Night Currency vs. Night Landings

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Greebo, Apr 20, 2005.

  1. jcepiano

    jcepiano Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Just to be sure, the FARs don't prevent us from becoming night current under the supervision of a CFI or do these takeoffs and landings need to be completed solo?
     
  2. woodchucker

    woodchucker Line Up and Wait

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    As FAR as I know, you just need to be the manipulator at the controls. Even with a CFI, if you log 3 night take offs and landings with your instructor, it counts.

    Leave it to the government to make something so obvious so obscure.
     
  3. woodchucker

    woodchucker Line Up and Wait

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    From what I've learned, strobes and beacon are equivalent. You need one or the other, not both.

    Maybe I'm wrong?
     
  4. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    They can even be done with a non-instructor pilot who is night current (as long as they're willing to be PIC, with you as a passenger at the controls).
     
  5. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    Try New England if you think that's bad. Sunset at KMPV is 16:16 tonight... by early December it will be at 16:11... then it starts getting later again (even before the solstice, an interesting bit of astronomical trivia).

    New England should be in the Atlantic time zone... :mad2:
     
  6. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Pretty much correct and it will be good for your 'currency' requirements, I think you mean to say it won't do any good for your proficiency requirements, and I dispute that, I find the transitional light landing situation to be the most difficult to see accurately in because your brain is trying to access the sensitive rods for the low light part of the scene, however the light is still to strong for the chemical reaction in the vitreous that enables that process, so you are basically missing some of the picture at that point.
     
  7. JimNtexas

    JimNtexas Pattern Altitude

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    Are you crazy!??!! Don't you realize the logbook police SWAT unit is likely to kick down your door in the middle of the night, shoot your dog, and then shred your logbook if you don't use an atomic clock to compute when it's dark out??!
     
  8. nosehair

    nosehair Cleared for Takeoff

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    Actually, neither pilot needs to be night current. I don't have the reference handy, but a ruling a few years back says the other pilot, for the purpose of night landing currency, is not a passenger. Both may get current with each doing the required TO & landings as sole manipulator.
    Someone chime in with the reference?
     
  9. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I will be pleasantly surprised if this is true. I have seen no regs, or even news of this change. But I won't believe this until I see it in the FARs. Until then, I won't bet my certificate on this advice.

    -Skip
     
  10. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    You'll never see it in the FARs, you will find this kind of stuff in the Chief Counsel Interpretations Database in the FAA's web site, and I'm not sure if the position has been addressed or not. I can see the arguments that make either case, and neither case is particularly overwhelming, but the con is stronger.

    On the Pro, they are both pilots who could be sole manipulator of the flight physically.

    The Con though is that there is only one PIC, and unless the pilot in the other seat is a CFI, the FAA can have no reasonable expectation that one could save the other from a crash.

    I would be surprised to find it allowed.
     
  11. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You're just used to being at the west end of a time zone.
     
  12. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The interpretation is true, but NOT as described in the first quote as posted above. If it's a pilot and a *CFI*, neither is considered a passenger and neither needs to be current. Two pilots, one of them still must be current (and acting as PIC with all the other requirements that entails).

     
  13. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    That is as I expect it would be, two non night current pilots cannot fly together at night.
     
  14. nosehair

    nosehair Cleared for Takeoff

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    Ah, OK, it only applies to a non-current CFI.
    Thx 4 the correct reference.
     
  15. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    It makes sense that way.
     
  16. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    If you are not 61.57(b) current for night ops with passengers, you have three legal options to get current:

    1. Go up solo.
    2. Go up with a CFI
    3. Go up with a non-instructor pilot who is legal to be PIC at night with passengers and is willing to act as PIC while you fly the plane.
     
  17. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    Your strobes may or may not be legal as a sole-source anti-collision lighting -- you'd have to check the paperwork on the system, as some are but some aren't.
     
  18. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    That only counts for a CFI in the other seat, not another non-instructor pilot. See the Kortokrax interpretation. And that's true for 61.57(a) day currency, too -- see the Schaffner interpretation.
     
  19. tlglenn

    tlglenn Line Up and Wait

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    If I recall correctly the application for a rating asks how many night landings you have. So a landing after the end of civil twilight should be counted even if you can't use it for passenger carrying currency. And I think the aeronautical experience requirement for 100 hours of night flight time for ATP applicants can be partially met if you have an excess number of night landings.
     
  20. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    Correct.
    Also correct -- see 61.159(b) for details.