Non-IFR Clearance into the flight levels

[flyboy102]

Here's a topic I've been wondering about (maybe you sailplane pilots can chime in):

How do gliders go about getting a clearance to soar above 18,000'? How is the request phrased to center, and what regs cover it?

On a related note, I'm interested in taking my airplane to its service ceiling of about 22,000', but it is not IFR certified. How likely is it that ATC would work with me for a clearance to spiral up in a localized area? How would you do this? Is there a set procedure? I'd imagine it might be similar to how the Flying Tiger flew time to climb runs...

 

[tonycondon]

glider operations above FL180 are conducted under waivers with the local ATC Center (which we usually call "Wave Windows"). There is some sort of a procedure to open and close the window. sometimes the individual pilots have to make contact with center but usually they just have to all be on a common frequency with the person on the ground who coordinates with ATC. If ATC wants the space back they call the ground contact on the phone and that person calls the pilots who then would vacate the airspace. Every agreement is probably a little different on the specifics though.

 

[Fearless Tower]

On a related note, I'm interested in taking my airplane to its service ceiling of about 22,000', but it is not IFR certified. How likely is it that ATC would work with me for a clearance to spiral up in a localized area?

Unless you have an arrangement or waiver as Tony described in advance, I don't believe what you are wanting to do is possible since you need a clearance in Class A and the airplane must be IFR capable to operate on an IFR clearance.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

In non-congested areas, I know folks that have called center to do maintenance testing above FL180 non-IFR, but it's much easier to be IFR with a block altitude assigned and an area of ops. Why not call center and ask what the best manner in which to approach it is? If nothing else, get and instrument rated pilot to take the flight with you and file (He/she would of course be PIC).

Best,

Dave

 

[elmetal]

In non-congested areas, I know folks that have called center to do maintenance testing above FL180 non-IFR, but it's much easier to be IFR with a block altitude assigned and an area of ops. Why not call center and ask what the best manner in which to approach it is? If nothing else, get and instrument rated pilot to take the flight with you and file (He/she would of course be PIC).

Best,

Dave

both the aircraft and the pilot have to be rated. The aircraft in this case isn't, so it wouldn't be much of a difference whether or not the pilot is rated

 

[Jim Logajan]

On a related note, I'm interested in taking my airplane to its service ceiling of about 22,000', but it is not IFR certified. How likely is it that ATC would work with me for a clearance to spiral up in a localized area? How would you do this? Is there a set procedure? I'd imagine it might be similar to how the Flying Tiger flew time to climb runs...

Sec. 91.903 & 91.905 of the FARs provide a list of which rules can be waived. Operations in Class A airspace happens to be one of them. This appears to be the FAA form you must fill out to request a waiver:

http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa7711-2.pdf

Hope this helps (I've never done it; just found it via Google search.)

 

[pdonahue]

I believe that you can go VFR above FL180 if you're not in class A airspace. For instance, anywhere in Hawaii, more than 12 miles off the coast, or particular parts of Alaska and coastal California. See FAR 71.33. I assume that this doesn't apply to you, but it's interesting.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

both the aircraft and the pilot have to be rated. The aircraft in this case isn't, so it wouldn't be much of a difference whether or not the pilot is rated

OH! Guess I'm just so used to an IFR equipped AC, that never occurred to me. Belay that remark!

Best,

Dave

 

[flyboy102]

Helpful info! Thanks. I suppose I was looking for a simpler answer for a one-off flight trial without having to submit for a waiver. Guess some more research is in order. I am instrument rated, but the aircraft is not (and never will be). Might just have to keep it under FL180.

 

[tonycondon]

it might not be that hard to work out a window if you call ATC on the phone and hash out the details ahead of time. i've usually found them to be accommodating for one time weird requests once i explain what i need to do.