Night Vision Goggles?

n20junkie

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Grant Farmer
First let me preface this with a statement, At this time, I am just spitballing, I have NOT checked enough applicable regulations at this time to see if this idea is even possible.

Ok, with that said. I am a 2,000+ hour Army aviatior, and a GA fixed wing pilot/owner. This summer I plan on getting my CFI-MEI and really look forward to training, but for the pleasure of it, I hope to get a crappy regional job also. Now I have hundreds of NVG hours, and was wondering IF it was possible, would anyone here be interested in a google NVG course over lets say a week. Now it will earn NO certificate, but would be an interesting way to expand your aeronautical experiance. Maybe toss in a BFR on the first day, as it will also help gauge the persons day capabilities. Discuss please if you like.
 
Interesting idea. I did some research on NVGs over a year ago. The problem with using NVGs in the GA area is that most of the aircraft are not designed for NVG use. Factors are the windshield, lights in the cockpit and lights outside the aircraft (strobes, landing light, etc). All of these can blind the NVG making it useless. On top of that, maintaining proficiency is difficult in the GA world.

There are segments of GA that are using NVGs though. Most notably are EMS operators. Several are getting FAA approval to use them.
 
As I recall, the Part 61 Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) out there has some extensive sections about NVG training and certification. I kind of ignored that section when it came out, since I don't foresee using it myself.
 
Can the option for this poll be: "Sounds cool, not interested?" ;)

I'd love the full deal training with the right hardware, but I'd never strap on a pair of NVGs and go fly the hills out here in Cali. Now if the Air Guard out here would let me borrow the Blackhawk for a night....
 
Interesting idea. I did some research on NVGs over a year ago. The problem with using NVGs in the GA area is that most of the aircraft are not designed for NVG use. Factors are the windshield, lights in the cockpit and lights outside the aircraft (strobes, landing light, etc). All of these can blind the NVG making it useless. On top of that, maintaining proficiency is difficult in the GA world.

There are segments of GA that are using NVGs though. Most notably are EMS operators. Several are getting FAA approval to use them.

When I was in the Navy, a few years back we started upgrading our EA-6B prowlers for NVG's. Almost everything electrical that emitted some type of light had to be modified. There were only two radio control head's that did not need modified as they were already compatible. Even the formation lights and positions lights has to be modified with new light covers.

I find it hard to believe that NVG's could be used in all but a few GA aircraft that have been modified. This is extremely expensive to do and you create problems with replacement part availability. The Navy supply system for a long time thought that NVG modified and non-NVG modified parts were identical and substitutes for each other. This continued for several years thanks to the bureaucracy. If you ever dealt with the military supply system, you would understand how difficult it is to make a change to the information on a part.

With that said, I think it is an interesting idea, but all the lights and radios may have to be turned down to a level that is not safe even for the safety pilot. I would love to try this if the course could be made safe enough for everyone involved.

David
 
Well the aircraft part is easy. Most older cessna training only have a flood light for night cockpit lighting. Change the filter to a NVG compatible blue/green filter, then add NVG post lighting. The radios would need blue/green filters as well. Stick to older digital nav/coms and that would be easy. The digital chronometers that the military uses are the same displays as the commercial models, with the changing of the glass being the only difference (davtron at least). The aircrafts external lighting could stay as is, we use normal lighting all the time for commercial airport operations. So with just a 337, the aircraft could be made to work with NVG's.
 
From the NPRM
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgNPRM.nsf/0/3A4B11D9C94CC9CA8625727D0052C43A?OpenDocument said:
One significant proposal under this notice involves pilot and flight instructor training and qualifications for operating with night vision goggles (NVG). In February 2000, FAA Flight Standards Service personnel and an FAA Aviation Rulemaking Advisory Committee (ARAC) met in Washington, DC to discuss establishing requirements for pilot and flight instructor training and qualifications for operating with night vision goggles. The ARAC was convened because the FAA recognized the use of NVGs had increased significantly--the cost of the equipment had decreased and the equipment itself had become easier to use. Hence, the aviation community asked the FAA to standardize the equipment and the corresponding training programs. The information shared and the decisions made from the February 2000 ARAC meeting are the basis for these proposed NVG rules

and

(16) Proposal to add training and qualification requirements for pilots who want to operate with night vision goggles.

Proposed Sec. 61.31(k) would require ground and flight training and a one-time instructor endorsement for a pilot to act as a PIC during NVG operations. Also, the FAA proposes to ``grandfather'' those PICs who previously qualified as a PIC for NVG operations under Sec. 61.31(k). Under proposed subparagraph (3), a pilot would not need the ``one-time'' NVG training and endorsement, provided the pilot can document satisfactory accomplishment of any of the following pilot checks for using NVGs in an aircraft:
Completion of an official pilot proficiency check for using NVGs and that check was conducted by the U.S. Armed Forces; or
Completion of a pilot proficiency check for using NVGs under part 135 of this chapter and that check was conducted by an Examiner or a Check Airman


(24) Proposal to provide for logging night vision goggle time.

Proposed Sec. 61.51(b)(3)(iv) would add a provision for logging ``night vision goggle time'' to show compliance with the training time and aeronautical experience required for acting as a PIC for NVG operations. The logging of NVG time would be permitted when performed in an aircraft in flight, in a flight simulator, or in a flight training device.


(29) Proposal to establish the criteria and standards for logging NVG time.

Proposed Sec. 61.51(k) would establish the criteria and standards for logging NVG time. This proposal would establish the minimum information required to be entered when logging time in a pilot's logbook. Per proposed Sec. 61.51(k)(3), the required information that is required to be logged for logging NVG time are the logbook entries covered under Sec. 61.51(b).

Under the proposal, a pilot may log NVG time using NVGs as the sole visual reference of the surface in an operation conducted in an aircraft at night (during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise) in flight. Alternatively, a pilot may log NVG time in a flight simulator or in a flight training device provided the flight simulator or flight training device's lighting system has been adjusted to replicate the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise.

Under proposed Sec. 61.51(k)(2), the rule would establish when an authorized instructor may log NVG time. The instructor must be conducting NVG training and must be using NVGs as the sole visual reference of the surface. The time must be in an aircraft operated at night in flight, or in a flight simulator or flight training device with the lighting system adjusted to represent the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise.

(32) Proposal to establish a recent flight experience requirement for acting as a PIC in a night vision goggle operation.

Proposed Sec. 61.57(f) would establish a recent flight experience requirement to remain PIC qualified for ``NVG operations.'' To understand the term, ``NVG operations,'' it is necessary to further clarify the term ``flight.'' The term ``flight'' means a takeoff and landing, with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern. Thus, a person who performs six takeoffs and landings, with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern, and uses NVGs to maintain visual reference may log six ``NVG operations.''

For a pilot to act as a PIC using NVGs with passengers on board, the pilot, within the preceding 2 calendar months, would have to perform and document the tasks under proposed Sec. 61.57(f) as the sole manipulator of the controls during the time period that begins 1 hour after sunset and ends 1 hour before sunrise. If the pilot had not performed and logged the tasks under Sec. 61.57(f), then the FAA would allow the pilot an additional 2 calendar months to perform and log the tasks under Sec. 61.57(f). However, the pilot would not be allowed to carry passengers during this second 2-month period. If the pilot had still not performed and logged the NVG tasks in proposed Sec. 61.57(f) during those additional 2 calendar months, then the pilot would be required to pass a NVG proficiency check to act as a PIC using night vision goggles.

To explain this ``2 calendar month'' currency criteria in proposed Sec. 61.57(f)(1), lets say for the sake of explaining this that the proposal becomes a final rule effective December 1, 2006. In this example, today is now February 24, 2007 and the pilot intends to act as pilot in command using NVGs with passengers on board a flight. The pilot would count backwards 2 calendar months from the date of the flight which means the pilot would count backwards from February 24, 2007, the month of January, 2007, and through the month of December, 2006 to December 1, 2006). Therefore, the pilot would have to have performed and logged the required NVG operating experience between December 1, 2006 and February 24, 2007.

Under proposed Sec. 61.57(f)(2), if a pilot has not performed and logged the required NVG recent flight experience between December 1, 2006 and February 24, 2007, then that pilot would have to perform and log the required NVG operating experience by April 30, 2007 to act as the pilot in command during March 2007 through April 2007 using NVGs, but could not carry passengers on board. Otherwise, per proposed Sec. 61.57(f)(2), the pilot is given 2 additional months to perform and log the required NVG operating experience, but during that period cannot carry passengers until he/she has performed and logged the required NVG operating experience.

(33) Proposal to establish a NVG proficiency check requirement to act as a PIC of a night vision goggle operation.

Proposed Sec. 61.57(g) would establish a proficiency check to be PIC qualified for NVG operations. Also, this proposal would establish a proficiency check to regain PIC qualifications for NVG operations when the pilot's NVG privileges have lapsed.

Proposed Sec. 61.57(g) would require a pilot who has not complied with the NVG operating experience requirement of proposed Sec. 61.57(f) to complete a NVG proficiency check to regain PIC NVG qualifications. The proficiency check would have to be performed in the same aircraft category that is appropriate to the NVG operation desired. The proficiency check would consist of the tasks listed in proposed Sec. 61.31(l) and would be administered by an individual listed under Sec. 61.31(l).
 
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Awsome, i see light, it is possible. Just have to finish converting the aircraft (I plan on trying on my c-150 first) and buy 12,000 dollars in night vision goggles.
 
Awsome, i see light, it is possible. Just have to finish converting the aircraft (I plan on trying on my c-150 first) and buy 12,000 dollars in night vision goggles.

Good luck with it. I see a limited but real market. I tried out some NVG gear while working an Ag contract a few years back (in the Southwest during summer, nearly all your work is at night) and it worked out ok. The best thing I found was using the monocular unit hinge mounted to flip up on my helmet and having my work lights on a switch on the stick (never thought of filtering them for NVG compatability....hmmmmmmm....). I think though that NVG technology in civilian aircraft will be supplanted by FLIR technology before NVG gets a serious foot hold since FLIR also overcomes many IMC issues such as low fog.... I think it has a greater usefulness in civil aviation, and the prices of FLIR units is coming down to the point where a lot of the boats I'm on these days are equipped. Figure in 5 years or so (actually available now in the corp jet market) you'll be able to get a PFD that will background with the FLIR display.
 
Well the aircraft part is easy. Most older cessna training only have a flood light for night cockpit lighting. Change the filter to a NVG compatible blue/green filter, then add NVG post lighting. The radios would need blue/green filters as well. Stick to older digital nav/coms and that would be easy. The digital chronometers that the military uses are the same displays as the commercial models, with the changing of the glass being the only difference (davtron at least). The aircrafts external lighting could stay as is, we use normal lighting all the time for commercial airport operations. So with just a 337, the aircraft could be made to work with NVG's.

When I was flying the B-52 with NVGs, we would start taping up the cockpit about 45 minutes prior to low level entry. We turned off all red lights and then taped over everything else with black electrical tape. Then taped compatible cyalume sticks on to the back of the control column to illuminate the primary flight instruments and engine gauges. This worked well for a few years until a friend of mine found LEDs at radio shack that were compatible. He built three AA battery powered arrays that we would rubberband to the glareshield to shine on the Aircraft commanders and Copilots instruments and on to the center engine gauges. Total cost was around $20. Boeing wanted around a milllion bucks to modify each aircraft!!

Could be a technique to consider if you wanted to operate a personal aircraft.

Maddog
 
Thats just crazy. I mean we have a few flip covers for our master caution capsule, and the fire pull handles. Other than that, the master caution panel is now filled with blue/green capsules (in the past it just had a glass filter) and other than that, we just use alot of green eyebrow/flood lights, and green lenses for the radios. Amazing you guys flew a b-52 with tape and chemlights :)
 
Thats just crazy. I mean we have a few flip covers for our master caution capsule, and the fire pull handles. Other than that, the master caution panel is now filled with blue/green capsules (in the past it just had a glass filter) and other than that, we just use alot of green eyebrow/flood lights, and green lenses for the radios. Amazing you guys flew a b-52 with tape and chemlights :)


Well heck, don't they fly the B-2s with lawn chars for crew rest beds?
 
Awsome, i see light, it is possible. Just have to finish converting the aircraft (I plan on trying on my c-150 first) and buy 12,000 dollars in night vision goggles.

My single lens NVG was less than $200 as I recall.
 
I fly googles about three times a month in the Blackhawk. I don't really see too much of a civilian use for it but I could be wrong. GA don't have to be tactical (no one is trying to shoot you down)...if you want to be see, or be seen, turn on a landing light.

I hope someone has a use for it so you can find your little niche in the market.
 
I fly googles about three times a month in the Blackhawk. I don't really see too much of a civilian use for it but I could be wrong. GA don't have to be tactical (no one is trying to shoot you down)...if you want to be see, or be seen, turn on a landing light.

I hope someone has a use for it so you can find your little niche in the market.

I see a lot of uses for it, not just tactical. As mentioned above, light fog may be one.

I would be interested, if the price were right.
 
I see a lot of uses for it, not just tactical. As mentioned above, light fog may be one.
I would be interested, if the price were right.

It sure does help to see lights through fog...I didn't want to come off as a "nay sayer" but I think better systems are coming down the line in the near future. I haven't flown with FLIR but what I've read and knowing the limitations of NVG's I would put stock in FLIR. My .02
 
NVGs do have their use in GA. Specifically EMS helicopters. There are operators that are using them to help with landing in remote areas at night. I'm sure there are other areas of GA that can use them as well. For the majority of GA though (us Joes), it's just not practical.
 
It sure does help to see lights through fog...I didn't want to come off as a "nay sayer" but I think better systems are coming down the line in the near future. I haven't flown with FLIR but what I've read and knowing the limitations of NVG's I would put stock in FLIR. My .02

I've played with FLIR, it's where I'd put my bets as well. NVG doesn't do anything of consequece for you night IMC, FLIR does. I was given FLIR to try out on a tug during fog season in the CA Delta, it worked very nicely.
 
We have flown with apache helicopters (AH-64's) with them on flir, and us with NVG's. The fog was getting bad, and they decided to take lead. We made it another 2 min before they said it was too bad for them as well. Goggles WILL cut threw fog very well. A set of GEN 3 goggles really do things so much better than what anyone has ever seen. Almost all of the complaints about chicken wire, big halos, and so on have been solved by ABC (automatic brightness control) and BSP (bright spot protection).
 
That's Gen I technology

Indeed it is (Gen I+...) and very effective in locating bush strips in the near total darkness typical of their realm, not to mention scanning for emergency landing locations in sparsly lit areas. The monocular NVG is cheap, small enough to keep in the flight bag at all times, and highly effective with minimal practice.
 
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Almost all of the complaints about chicken wire, big halos, and so on have been solved by ABC (automatic brightness control) and BSP (bright spot protection).

I agree. We have the AN/AVS-6(V) tubes which to my knowledge are the lastest version. I flew the older versions at Rucker and the Type 6 tubes are so much better. Although I think the new tubes have a "lighter and brighter" green that I don't care for. Its a small complaint for the improvement in the halos and clarity that the Type 6 tubes provide. I don't know if you can get that kind of clarity on the civilian side, if so i think it would be really expensive.

BSP is bright source protection...I would still think it is the same thing but you know there are....lets say "sons of Rucker" that would disagree. I thought of many other terms for these people but I sure I would be kick off the board for foul language. :)
 
There's one very practical use of NVG that pops immediately to my mind. Engine out emergency at night.

This obviously wouldn't be an ongoing normal operation; but if the fan stop spinning and all I saw was black, NVG's would be a Godsend.
 
There's one very practical use of NVG that pops immediately to my mind. Engine out emergency at night.

This obviously wouldn't be an ongoing normal operation; but if the fan stop spinning and all I saw was black, NVG's would be a Godsend.

A night scope would be easier to use and more practical. Whip it out, look for a spot, put it back and then land.
 
Like I said, I was just checking interest. I have found lots of information about the FAA's new integration of NVG's for rotorwing, but little for fixed wing. Personally, I believe that its kind of a disjustice. With a set of new goggles costing 10k, which in airplane terms isn't bad at all for the latest ANVIS 9 (AN/AVS 6 v6.0 for military guys). Personally, I do alot of flying at night. With over 600 hours of NVG time, I feel just as comfortable flying with them, as I do during daytime operations. Its kind of frustrating that I am stuck flying "naked" at night because of the FAA's slow movement on the technology. Hopefully in the comming years the technology will be embraced a little more. Really, for those that have not used Gen3, you have no idea the clarity, resolution that they have, and how it makes a moonless night light up like a bright sunday afternoon. I think this summer I will shoot some video while riding shotgun to show what it looks like for those that have never experianced it.
 
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