No War Birds at Arlington EAA fly in

Tom-D

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Tom-D
Here is a few snips of messages that are on another message board I read..

#!
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I just recieved this in an e-mail from a member of the Cascade Warbirds:


You should know that the Cascade Wabirds will NOT be in attendence for the
AWO Fly-in this year.

After the usual preliminary consultations regarding the cost and involvment
of the Cascade Warbirds, the committee that runs the AWO Fly-in decided that
they will not support the Warbirds of America.

What the Warbirds of America wanted was an equal share of the gate money
from the AWO event that matched the cost of bringing all of our warbirds to
AWO. With all of the hotel rooms, gas, and other costs, our outlay was
approximately USD $30,000. After negotiation, the AWO committee said 'screw
you' we'll get someone else!

This put us in a corner so rather than bow down to these unreasonable
demands, we said We'll go somewhere else. So now we will be in
Kelso Wa. (KLS) where apparantly the town is estactic (sp?) about us being
there.

There will be warbirds present in AWO, but they will be Paul Allen's static
warbirds which will not fly at all during the event.

If you have any questions, please query the Arlington Fly-in Committee.


#2

I'm visiting Barbara Tolbert, Executive Director of the NWEAA and forwarded
her the message below. Here's a snippet of her reply:

"The posting below has quite a bit of mis-information. But that
happens...we will talk this afternoon."

#3
Hi Charles,
Just an FYI, three of us resigned from the Board of Directors in protest of
the way business was being handled. If you'd like more insights, let's talk
and I'll share what I can.
Gary


Sounds like there is a P----ing contest going on over the Gate fees, and who gets what.

I desided after last year paying over 160 bucks for two nights parking in a no hook up space, we weren't doing that again. Every year in the resent past the airshow gets smaller and smaller and moe and more expensive.
 
They'll be singing a different tune after they realize the gate will dry up because you can't have an airshow without aircraft, but it may be too late 'cause they've spread their ill will. I've seen this before, it starts with the big names dropping out but seeing how aviation, especially the warbird community, is so tight, it won't be long before no one shows much interest. In fact, don't be surprised they stay away just to protest.

When will the towns learn even 100% of 0 is 0?
 
I don't know squat about the controversy, only what I read in these posts, mostly the original one. That suggests that CWB has a giant chip on its shoulder. The last time I went to a fly-in because warbirds would be there (or avoided one because they wouldn't) was never. Sure, I enjoy poking around the occaisional B17 or P51. But it's just not that big a deal. Good for AWO for standing up.

Hunter
 
This makes no sense. Y'all are supporting the idea that a bunch of elitists can demand a percentage of the gate to honor a fly-in with their presence?

Forget that, I'm going the other way, until the Cascade Warbirds change their ways, I'm never going to see them in person.

Ever.
 
SkyHog said:
This makes no sense. Y'all are supporting the idea that a bunch of elitists can demand a percentage of the gate to honor a fly-in with their presence?

Forget that, I'm going the other way, until the Cascade Warbirds change their ways, I'm never going to see them in person.

Ever.
On the other hand, these fly-ins have become big bizness, Read up on how Sun n' Fun changed from a local EAA outing to something else. Try to find any reference to EAA at Sun n. Fun now. They ain't getting any of the money.

I know that years ago they said that the B-17 uses $1000 worth of fuel every hour. I imagine it's more money now. The non-profits that find, restore, crew, and re-certify these warbirds need to get the funds somehow. They aren't getting anything for the many, many hours of volunteered time.

Since the CAF had the same dispute with EAA at Oshkosh, we haven't seen 400 warbirds in the air at the same time like they had at the 50th anniversary of the Air Force. This year it was "Here comes THE LANCASTER again." Not quite the same.

It would be nice if both sides could work it out. My suggestion would be to allow a separate solicitation for donations for the warbirds at the gate. I'd bet the airshows wouldn't like that either. Better you spend the $5 on another hot dog.
 
SkyHog said:
This makes no sense. Y'all are supporting the idea that a bunch of elitists can demand a percentage of the gate to honor a fly-in with their presence?

Forget that, I'm going the other way, until the Cascade Warbirds change their ways, I'm never going to see them in person.

Ever.

Nick:

What the Warbirds of America wanted was an equal share of the gate money from the AWO event that matched the cost of bringing all of our warbirds to AWO. With all of the hotel rooms, gas, and other costs, our outlay was approximately USD $30,000.

All they wanted was reimbursement for flying their planes there. That's it. I don't think that is unreasonable at all. If I was to ask Chip to do an "airshow" at 6Y9, I would not find it at all unreasonable for him to say, "Pay for my fuel, food, and lodging, and we have a deal." That's all the AWO is doing.
 
N2212R said:
Nick:

What the Warbirds of America wanted was an equal share of the gate money from the AWO event that matched the cost of bringing all of our warbirds to AWO. With all of the hotel rooms, gas, and other costs, our outlay was approximately USD $30,000.

All they wanted was reimbursement for flying their planes there. That's it. I don't think that is unreasonable at all. If I was to ask Chip to do an "airshow" at 6Y9, I would not find it at all unreasonable for him to say, "Pay for my fuel, food, and lodging, and we have a deal." That's all the AWO is doing.

So then, next year, going to Gastons and to 6Y9, I want compensation to cover the fuel on my plane, its only fair.

From reading the letter, it appears that they were considering going, not that they were being asked to go. Even if I'm wrong, the point stays, they could have respectfully declined, rather than intentionally draw attention away from the original airshow. That's labor union dirtiness, and I don't like seeing that anywhere near general aviation.
 
SkyHog said:
So then, next year, going to Gastons and to 6Y9, I want compensation to cover the fuel on my plane, its only fair.

From reading the letter, it appears that they were considering going, not that they were being asked to go. Even if I'm wrong, the point stays, they could have respectfully declined, rather than intentionally draw attention away from the original airshow. That's labor union dirtiness, and I don't like seeing that anywhere near general aviation.

Most airshows give GA flying-in visitors a nice discount (because it's nice to have airplanes at a fly-in). That's what those GA pilots and their aircraft are "worth", if you will.

It's still thankfully, a free market. The parties involved will go back & forth with speculation on what they are "worth" in actual cash and some compromise that neither party is totally happy with will present itself. Hopefully they would do it with some class.

I like seeing many and varied aircraft aircraft at EAA Arlington but, seeing the warbirds is not primarily why I attend that event and others have their own varied reasons.
 
SkyHog said:
That's labor union dirtiness, and I don't like seeing that anywhere near general aviation.
Labor union dirtiness looks like freshly cleaned laundry compared to some of the dirt that goes on in GA....:rolleyes:
 
SkyHog said:
So then, next year, going to Gastons and to 6Y9, I want compensation to cover the fuel on my plane, its only fair.

If your aircraft is the attraction at Gastons, then I'd be happy to help with your gas.

To attend the EAA Flying this year the entrance fee was 12 bucks for EAA members. And they charged you even if you flew an exhibit aircrat there.

and to top it off the attendance was the smallest ever, I went on Saturday (the busiest day) and there was less than 30,000 on the airport. 5 years ago, the first monday the attendance was 75,000 and over 3 million attended the show the whole week.

No War birds has effected the attendance, AWO didn't even have the budget to advertise on the local TV channels..

The cost of taking my aircraft to a show is 9 gals per hour, @ 4.50 per thats 45 bucks per hour to get there, plus the time off work, food for the time at the show at show prices.

and they want me to pay them for showing my aircraft as part of the attraction.

Nope! not any more.
 
If my memory serves me correctly ... it's 50 gallons/hour

TIMES 4

Oh, plus 8 gallons of oil per hour

TIMES 4

:hairraise:
mikea said:
I know that years ago they said that the B-17 uses $1000 worth of fuel every hour. I imagine it's more money now.
 
Y'all are ignoring the point. If I decided I wanted to have an airshow tomorrow, and I asked if this group would come, they demanded the money, and I backed off, knowing it was too much, would it be ok for them to trash my name and throw their own airshow, to make sure that no one came to mine?

How about defacing the worksite of non-union construction? Sounds pretty similar, and I don't like it. That's all I'm saying.
 
Nick,

If you are a concert promoter and ask, oh, Bon Jovi to play at your concert, are you going to give them some of the ticket money or are you going to expect them to do it for free?
 
N2212R said:
Nick,

If you are a concert promoter and ask, oh, Bon Jovi to play at your concert, are you going to give them some of the ticket money or are you going to expect them to do it for free?

I would try to work it out, but if I felt that Bon Jovi was asking for too much, or even if I felt I couldn't work it out with them and had to back out, I wouldn't expect Bon Jovi to organize his own concert and try to pull my customers away from me.
 
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