No wonder the border patrol is so ineffective

[SkyHog]

Today I was watching television, lamenting about finding a new job, and I saw a commercial for the Border Patrol and how they're hiring.

I was kind of excited, since I feel so strongly about controlling our borders and I figured I'd apply. I love law enforcement stuff, and have entertained the idea of doing the minute man thing, so I went to the website to see the requriements.

The first thing I saw was that the job only pays 35K a year. That's fine, I'd do it for that, as I am still working on my degree and whatnot, it could be kind of cool still. Then I saw the second part. It requires a Bachelors Degree.

Who the hell is gonna get a degree and then work for the Border Patrol making $35,000 a year? No wonder we can't get a group of effective agents.

For information to anyone who wants to do it, check out:

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov...der_patrol_factsheet.ctt/careers_bpa_fact.doc

 

[Brian Austin]

You'd be surprised at how many jobs require a degree and start out in that range. The degree just shows you can learn...not that you know anything.

 

[jesse]

I was going to apply for a job at one point that was 19k / yr.

Guess what? Four year degree required.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

I was going to apply for a job at one point that was 19k / yr.

Guess what? Four year degree required.

Ah, first year pilot at American Eagle or one of the other commuters, eh?

 

[SkyHog]

You'd be surprised at how many jobs require a degree and start out in that range. The degree just shows you can learn...not that you know anything.

I understand, but the job I'm looking forward to when I finish my degree pays 45K a year to start. I suspect that there are many jobs like that for people who can actually interview well.

 

[wsuffa]

The government jobs typically start out in that range, and (depending on agency/grade) move up fairly quickly over the next few years. Compared to other law-enforcement positions (or professions like teaching, social work, etc), this is comparable. Compared to other professions - computers, engineering, investment banking - the amount is low.

Look at the entire package, though, as I understand it, certain law enforcement positions have retirement benefits that are better than some other professions....

It all depends on what you want, and what the market demands. As long as people are taking the positions, the pay is not "too little".

 

[Brian Austin]

I understand, but the job I'm looking forward to when I finish my degree pays 45K a year to start. I suspect that there are many jobs like that for people who can actually interview well.

Probably but many, many jobs start considerably lower. Any form of 'protection' generally falls into that category.

It really depends on what someone wants to do with his/her life and where they want to be financially. Too often, people look at the degree and not the end result. My first wife's degree was in Biology. After graduation, she went job hunting and was dismayed to learn that the only jobs available were working for the state agencies for just over $20K/year. She just gave it up. Never looked at anything to do with biology again.

Keep in mind, too, that your "start" is an approximate number, often subject to the whims of the economy and job market. If more people are going for your same degree, aiming for the same job, supply goes up, demand goes down and you're in a bidding war with competition. BTDT. Blah.

 

[ScottM]

Today I was watching television, lamenting about finding a new job, and I saw a commercial for the Border Patrol and how they're hiring.

I was kind of excited, since I feel so strongly about controlling our borders and I figured I'd apply. I love law enforcement stuff, and have entertained the idea of doing the minute man thing, so I went to the website to see the requriements.

The first thing I saw was that the job only pays 35K a year. That's fine, I'd do it for that, as I am still working on my degree and whatnot, it could be kind of cool still. Then I saw the second part. It requires a Bachelors Degree.

Who the hell is gonna get a degree and then work for the Border Patrol making $35,000 a year? No wonder we can't get a group of effective agents.

For information to anyone who wants to do it, check out:

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/careers/customs_careers/border_careers/border_patrol_factsheet.ctt/careers_bpa_fact.doc

A librarian, which requires a Master Degree in library science, starts at around $18,000/yr. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

A lot of law enforcment jobs require a BA or BS. Not too many places to get a job with just a HS diploma that pays a living wage.

 

[SkyHog]

A librarian, which requires a Master Degree in library science, starts at around $18,000/yr. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

A lot of law enforcment jobs require a BA or BS. Not too many places to get a job with just a HS diploma that pays a living wage.

That might shed a bit of light onto why my employer routinely treats me like a pile of dog dung. I do make a living wage and only have a HS Diploma (currently).

Its unbelieveably surprising that a job would start that low after a Masters, but it is a Librarian...and while I respect them, that seems to be a job better suited for someone without a degree (it is, afterall, strikingly similar to a convienience store clerk....put books on shelves, run a computer, and give people merchandise).

 

[poadeleted3]

Nick, you don't become a cop to get rich. Gotta find other reasons. Still, you can end up doing pretty well for yourself, and retirement after 20 years is still fairly common. Being retired in mid-40s with a decent paycheck coming in, while young enough to work at something else you love, can help make up for comparatively low pay for a lot of folks.

 

[ScottM]

T
Its unbelieveably surprising that a job would start that low after a Masters, but it is a Librarian...and while I respect them, that seems to be a job better suited for someone without a degree (it is, afterall, strikingly similar to a convienience store clerk....put books on shelves, run a computer, and give people merchandise).

That is not at all what a librarian does. That is what a page at the library does for minimum wage. A librarian job entail much more much more. What you wrote was actually quite insulting to librarians.

 

[SkyHog]

That is not at all what a librarian does. That is what a page at the library does for minimum wage. A librarian job entail much more much more. What you wrote was actually quite insulting to librarians.

My apologies to anyone I offended.

Now I'm curious - what else does a librarian do?

 

[Greebo]

My apologies to anyone I offended.

Now I'm curious - what else does a librarian do?

Eat bananas, say Ook alot, and manipulate the mysterious and dangerous dimensions of L-space.

(10 points to the person who gets the reference)

 

[SJP]

Eat bananas, say Ook alot, and manipulate the mysterious and dangerous dimensions of L-space.

(10 points to the person who gets the reference)

Guards !!! Guards !!


I should take another trip to the Unseen University

 

[AirBaker]

Low pay, but do you get to carry a gun and go 4-wheeling? My guess is that it isn't just a job, but an adventure! (Thus attracting various types).

 

[Greebo]

Guards !!! Guards !!


I should take another trip to the Unseen University

/me gives SJP 10 points.

 

[ScottM]

My apologies to anyone I offended.

Now I'm curious - what else does a librarian do?

Fair question. The person normally sitting at the desk is not always a librarian at the public library, at university libraries there does tend to be more of the librarians of the line. But I digress.

Librarians have to not only be skilled at the job of library science but in understanding topics that people may be looking for. This requires at least an overview of knowledge of multiple subjects. When I step into my companies technical library the librarian can at least speak with me on an engineering level. In the public library their is a wide variety of subjects that need to be supported. Libariand spend time learning about the multiple topics that the public may need information about in order to serve them better. They also have to be aware of all those fun subjects that kids and adults are study at the local schools. Because most people will come to the library to get the information they need to finish their assignment. That is why a bachelors degree is not the entry level point for librarians. The bachelors degree is always inanother field. Some pre-law and post law degree people will specialize in law librarian which is a higher paying field to start with than public and acedmic library. There are many specialized libarys but I will focus on the public.

There are three areas of libary service, techincal, user, and administration. They libarians need to be familiar with information in their chosen field of study and work with patrons/customers to help them find the information they need. To do this the libarian needs to be able to analyze a users’ needs to determine the apropriate information, as well as searching for, acquiring, and providing the information. This requires an extensive knowledge of where to find information on how to access the database, online source, book, periodical, and the associated indexes. The job of librarian also includes an instructional role to teach people how to access information.

In the technical service area librarians deal with information acquisitions and cataloging, acquire and prepare materials for use. These people work in the back and when infomormation comes into the library have to figure out the logical place for it and then place all the apropriate reference in the catalog system. The intracacies of cataloging baffle me and are a source of great ammusment. As an engineer I see the catalogers geek factor, IMHO, being much higher.

In the adminstratvie area librariansoversee the management, policy, and planning of libraries: negotiate contracts for services, materials, and equipment; supervise library employees; perform public-relations and fundraising duties; prepare budgets; and direct activities to ensure that everything functions properly. To do this job function requires a large amount of skills not normally associated with a librarian. My wife is an Ast. Director of a large library and she has had to learn about construction techniques, what the legally blind can see and what types of equipment enhance their vision, and a very good grasp of privacy law.

On top of all of this because much of the information is moving online librarians are also very much like computer system adminstrator and database admins. They have to be proficient in thos skills as well as the steroetypical skills.

Those skills you mentioned are farmed out to technical aids and teenagers.

 

[SkyHog]

Here's why Nick's a jerk

Holy crap. I never figured they'd do so much, around here, they seem lazy and not knowledgable about any subject I ever asked them about. Then again, there's not a lot of people in this state that actually DO do their jobs well (myself included lately).

Thanks for the information.

 

[woodstock]

I understand, but the job I'm looking forward to when I finish my degree pays 45K a year to start. I suspect that there are many jobs like that for people who can actually interview well.

Your 45K a year job may get 5% raises annually, or heck maybe 20%. my brother started in the government 4 years ago at wage close to that and is now closing in on triple and ain't done yet. combined with his military time he could retire in what, ten years? and get another job. (not sure how the govt retirement thing works now).

 

[ausrere]

Who the hell is gonna get a degree and then work for the Border Patrol making $35,000 a year? No wonder we can't get a group of effective agents.

For information to anyone who wants to do it, check out:

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov...der_patrol_factsheet.ctt/careers_bpa_fact.doc

Nick..IIRC it used to be that the Border Patrol was one of the few Federal Law Enforcement agencies who required that all their pilots come from the front line folks with agent experience. They don't (or didnt') hire pilots from outside the agency. I went to high school with a guy who went to the BP and was flying helicopters for them in no time. He had his private when he signed up. Might something to think about! I understand you must like flying low though! A chance at flying for the BP might make up for those "middle of nowhere" postings.. I wish I were a little younger, it would be tempting.

 

[Michael]

Nick, The minute men only want 50 bucks to join, then you can fly for free...well except for fuel, and other expenses.

 

[ScottM]

Holy crap. I never figured they'd do so much, around here, they seem lazy and not knowledgable about any subject I ever asked them about. Then again, there's not a lot of people in this state that actually DO do their jobs well (myself included lately).

Thanks for the information.

Are you sure they are real librarians? I am not saying all are saints. But there is a shortage of them. I mean really who wants to go to school for 6 years and end up making less than a regional airline pil.. err.. fast food worker ??

So many libraries only have one or two librarians and they are usually in the admin and technical services area and the rest are library technical aids. These are people who go to 2 semesters of community college to learn how a few things in the library work.

I sit on the Library Board in my town. We have 4 librarians including the Director on staff the rest of LTAs and other workers.

 

[SkyHog]

Are you sure they are real librarians? I am not saying all are saints. But there is a shortage of them. I mean really who wants to go to school for 6 years and end up making less than a regional airline pil.. err.. fast food worker ??

So many libraries only have one or two librarians and they are usually in the admin and technical services area and the rest are library technical aids. These are people who go to 2 semesters of community college to learn how a few things in the library work.

I sit on the Library Board in my town. We have 4 librarians including the Director on staff the rest of LTAs and other workers.

We have 17 Public Libraries in Albuquerque, and we also have 6 UNM Libraries and I believe 3 Community College Libraries. Each one appears to have one or two librarians each...but I may not actually be talking to them, you are right, I may be talking to their lackies.

I must say, you need to fight for higher salaries for your librarians!

 

[ScottM]

We have 17 Public Libraries in Albuquerque, and we also have 6 UNM Libraries and I believe 3 Community College Libraries. Each one appears to have one or two librarians each...but I may not actually be talking to them, you are right, I may be talking to their lackies.

I must say, you need to fight for higher salaries for your librarians!

The thread jack continues

Ahh how I could go on about budgets, taxes, salaries and benfits.
When I ran for the Board of trustees one of my friends half jokingly asked me if I would just jack up their salaries since that would have an affect on neighboring librarys and result in my wife getting higher pay.

We are trying to get their salaries up but we are also having to balance that on averae salaries in other like sized librarys, the needs to expand and purchase information for patrons (who foot the bill and should get the service they pay for) and not loose pass with inflation all the while seeing our tax base decease because of a bizare tax cap law here in Illinois.

But so we don;t not get into trouble for getting to far off of the topic at hand, $35k for law enforcment with a BA is not a bad start. Governement can move you up quick and law enforcement generally does have some good retiree benefits.