flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
That's not the worst idea in the world...
Really, you should have homebuilt, vintage, etc going to 18/36 and the rest of us with boring metal certified planes going to 9/27. Unfortunately, I don't think the numbers there are quite even, so it would make the 9/27 arrival even more packed than Fisk is now. In addition, you would need another team of controllers to staff the new gate, and those controllers would have to send a lot more planes around and back to the gate since they wouldn't have the option of sending two planes that are too close together (and/or have dissimilar performance) to the two different runways.I was going to agree with you, but then I noticed the wording that they want to have a new gate farther out than *Fisk*. That hopefully means, as depicted in the link if you click on it (https://www.eaa.org/eaa/news-and-pu...-/media/EE32D7082D3746E9BE714515E8CA6A2E.ashx) that they'll have some additional controllers at Ripon who can ensure that planes are more evenly spaced prior to Fisk.
Unfortunately, that also means that the jerks who cut in line after the start of the procedure just have more room to cut in line. IMO, they really should have some controllers back at the starting point, whether that's Ripon or Fisk, who are off to the side and can see type aircraft and tail number - Or better yet, develop an app for them to communicate with controllers farther down the line so that those controllers know what's coming in, and they can give instructions by tail number, which would drastically reduce confusion at Fisk (and even between Ripon and Fisk) and then maybe they could take the planes that weren't observed at the earlier point and send them away *AND* give them a violation.
This!
Yep. Sigh.
I actually ran into one of the controllers this year that I'd talked to the previous year and asked him about it. The increased spacing was due to runways being "shut down" repeatedly for mass arrivals, the Bone flyover and other military stuff, and turbine/warbird arrivals. It sounds like they're going to do something about that - They certainly shouldn't have had the Bone show up outside of the airshow time, and I think making the mass arrivals stick to their original time will help as well.
Huh?
Agreed. But, here's where I think the new procedure linked above *might* help, if they do it right. It sounds like the "bail-out" route to KFLD will give them potential for a "giant holding pattern" from Waupun to Ripon to Fisk to KOSH to KFLD and back to Waupun... Though it seems that it'd be best if there's a bail-out route directly from Fisk as well, to avoid getting more traffic right at KOSH. It'll certainly help space the planes out better than the mistake-around-the-lake holds. IMO, they should keep the Rush Lake hold from Fisk as a shorter pattern so that if two planes arrive too close together, they can send one around Rush Lake and back to Fisk and hopefully squeeze them back in rather than making them go all the way back around via KFDL and Waupun, since that is really going to make people mad!
A lot of us have been saying that for a long time - Institute a $1,000 landing fee at KOSH, waived when you show your copy of the NOTAM.
The real problem is just getting people to follow the NOTAM, and exit the side of the runway as soon as able. There's always gotta be some jerk who slows down to their "fast walk" taxi speed and crawls to the next paved taxiway. That's not how it should be done...
It'll be interesting to see what proportion of planes arriving at Oshkosh 2020 are ADS-B equipped. I would not be surprised if we start to see separate arrivals for ADS-B aircraft and non-equipped aircraft. It's much easier to space yourself out if you have ADS-B.
If you care whose fault something is, don't fly into Oshkosh. This whole crazy mess works because everyone works together. If you end up too close to another plane and Fisk Approach sends you back to the beginning, just do it with a smile. They can't possibly add "assign blame and direct traffic accordingly" to their list of responsibilities. And if you get mad, you're not going to be flying well and you greatly increase the chances you'll be in an accident. Look at it this way: Some jerk gave you an excuse to fly for a few more minutes. Be thankful.
Disagree... I've been on the Fisk arrival with a 1500-foot ceiling, flying at 1800 MSL (1000 AGL) and 90 knots up the arrival, and had a Cirrus decide that they could fly the 2300 MSL, 135-knot arrival at about 1830 MSL because of the clouds.
Frankly, the 2300 MSL arrival is abused and I think it should probably be restricted to twins, because there are too many people who use it because they can, not because they have to (which is what the NOTAM specifies - you are "unable" to maintain a speed as slow as 90 knots). Amen. The holds are only useful for very short, temporary closures. If there's an accident or the field closes for any other reason, just get on the ground somewhere. If traffic arrives at a perfect half-mile trail, it only takes about 20 minutes to saturate both holds.
Why not? The holds are to be flown at 1000 AGL and 90 knots just like the arrival. If you can fly the arrival, you can fly the hold.
Saturday is OK. Sunday is not.
