No lights -- after sunset

dmccormack

dmccormack

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
May 11, 2007
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10,945
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Lancaster County, Pennsylvania
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Display name:
Dan Mc
It's a beautiful night here (after several very nice days) and lots of folks are out flying.

But tonight -- after 9 -- I heard a small single rather low over the house. I stepped outside and looked up and saw - nothing.

I waited a few seconds thinking it was just behind the trees. Then, I noticed the faintest glow moving overhead as fast as the single sounded. I looked more carefully and could see the faintest outline of the airframe against the moonless sky.

No beacon, no nav lights -- no nothin' but the tiny glow inside the cockpit.

Now perhaps it was an electric failure and he/she was making a beeline to the nearest airport (opposite direction they were flying, BTW).

But if it wasn't, that sort of stuff really makes my skin crawl. Too often it's only the Big Sky and God's grace that keeps us from smacking into each other up there, but the odds of seeing that guy in the darkness are basically nil.

:(

Be careful up there.
 
At least he wasn't doing the Waldo Pepper thing, in and out of cloud....sigh.
 
Maybe this belongs under "Stupid stuff I've done and lived to tell about it..." but I've done it - long XC, forgot (neglected?) to turn on beacon/strobe/nav on departure (I fly from a private strip literally 30 miles from the nearest real airport), and came smoking into another private strip after dark. Didn't realize until taxi after landing that my strobes weren't working, and why.

Public airport would be another story, but still possible to make the same chain of mistakes.

Stupid? Sure. Rare? Probably not as rare as you might hope.
 
Correction: ...nothing you could detect. How was your night vision? Were your eyes night adapted? Was there any distracting glare which acted to obscure your observation of said aerial perp? Is 15w 12v light prohibited? Maybe you just saw him after his hand had slipped resulting in inadvertenly turning off the anti-collision lights and before he realized the mistake. Were you monitoring ATC or otherwise spatially aware of other traffic in his proximity?

Case dismissed.

I may have flown with lights off to better observe the night sky/city lights.
 
dmccormack said:
It's a beautiful night here (after several very nice days) and lots of folks are out flying.

But tonight -- after 9 -- I heard a small single rather low over the house. I stepped outside and looked up and saw - nothing.

I waited a few seconds thinking it was just behind the trees. Then, I noticed the faintest glow moving overhead as fast as the single sounded. I looked more carefully and could see the faintest outline of the airframe against the moonless sky.

No beacon, no nav lights -- no nothin' but the tiny glow inside the cockpit.

Now perhaps it was an electric failure and he/she was making a beeline to the nearest airport (opposite direction they were flying, BTW).

But if it wasn't, that sort of stuff really makes my skin crawl. Too often it's only the Big Sky and God's grace that keeps us from smacking into each other up there, but the odds of seeing that guy in the darkness are basically nil.

:(

Be careful up there.
Click to expand...

He /she Probably didn't file a flight plan either.:nono::nono::D
 
Maybe he got him some snazzy NVG's and was playing with them..
 
dmccormack said:
But tonight -- after 9 -- I heard a small single rather low over the house. I stepped outside and looked up and saw - nothing.

No beacon, no nav lights -- no nothin' but the tiny glow inside the cockpit.
Click to expand...

It's just a drug runner, no biggie. Around here they fly all the time and get killed often, because the continue to fly in any weather. This year one of them crashed into a lake near Colorado border and the lake was covered in floating bags of cocaine because he blew to bits on impact.

-- Pete
 
They were just trying to see the stars... or just forgot.
 
Flying home from my PP checkride (about 30 nm, at night) I was so excited I completely forgot to turn on the nav lights, which I didn't realize until after I'd landed! Fortunately, I did have the strobes and beacon on, so I was far from invisible, but still...
 
Richard said:
Correction: ...nothing you could detect. How was your night vision? Were your eyes night adapted? Was there any distracting glare which acted to obscure your observation of said aerial perp? Is 15w 12v light prohibited? Maybe you just saw him after his hand had slipped resulting in inadvertenly turning off the anti-collision lights and before he realized the mistake. Were you monitoring ATC or otherwise spatially aware of other traffic in his proximity?

Case dismissed.

I may have flown with lights off to better observe the night sky/city lights.
Click to expand...


I've also forgotten when breaking out of IMC to turn my strobes back on.
 
Thing is, you don't need to see them if they see you, so as long as you're well lit that covers a lot. It's not the wisest thing to do, but away from an airport environment, not particularly hazardous if operated low and extra vigilant for traffic.
 
Henning said:
Thing is, you don't need to see them if they see you, so as long as you're well lit that covers a lot. It's not the wisest thing to do, but away from an airport environment, not particularly hazardous if operated low and extra vigilant for traffic.
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This is absolute nonsense and irresponsible advice.

I'm now on the east coast, where I've seen more flying in two days than I would see in a month in western PA. There's regular air service to three local airports and several GA airports within a 15 mile radius.

I've had my share of "Where did he come from?!" moments while day VFR, a few IFR, but none at night.

It's impossible to see other aircraft running lights off at night.
 
dmccormack said:
but the odds of seeing that guy in the darkness are basically nil.
Click to expand...

Be careful. I've been married 16 years because of this stupidity.

Oshkosh, 1995. Gave a forum on FAR stupidities. One of them was the definition of "night", which points to a obsolete publication. Shooting the bull outside the forum with a dozen of my buddies when I heard this little voice behind me.

"I don't think that is right." Turned around to see this little Chicago blonde about chin high. "Lady, I'm a flight instructor and I know what I'm talking about."

She says, "I'm a flight instructor and you are wrong.". "Lady, I'm an FAA Aviation Safety Counselor and I know what I'm talking about." She says, "I'm an FAA Aviation Safety Counselor and you are wrong."

Clearly outmaneuvered, I say, "You want to go to dinner and talk about this?"
'
That was seventeen years ago.

Thanks,

Jim
 
Henning said:
Thing is, you don't need to see them if they see you, so as long as you're well lit that covers a lot. It's not the wisest thing to do, but away from an airport environment, not particularly hazardous if operated low and extra vigilant for traffic.
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Uh, huh. That's like Granpa's theory that you should turn off your car headlights so you can be warned by seeing the other guy's lights at the intersection.

It's a great theory until both of you do it.
 
mikea said:
Uh, huh. That's like Granpa's theory that you should turn off your car headlights so you can be warned by seeing the other guy's lights at the intersection.

It's a great theory until both of you do it.
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Which is exactly my point. If YOU don't do it, it does not greatly increase your risk when someone else does.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
No. It's still available on DVD.
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Excellent. I suggest you watch it. At the end of the film there's a shot of a page in a photo album. One of the pictures is of Waldo and it provides the year of his death. That year is not 1975. Here's your homework assignment; is the year of his death before or after the advent of ATC and IFR flight plans?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
I'm pretty sure that ATC and IFR flight plans existed in 1975.
Click to expand...

Yeh, if your are using the date of the recording of the movie. The movie is not set in 1975.

"Waldo" flew well before ATC and IFR flight plans.
 
roncachamp said:
Excellent. I suggest you watch it. At the end of the film there's a shot of a page in a photo album. One of the pictures is of Waldo and it provides the year of his death. That year is not 1975. Here's your homework assignment; is the year of his death before or after the advent of ATC and IFR flight plans?
Click to expand...

:rofl:

Waldo Pepper is a character played by Robert Redford.

It's fiction.
 
BellyUpFish said:
Yeh, if your are using the date of the recording of the movie. The movie is not set in 1975.

"Waldo" flew well before ATC and IFR flight plans.
Click to expand...

Pancho Barnes, among other things, flew in the Powder Puff race against Amelia Earhardt but never got a pilot certificate - even though her son became a CFI and tried to get her through it several times. She hated the stupid rules.
 
weirdjim said:
Be careful. I've been married 16 years because of this stupidity.

Oshkosh, 1995. Gave a forum on FAR stupidities. One of them was the definition of "night", which points to a obsolete publication. Shooting the bull outside the forum with a dozen of my buddies when I heard this little voice behind me.

"I don't think that is right." Turned around to see this little Chicago blonde about chin high. "Lady, I'm a flight instructor and I know what I'm talking about."

She says, "I'm a flight instructor and you are wrong.". "Lady, I'm an FAA Aviation Safety Counselor and I know what I'm talking about." She says, "I'm an FAA Aviation Safety Counselor and you are wrong."

Clearly outmaneuvered, I say, "You want to go to dinner and talk about this?"
'
That was seventeen years ago.

Thanks,

Jim
Click to expand...
That's a great story. :yes: Thanks for the smile. :)
 
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