Non-Radar arrivals

[Richard]

It occurs to me that planning your IFR arrival to aprts w/o coverage is like formation flying with other flights inbound to the same destination. To facilitate your quick arrival and to minimize delays you may chose to jockey the throttle, S-turns, or some other manuevering or a combination of those things. You do these things after taking account the type a/c in the mix and to hold your position in the conga line. If done well you have held adequate separation to ensure an orderly flow into the IAF which results in a smooth arrival.

Depending on the amount and the type of traffic and the current ability of ATC you may 'form up' while still many miles out from beginning your approach. That a/c you 'formed up' on may still be miles away and out of visual but as you draw nearer to your destination you will, hopefully, fall into a pleasant in-trail loose formation to an uneventful landing.

What do you think of that?

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

It occurs to me that planning your IFR arrival to aprts w/o coverage is like formation flying with other flights inbound to the same destination. To facilitate your quick arrival and to minimize delays you may chose to jockey the throttle, S-turns, or some other manuevering or a combination of those things. You do these things after taking account the type a/c in the mix and to hold your position in the conga line.

You won't likely have to play with the throttle or S-turn, that is something you might do when visual, and working into a busy pattern.
As you near a non radar airport you might be told to slow down, speed up, or commence a hold.

If done well you have held adequate separation to ensure an orderly flow into the IAF which results in a smooth arrival.

Yes, but that is all an atc function. You likely won't know where the traffic is so you won't be able to do anything except follow atc instructions.

Depending on the amount and the type of traffic and the current ability of ATC you may 'form up' while still many miles out from beginning your approach. That a/c you 'formed up' on may still be miles away and out of visual but as you draw nearer to your destination you will, hopefully, fall into a pleasant in-trail loose formation to an uneventful landing.

The line-up thing is something that more often happens at a larger airport with radar as everyone gets spaced by approach into the gates. At the small, non-radar airport everyone heads to one or two fixes and waits (holds) until preceding traffic has cleared the area. Ie - until the guy ahead has cancelled or departing aircraft is confirmed to be out of your way.

 

[poadeleted20]

Since the minimum in-trail IFR separations for everything except visual approaches are greater than the distance you can see the plane ahead of you, this isn't likely to fly. Without radar, it will be procedural separation unless you can meet the criteria for a visual approach (i.e., have the aircraft ahead of you in sight while procedurally separated, probably by altitude since lateral separation will probably put the other plane out of sight).

 

[AdamZ]

I had some what of a related situation when recently flying into KPVC on an IFR flight plan. I was about 1/2 way or more across the bay and Cape approached called traffic at my 8 O'clock 500' below me same direction. Approach wasn't talking to him ( a brand spanking new 182) App told be I could do a 360 if I like and switched me to CTAF. I called the traffic who did not respond. So I opted to do the 360 as I a low wing did not want to descend into the high wing approaching from my 8 O'clock. The 182 flew in NORDO or at least had it turned off b/c he upset everyone in the pattern and made no pattern position calls.
So basically App told me where traffic was and left it up to me how to avoid it probably b/c I was only a few miles from the airport. Don't know if this is standard but App will usually just tell me that there are no , one or multiple targets in the vicinity of the untowered field I am flying to,

 

[Richard]

Dave, Ron, thanks for your responses. Yeah, it wouldn't work namely because it doesn't follow the established criteria although it was the avoidance of the hold Dave mentioned which was part of what I wrote. Not the hold, per se, but the resultant delay. Anyway, it's only conceptual thinking, not something I would purposely aim to do.

I had two specific flights in mind when I wrote that, besides, the recent thread reminded me of that thought. Both flights were similar in that I was making an arrival in a non-radar environment in IMC and I knew intimately the terrain, fixes, etc. One was at night. The night flight I have already mentioned. The day IMC flight featured a mix of biz jet departures, one biz jet arrival, a C-182 and me, a -172. Each flight I was able to time my arrival to just in time to be cleared for the approach. I did this by mentally tracking the traffic (on freq) as they passed each fix including those outside the IAF. Manuevering inside the IAF is not something I have done, but I think slowing down in lieu of the hold is a workable plan. Of course, advise ATC before the speed reduction.

On a slant view to the above, I have been vectored off the approach because ATC could not maintain separation. A pilot-induced speed reduction in a non-radar environment could serve well.

 

[AirBaker]

I have yet to be given a hold outside of requesting one or practice. When I was flying the 172, it was always 'maintain best speed' and once I was given a 'reduce speed to 90 knots'. In the Bonanza, I usually get a 'maintain 130 knots or greater until the FAF'.

But in agreement with above, ATC isn't going to clear you for an approach unless there is plenty of room.

 

[poadeleted20]

So basically App told me where traffic was and left it up to me how to avoid it probably b/c I was only a few miles from the airport. Don't know if this is standard but App will usually just tell me that there are no , one or multiple targets in the vicinity of the untowered field I am flying to,

For VFR traffic with whom the controller isn't talking, this is standard, although they will usually provide avoidance vectors if you request it.