NO FUEL: 3MY

Discussion in 'Lessons Learned' started by bbchien, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Greetings from Dogpatch, USA.

    Well the GPAA had it's 20 year tank inspection at 3MY today. A contractor pumped all the fuel out into a tanker trailer parked at the pumps and put a man into the tank for the inspection. After he was done, he setup a temporary pump from the tanker.

    First customer: the on base flight school's champ. Put 6 gallons in the header tank, student took an inch from the fuel drain (I did not see the sample), started it up; upon throttle advance it coughed and sputtered and died.

    Into the shop. Probably 4 of the gallons were water. Did the contractor have water in the bottom of his tank? Our staff had done the morning bottom sample of the tank, and it was signed off (and I'm pretty sure it actually was done).

    EVERYONE in the chain was lucky: The pilot, the CFI, the FBO, the Tank inspection contractor, the Greater Peoria Airport Authority. I had eyeballed the situation at 2:00 PM and chose instead to go to CTK for 52 g of fuel. When I returned, EVERYONE was in the shop.

    THE only damages here are mechanic time and the flightschool being down, as there is no "good" avgas on the field and it's notamed as such.

    Peoria IL (Mount Hawley Auxiliary) [3MY]: December NOTAM #48 issued by Kankakee IL [IKK] Service(s) fuel not available effective from December 12th, 2012 at 04:16 PM CST (1212122216) - December 14th, 2012 at 05:00 PM CST (1212142300)

    But the Director of the Authority clearly tried to save the 2.5 thousand $$ fees to bring Avfuel trucks onto the airport for fueling needs in the interim. This could have been really bad, but fortunately did NOT turn out that way.

    Bad move, by the Airport Authority.
    Always take enough of a sample to driain the line.
    Never buy fuel in tne non-normal condition.
    Why do I live in Dogpatch?
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  2. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    The truck has bottom drains, allow it to set over night and drain off the water.

    If you are really worried, put all the gas you buy in 5 gal cans and pour thru a chamois. ( a real one)
     
  3. AdamZ

    AdamZ Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Wow if the tanker had that much water in it I wonder what else is in there.
     
  4. Geico266

    Geico266 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Fuel can contained up to 1 tablespoon of water in solution per gallon that can come out of solution depending on the temperature of the fuel. Water separating from fuel happens all the time. Hopefully, it is burned up, or dumped out.

    4 gallons of water in a plane would be tough to burn up. :eek:

    Glad to see you back Doc. :yes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  5. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    We're accepting applications for living in Cincinnati. :)
     
  6. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    The name Peoria does not exactly bring to mind metropolitan sophistication. Nice to once again see your very difficult to read posts, Bruce.
     
  7. tonycondon

    tonycondon Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)

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    it was probably all the water in the bottom of the in ground tank. this is why the pumps on in the in ground tanks don't go to the bottom.
     
  8. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Could be. It's just amazing that nobody got hurt.
     
  9. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    No so amazing as all that. Your part of the country is pretty flat, after all.
     
  10. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Never fill up your car while the fuel truck is at the gas-station.
     
  11. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Condensation/frost on the inside of the contractors trailer ? What were the temps/humidity this morning.
     
  12. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Most likely the pick up from the tank for normal use never quite makes it to the bottom but they pumped it out this time and didn't bother to wait long enough for things to settle out. Usually, you're way safer buying from an above ground tank or fuel truck. Less contamination and easier to sump.

    The jury rigged fuel dispenser on the trailer here probably also was lacking the usual water traps and filter that most refuelers use as well as a backup.

    They're extremely lucky they weren't looking at a bigger liability issue. One guy gets into the air and the engine upchucks and this comedy of errors is going down.
     
  13. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    There is never enough exposed tank wall to produce 4 gallons of water.

    the only source of water to condense on the tank inner wall is the water contained within the tank.

    All under ground aviation tanks have a water sump at the lowest portion of the tank. Discharge Pumps are always plumbed to not pick up anything from that area. But when the tank is pumped dry you will hook up to the low point pick up so you will get all that is in that area.

    All certified aviation tank trucks are required to have a colessing filter which should have a collected the water, and held it with in the filter.

    My assumption is the contractor tank truck was not a aviation tank truck. Simply a tank on wheels that had non of the safety devices we need in aviation, with the expected results.
     
  14. Jaybird180

    Jaybird180 Final Approach

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    Hence the 2500 $aving in the OP
     
  15. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    What is amazing that someone would fuel from a tanker that was just filled by transferring fuel from a UST. My parents home has a 2000Gal UST for home heating oil. Every 10 years that thing had to be pumped, inspected and de-sludged. This was done in the summer to give it a couple of days to settle so it wouldn't clog up the filters when you fire up the furnace.
     
  16. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    An 8000Gal tanker trailer contains about 570grams of water vapor at 20C. Unless you have a number of gas exchanges to build up a layer of frost, it probably wouldn't amount to 4Gal.
     
  17. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well our tanks passed the pressurization check this AM, but no way is that fuel going back in the tanks......
     
  18. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Why not? Simple enough just to centrifuge it on the way back to the tank same way as I clean fuel between the storage tanks and day tank on a boat.
     
  19. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    A lot simpler than that, simply allow it to freeze, pump off the gas. (thru a chamois of course, to catch the ice that got ground up going thru the pump) but the truck filters should catch that.

    the bigger problem now that the tanks have been opened, is how to get the O2 out of the tanks so they don't blow while filling?


    drop 2 big blocks of dry Ice in the tanks and leave the lids open, the CO2 will be heavier (colder) and thus float the O2 laden air out the top as the dry ice melts.
     
  20. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Man, since everyone realizes what a "dogpatch" move the whole deal was, that old fuel is going away.
     
  21. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member

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    "Dogpatch" - that is perfect! :D

    ---

    Edit: if I had two TSIO360s relying on that fuel to carry my precious self (not to mention, my more-precious bride), that suspect fuel would be on outta here, too.
     
  22. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    If that fuel is bad, so is every other gallon of fuel that was in a tank with water.
     
  23. comanchepilot

    comanchepilot En-Route

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    The airliners are carrying lots of water in their tanks . . . no one ever sumps them til the D check!

    You might want to consider living someplace that is a little warmer and easier to get in and out of Bruce - and has a cost of living similar to Peoria.

    And perhaps closer to civilization - don't get me wrong - the inlaws used to be in Moline which is just like Peoria but I'd like to live someplace where I can see a major league baseball game without a 3 hour drive! A new play. Maybe a museum exhibition.

    I know Peoria has all that - eventually. Except for the baseball.
     
  24. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    No, you just blow down the correct number of CO2 or Nitrogen tanks to inert the tanks. Using blocks of dry ice is too time consuming and imprecise.
     
  25. Ianovic

    Ianovic Pre-Flight

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    That'd be time consuming too. Due to the mixing of gases, it is recommended to purge over 3x the tank volume in inert gas to remove the oxygen...

    ...just sayin...
     
  26. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    The fastest way I know of is to blow inert gas in. I was working on a 243,000 barrel tanker we burned Diesel fuel in nothing more than a blower fed ramjet to to do the job, but for one off compartment inerting jobs for welding on fuel tanks and such typically we use a measured quantity tank(s) load, typically NOT with cryogenic material. I guess some guys may have truck/trailer mounted nitrogen generators as well to take to sites.
     
  27. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    I worked for the NAVY refulers here at Whidbey, when we got a leaky trailer, we would pump it empty, wash it out, throw 3 cakes of dry ice in it, let it set over night with the lid open, and weld it the next morning. same with the 32,000,000,000 gallon in ground tanks at the fuel farm. only we used much more dry ice.
     
  28. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Leave it to the Navy to be behind the eight ball in best practice.
     
  29. PilotAlan

    PilotAlan Pattern Altitude

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    Cool! I'll send my resume.

    How much will you pay me to live there? :rofl:
     
  30. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Doesn't matter...it's not near enough.

    I do have a job for someone in Baggs, WY though...