You must be staying pretty low and close in then. I talk to LA Center all the time, usually when I'm leaving the areas that SoCal covers. LA Center covers the higher altitudes over SoCal, as well as a larger area beyond. Flying from San Diego to the Bay area I'll usually get handed to a half dozen SoCal controllers, then to LA Center, then Bakersfield Approach, then Oakland Center, then several NorCal handoffs.
 
Easiest way to think about it...TRACON (aka: approach) controls the airspace about around any Charlie and Bravo airports within about 30-50 miles and up to about 8000-10000'. CENTER controls the airspace above and in between that TRACON's airspace. A bit of a generalization but pretty accurate how they divy it up and who you will be talking to in relation to your location and other airports.
 
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rolivi said:
Don't confuse the controlling authority "SOCAL Approach" with an IAP. Totally different.

It's very common in Southern California to have SOCAL Approach tell you to "contact SOCAL Approach 1xx.xx", and you'll tune and check on with SOCAL, and then get moved to the NEXT SOCAL and so it goes. Same thing happens around Dallas, TX where you switch freqs that are all called Approach while you're just transitioning the area.

Further out in Texas we hear "Fort Worth Center" but I don't think I've ever heard "SOCAL Center". "Los Angeles Center", or the like. Perhaps I'm too low and slow to get with them. I'm curious who you talk to going to Phoenix, like over Barstow... is that "LA Center?"
Click to expand...

Over Barstow you're in LA Centers sky. You're not far from Joshua Approach's sky though. That is the High Desert TRACON, physical location is Edwards Air Force base, radio call is Joshua Approach.
 
rolivi said:
I'm curious who you talk to going to Phoenix, like over Barstow... is that "LA Center?"
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Based on the enroute chart, Barstow is in LA Center's territory, but Joshua Approach is another possibility. Eventually, you get switched over to Albuquerque Center.
 
Here is the translation
A list of TRACONs ... and ... " Centers" ( ARTCCs ) for your pleasure , sir.
( Please remember , there will be a test in an hour !)
 
Resurecting an old thread...

Shawn said:
You will also hear a lot of references to the TRACON controllers for NorCal and SoCal as there are both a pretty good concentration of pilots in those two areas and outside of New York, NorCal and SoCal is some of the busiest and more complicated airspace in the country with a high concentration of adjacent and overlaying Bravo, Charlie, Delta and Echo airspace making the use of Flight Following and ATC services more prevalent and preferred than other areas of the country....hence a lot of discussion about their quirks and procedures here.
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Actually, SoCal Approach is the busiest ATC facility in the world and controls the busiest airspace. NorCal is the third busiest in the US, and probably the world. Their airspace is a bit less densely populated, doesn't get quite as much VFR traffic and gets a little carved up. Two Bravos, Three Charlies, one TRSA that will eventually be a Charlie and a bunch of towers in a part of the world with lots of people, lots of money and great weather, so a lot of pilots and flight training.

StinkBug said:
You must be staying pretty low and close in then. I talk to LA Center all the time, usually when I'm leaving the areas that SoCal covers. LA Center covers the higher altitudes over SoCal, as well as a larger area beyond. Flying from San Diego to the Bay area I'll usually get handed to a half dozen SoCal controllers, then to LA Center, then Bakersfield Approach, then Oakland Center, then several NorCal handoffs.
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That weird sliver of L.A. Center's airspace over the LHS/GMN area is probably more a function of the higher MVAs and need for radar and radio coverage than anything, just like the weird sliver they have between San Diego and Palm Springs, where SoCal picks up again in the TRSA. You literally talk to one sector and then switch to SoCal going south or Bakersfield going north. In general, L.A. Center doesn't handle much terminal approach control at all - it is mostly delegated to SoCal, Pt. Mugu, Santa Barbara, Joshua, Bakersfield and Las Vegas/Nellis. That is until all of those but SoCal and Vegas shut down at night, and then L.A. Center picks up for the closed approach controls (though their radar coverage isn't the greatest at low altitude and they often try and get you a visual). If you stay nearer the coast, under 10-12k feet, and don't fly between 10 pm and 6 am, there is a good chance you'll never talk to L.A. Center. It is a lot more rare for pilots operating under about 12k feet to talk to L.A. Center than Oakland Center, and they aren't as famous on YouTube :p
 
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