No way would someone start another "Which plane should I buy?" thread!

Steve Job

Steve Job

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Lexington, Illinois
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Steve Job
But I did. :wink2:

Current plane - Piper Warrior co-owned with one partner

Bothersome limitations - Even though it's fine for puttering around Illinois, it's not suitable for bringing our wives along. My partner also has a home in Florida, and we would like to be able to make that trip with all four of us (and remain friends when we arrive).

Potential candidates - Piper Dakota, Commander 114

Budget - approximately 100K

I have around 50 hours in a rental Dakota, and we used to own a Cherokee 235 (1968 with an almost unusable rear seat), but absolutely no time in a Commander. Plus I only have about 10 hours total retract time, so insurance may be an issue.

Any other obvious choices in our price range that I'm missing capable of this mission? My partner isn't keen on a 60's or earlier era plane. Also, we like low wings (mostly for style points).
 
Four people, bags, and luggage .... ;)

Florida in the summertime from Illinois ...

Air conditioned Bo. jmho ...
 
You already know the Cherokee-235; I bought a '73 because I definitely wanted the stretched fuselage---the back seats are actually usable now. So, Dakota, sure---182 if you're not completely set on the low wing.
 
what sort of wiggle room is there in your budget?

Our 02 Cirrus was a touch more and does all you need
1150 lbs UL
170 kts
more leg room in the backseats than in my outlander.
 
Are you specifically looking for a certified aircraft? If not, an RV-10 may be worth considering.
 
Cirrus, Bo, rv-10. One of those will be my next plane too and I also have a cherokee. But I do know it will likely be impossible to find an rv-10 that is completed for that budget. Well and for that matter the cirrus will require at least 20k more....so...back to the Bo.
 
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Another "Which plane should I buy?" thread?
Of course. As long as there are pilots, there will be these threads. They provide great information and important insights.

That is why I wonder why I was shot down when I suggested a separate folder for just this type of discussion.
 
simtech said:
Does the repack HAVE to be done?
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Not if you don't care if the chute is going to work for sure, or if you don't mind paying the $10G+ to have it repacked yourself. But why buy a Cirrus if you don't care if the chute is likely to work.
 
Just a data point on parachutes. In 1979 I was part of an experiment with the Rangers and chutes that were outside of repack dates. We found a cache of parachutes some from the Vietnam era, and some seat packs from Korea vintage. Many of them hadn't been repacked in +15 years, some were more than 30 years since repack! All the canopies and lines were original. We strapped a bunch of sandbag dummies to the chutes, and rigged up a static line for the emer packs that would pull the cord on exit. As I recall, we did five flights, and tested about 6 chutes each flight. So, there were maybe +30 units. The test dummies ranged from 160-210Lbs(we had 6 dummies, hence separate flights). So - with all this old equipment we had ZERO canopy and line failures. We had two units that had a little spring driven drogue chute that would pull the main canopy out and one of those two little spring things didn't work right, but the main canopy still worked.

Of course, this was not a CAPS, and it was not really that scientific but I found great comfort in seeing all those chutes open after been sitting in a warehouse for 15-35 years. The seat packs strangely deployed better than the backpacks. I think it's because we tied the dummies legs together so we wouldn't get a deployment through the legs, but who knows.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
This is ballpark what we paid and got.
It does everything

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Single+Engine+Piston/2001/Cirrus/SR22/2047184.html

Edit: if you go this route, make sure the chute repack has been done.
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My partner LOVES the Cirrus, but the budget constraints are due to me, not him. Even disregarding expensive chute repacks, I'm afraid of the rumored routine 10K annuals. Also, do those big Continental engines ever make it to 2000 hours? As our maximum budget continues to creep up, my partner constantly reminds me, "for just a little bit more, we could have a Cirrus!" :goofy:

I ruled out the Bonanza because it seems they hold their value much better than most planes, and it would be tough to find an 80's or newer 36 model anywhere near our price range. The 35 model is beautiful, but the W&B issues seem problematic (maybe I'm misinformed about that).

The RV-10 is way out of our budget. But it would be blast to own one.
 
JOhnH said:
Not if you don't care if the chute is going to work for sure, or if you don't mind paying the $10G+ to have it repacked yourself. But why buy a Cirrus if you don't care if the chute is likely to work.
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Looks like the repack is mandatory. And can cost at least $11k. I have to beleive the chute would still open after 10 years, could be wrong. Did an incident happen where the 10 year repack came about, I mean why 10 years? Other than money. A chute is nice but if a cirrus didn't have one I'd still consider it hence the rv-10 recommendation. Though the 10's prices are moving on up!
 
simtech said:
Looks like the repack is mandatory. And can cost at least $11k. I have to beleive the chute would still open after 10 years, could be wrong. Did an incident happen where the 10 year repack came about, I mean why 10 years? Other than money. A chute is nice but if a cirrus didn't have one I'd still consider it hence the rv-10 recommendation. Though the 10's prices are moving on up!
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I thought it was mandatory, but I wasn't sure. But I recently read something where someone was buying a plane that turned out to be 3 years out of annual, and annuals are mandatory too.

And I'm sure that most 11 or 12 year old chutes would "probably" open too, but I'm not sure how I would test that, or how much I would gamble on it.
 
Steve Job said:
My partner LOVES the Cirrus, but the budget constraints are due to me, not him. Even disregarding expensive chute repacks, I'm afraid of the rumored routine 10K annuals. Also, do those big Continental engines ever make it to 2000 hours? As our maximum budget continues to creep up, my partner constantly reminds me, "for just a little bit more, we could have a Cirrus!" :goofy:
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We got the plane and had annual at the same time.
The annual was $3100 which included a brake job
 
JOhnH said:
I thought it was mandatory, but I wasn't sure. But I recently read something where someone was buying a plane that turned out to be 3 years out of annual, and annuals are mandatory too.

And I'm sure that most 11 or 12 year old chutes would "probably" open too, but I'm not sure how I would test that, or how much I would gamble on it.
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Hahaha true!
 
JOhnH said:
Another "Which plane should I buy?" thread?
Of course. As long as there are pilots, there will be these threads. They provide great information and important insights.

That is why I wonder why I was shot down when I suggested a separate folder for just this type of discussion.
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I agree about having a separate folder. There's so much experience on this board, and the ability to tap into it is what makes POA so valuable. Buying an airplane is a pretty common (and expensive) experience for a pilot, so why not utilize this collective wisdom to your advantage. Or at least try to avoid common pitfalls which everyone else seems to know about but you. :wink2:
 
The longer PA28-235 or newer 236 Archer would be good, as well as the 182 if you aren't hard-over on low wings, although you'll probably get more Archer for your money than a 182 for the same price. If you want the extra speed, a 250+ HP retractable (or even a 182RG) would do the job nicely. The Commanders have the advantage of unusually roomy cabins for their class, but pay for that with less speed than other 4-seat retractables with the same power (large cabin = large frontal area = more drag = less speed). With little retractable time going in, you'll pay a higher premium the first year, but after that it should settle out.

If you want even more room, the PA32 family provides that, including the big back door for rear passenger entry/exit. You could even pull the back two seats for additional baggage area. You can also get that with a 36 Bonanza, but you won't get the nicest BE36 on the market on a $100K budget.
 
+1 on commander
Badazz looking, roomy and they are by no means slow.
 
All my annuals on my 2006 SR22 were <$4000K and I really didn't have anything between annuals other than oil changes. Many (most?) of the NA IO550s seems to make it well past TBO if flown correctly LOP. The turbos on the other hand are more maintenance intensive.

I've only had my 2012 SR22TN for a few months but I expect that I will be spending a lot more on maintenance. There is a pretty big difference between the two in terms of complexity and how hard they are working. Those late G1s/early G2 generation SR22s are great deals!
 
For that mission I would be looking at a FIKI 310 or Baron, maybe a Malibu if y'all aren't heavy or carrying a bunch of luggage.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
+1 on commander
Badazz looking, roomy and they are by no means slow.
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I think he means slow for the fuel burn. I know that the large fuel usage is a major pitfall talked about by Commander owners. I absolutely LOVE the look of a 114 Commander, but the guzzler factor drove me away. Here's a great POA post about that aircraft: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40360

The Cirrus seams to fit your mission quite well, and I really like the one that Bryan posted. It's fast, (your wives will want it more than any other plane, because they all love the cirrus, period) but the annual will be higher and keeping that CAPS and TKS system in tune will carry extra cost.

I always seem to forget about the 236 PA28 for some reason, but Ron is right there too, that is a really legit aircraft for what you're wanting AND may keep a lower annual cost than the Cirrus. Is it more like a truck, sure, but trucks run forever, require very little maintenance, but are a little slower. Well well, looky what I found for you: https://www.globalair.com/aircraft_...t/Piper/Dakota__PA-28-236_for_sale_74676.html

Selling you on a Cardinal or 182RG or T would be easy, but the high wing does not seem to be your style, and I can understand that.
 
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Your mission just screams C182! I fly an Archer and a Warrior a lot, and if the Warrior is too small then the Archer or PA-28-235 will be too small also.

The four of you can cram a 182 full of people and bags and arrive friends in Florida for sure.

The other possibility is a Cardinal. They are huge inside, bigger inside than any other airplane in its class. Cardinals are much nicer and more comfortable to fly than any PA-28 or C182/172.

The RG is a four adult with a little bit of baggage. The downside of the RG is that it has Cessna retractable gear, which can be, shall we say, needy.

A fixed gear 180hp Cardinal is one of the best light planes ever made, but I'm not sure it would have enough useful load for you mission.
 
At 100k, the Mooney world is open to you as well. As well as any number of 4 place Bonanzas.

If you really want to get to Florida from Illinois you are going to want some speed.
 
Which of these $100,000 SE planes is going to haul 4 people and luggage 1200 miles N/S in the winter? The only 2 that qualify are a TN36 Bonanza or PA-32RT, and neither of those are $100k airplanes. Plus for that route, I bet the most desired trips are going to be in the middle of winter. There are three planes I can think of that make his budget, and the newest will be one of the Seneca series. Without the ability to shed ice and climb above the weather and into high TAS ranges, Illinois to Florida in the winter isn't a GA mission.
 
Henning said:
Which of these $100,000 SE planes is going to haul 4 people and luggage 1200 miles N/S in the winter? The only 2 that qualify are a TN36 Bonanza or PA-32RT, and neither of those are $100k airplanes. Plus for that route, I bet the most desired trips are going to be in the middle of winter. There are three planes I can think of that make his budget, and the newest will be one of the Seneca series. Without the ability to shed ice and climb above the weather and into high TAS ranges, Illinois to Florida in the winter isn't a GA mission.
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I don't know Henning, I used to do Ohio to FL at least 2-3 times a year in my standard TKS (non-fiki) SR22. It did require a fuel stop and some willingness to be flexible on departure/arrival timing but it isn't always iced out in the Midwest in winter. I suppose it depends a bit on where in IL he is as well as how tight his scheduling is.

That said, I was getting tired of having to be so* flexible so I did upgrade to a FIKI TN SR22 eventually.

* Please note I said "tired of being so flexible" - I'm not arguing that my single engine piston is 100% ice-proof but the newer Cirrus FIKI system is much more robust and handles the common wintertime climb and descent through a light-moderate icing layer very well.
 
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RudyP said:
I don't know Henning, I used to do Ohio to FL at least 2-3 times a year in my non-fiki SR22. It did require a fuel stop and some willingness to be flexible on departure/arrival timing but it isn't always iced out in the Midwest in winter. I suppose it depends a bit on where in IL he is as well.

That said, I was getting tired of having to be so* flexible so I did upgrade to a FIKI TN SR22 eventually.

* Please note I said "tired of being so flexible" - I'm not arguing that my single engine piston is 100% ice-proof but the newer Cirrus FIKI system is much more robust and handles the common wintertime climb and descent through a light-moderate icing layer very well.
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What SR-22 is he buying for $100k?:dunno: FIKI SR-22 is over $250k, turbos even more.

Seneca II is the cheapest plane that's going to do what he wants it to do. T-310P or Q would be my choice, but I don't know if you can get a good one for under $100k.
 
Well there's the one Bryan posted on the first page that is listed for $134,900. So maybe he negotiates it down a bit, negotiates his range (with his wife) up a bit and they meet in the ballpark? :)

Admittedly, that particular one is a clean wing (non-TKS) model and that is a tough sell IMO in Illinois in February.
 
eman1200 said:
I applaud you for purchasing the cirrus. I question anyone who willingly buys a Mitsubishi.
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The outlander is great. Very tight, SUV but not too big.
I will probably get another one when this one dies.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
The outlander is great. Very tight, SUV but not too big.
I will probably get another one when this one dies.
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Mitsubishi makes a cool Diesel powered 4x4 minivan that I'd love to import here. They are great outback campers.
 
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