newbie advice for buying a Cessna 150

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kwc98

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kwc98
Greetings all,

In order to reduce the cost and increase the time, I am going to purchase a Cessna 150. Here are my questions (not all 150 specific):

If the TBO is 1800, is buying one with 800-1000 on the engine a stupid or smart move?

Should I only consider one with a very recent engine?

If the plane is 200-300 miles away.....how do I arrange a pre-purchase/annual/delivery? Do I need to hire a broker from the start? Can anyone tell me the usual rate for broker fees?

I am sure I am not asking the most important questions, but those are the ones that I am thinking about. I am thinking that I will pay more for a newer engine-ed plane.

thanks for the advice,
Ken
 
kwc98 said:
Greetings all,

In order to reduce the cost and increase the time, I am going to purchase a Cessna 150. Here are my questions (not all 150 specific):

If the TBO is 1800, is buying one with 800-1000 on the engine a stupid or smart move?

Should I only consider one with a very recent engine?

If the plane is 200-300 miles away.....how do I arrange a pre-purchase/annual/delivery? Do I need to hire a broker from the start? Can anyone tell me the usual rate for broker fees?

I am sure I am not asking the most important questions, but those are the ones that I am thinking about. I am thinking that I will pay more for a newer engine-ed plane.

thanks for the advice,
Ken
Click to expand...


o I expect that there will be lots of comments regarding whether or not, buying an airplane will reduce the cost of your training journey. I did it, but not for the purpose of saving money. There were no rentals in my area and I wanted to own my aircraft anyway. Just because you're a pilot, doesn't mean that ownership is best for you. I will let others hash over this first issue. Another thing is that if you buy an airplane, you will be much more committed to finishing your PPL and beyond.

o My Cessna 140 has an O200A out of a 150. I have been through the prebuy inspection and several annuals and feel that I do have some knowledge regarding these engines, plus I have LOTS of experience with engines in general beginning with growing up in my Dad's auto repair shop and being a car nut ever since. Google "Harry Fenton" and you can come up with some top notch information on this engine. Harry is a four cylinder Continental guru. Among that information, you will find that these engines, properly cared for, COMMONLY go over 3,000 hours. I bought mine when it was 1750 and have never regretted it. To me an 800 hour engine would be fresh. On the prebuy, it is important that the guy knows something about these little engines. If it has good compression, good oil pressure and is not making metal and you take care of it PROPERLY, preferably adding an oil filter if it doesn't already have one, you will very likely get hundreds and even thousands of hours from it.

o From where I sit, if the engine has a good history and passes the inspection I outlined above, I would not hesitate to buy one with an engine moving toward TBO, but the price should be adjusted accordingly.

o You won't necessarily need a broker, especially for a low end plane such as this. Call around and post on this forum where the plane is located and see if someone on here knows a competent and trustworthy IA for the prebuy inspection. You aren't buying a Citation. There are plenty of old timers around that know the 150 like the back of their hand. If nothing else, google the airport designator and call the FBO or the terminal and ask around. Once you accept the prebuy inspection, it would be ideal if the seller is willing to fly the plane to you himself. If he is willing to fly the plane that far, it says that he is probably confident in the condition of the plane.


If you carry through with the purchase after the prebuy, consider using the AOPA title service. It is expensive, but they will do a title search, among other things, and ensure that everything is on the up and up from a legal and title standpoint.

I bought "The Piggy" in the Summer of 2011 and agonized over the same questions you posted. It has all worked out wonderfully, since with coaching, I followed due diligence with the prebuy and with the business end of the deal.

Feel free to PM me, and if it would help, I can then give you my phone number if you would like to chat.

Hope this helps.

Edit: I passed up the chance to pitch the 120/140 planes. If the 150 you have an eye on doesn't pan out, consider a 120 or 140. They are extremely similar to the 150, especially the 140A model which has the exact same wing. Wonderful aircraft with a very supportive owner community.
 
Last edited:
kwc98 said:
Greetings all,

In order to reduce the cost and increase the time, I am going to purchase a Cessna 150. Here are my questions (not all 150 specific):

If the TBO is 1800, is buying one with 800-1000 on the engine a stupid or smart move?

Should I only consider one with a very recent engine?

If the plane is 200-300 miles away.....how do I arrange a pre-purchase/annual/delivery? Do I need to hire a broker from the start? Can anyone tell me the usual rate for broker fees?

I am sure I am not asking the most important questions, but those are the ones that I am thinking about. I am thinking that I will pay more for a newer engine-ed plane.

thanks for the advice,
Ken
Click to expand...

Engine TBO is really only a guideline to make the lawyers happy. Engines can break at 600 hours, or at 3000 hours. Prevantative maintenance and how you run it make a difference. If you average 100 hours of flying a year, that's a decade of flying before you need to think about an overhaul or replacement. Where are you located?
 
Ken,

Lots of variables in buying a used airplane. The 150 is a pretty simple airplane. I would look for one with a mid-time engine that has been flown consistently (say 50-200 hours per year) and has consistent yearly annuals as well. The reason to chose a mid-time engine is the fact that the engine is proven, yet has plenty of time left. A new engine may suffer from infant mortality and an engine at TBO is going to need rebuilding sometime in the near future even though you can run it past TBO.

There really is not much to pre-buy in one. The usual suspects, engine health, corrosion issues, condition of the glass, fuel tanks leaking, controls surfaces and cables.

Have someone that knows 150s look at the books and the plane for you. Save yourself time and money and forget about a professional on this one.
 
Another consideration: do you see the IFR training in your future? If so, perhaps look for 150's or 152's that are IFR ready.
 
Nice thing about owning, when your instructors ready for some training you have an airplane and wont have to worry about conflicts. He/she is ready, you are ready annd you have an airplane ready. Makes things easier for sure.
 
Very important: do you have a place to keep a plane? Hangar, tie down, etc. Some fields this is a challenge, others it's easy to find a home.
 
kwc98 said:
Greetings all,

In order to reduce the cost and increase the time, I am going to purchase a Cessna 150. Here are my questions (not all 150 specific):

If the TBO is 1800, is buying one with 800-1000 on the engine a stupid or smart move?
Click to expand...

As in many things, it depends. In what shape is the rest of the airframe? How was the engine cared for? What sort of panel does it have? How much is the purchase price?

kwc98 said:
Should I only consider one with a very recent engine?
Click to expand...

A brand new engine is far more problematic than one just past TBO.

kwc98 said:
If the plane is 200-300 miles away.....how do I arrange a pre-purchase/annual/delivery? Do I need to hire a broker from the start? Can anyone tell me the usual rate for broker fees?
Click to expand...

You don't need a broker, though some sellers will employ them. I wouldn't do a remote purchase of your first airplane, you're going to have to drive to go see it. 150's are fairly common, you should be able to find some examples in the Nashville area.

You should check with some of the pilots in the area to see who you want to maintain your aircraft. While you're at it you should check to see where you're going to hangar it (or tie it down).

kwc98 said:
I am sure I am not asking the most important questions, but those are the ones that I am thinking about. I am thinking that I will pay more for a newer engine-ed plane.

thanks for the advice,
Ken
Click to expand...

You've asked some good ones, but the one you should really ask is whether a Cessna 150 is the right airplane for you. For training it certainly is, but you'll be done training in a matter of months. Will a 150 still be the airplane for you? If it is, great. If it isn't, you're still stuck with it.
 
1600vw said:
Watch this video on TBO's and your views may change some on a set of hourly numbers that says something will be at its service limits.

http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1878459789001
Click to expand...


This video is great. I'm in the same boat. Finally looking to buy my first plane after 20 years of flying. 95% of the planes I've looked suffer from extreme disuse. I'd rather have a plane with 1000 hours on the engine and was flown 70-100 hours a year, than an engine with 200 hours and an overhaul from 1996. Then there are the people with high time engines that use them a lot but price them like they are low time engines. Unfortunately, the market does seem to base pricing off TBO, even if it isn't a good indicator.

Am I overly paranoid about the engine, probably. But it is also the most important part of a C150/C140. An overhaul will be well over half the price of the total. I'm waiting until the right thing becomes available. I've heard too many stories from fellow pilots about buying low time engines that sat a couple years, or had overhauls from long ago, that go downhill quick after being put back into service, and way before TBO.
 
don't buy an airplane that is only a trainer. Spend the extra $15k and get something that will be useful. My partner and I [at the time] bought a Cherokee 180C . . . I renewed mine - he got his - and I flew the hell out of it for 2 years before we sold it and I bought my own airplane.

You buy a trainer - you're limited and if you ever want to get your instrument ticket . . . . since most 150s are barely IFR capable you'll need to rent something else- and you will not keep your ifr current because your existing aircraft will not be comfortably capable. . .
 
the best thing you can do is keep asking questions. Some people will buy a 150 and fly it forever, but a lot of people use them as stepping stones.

I hated hearing this when I was new, but flying for a while gives you an idea of your mission and what you will need in a plane. Buying a plane then selling it can take up a lot of time, and in some cases cost.
 
steingar said:
You've asked some good ones, but the one you should really ask is whether a Cessna 150 is the right airplane for you. For training it certainly is, but you'll be done training in a matter of months. Will a 150 still be the airplane for you? If it is, great. If it isn't, you're still stuck with it.
Click to expand...

This, definitely. I shopped around for a lot of different potential airplanes of different sizes, and many were tempting because they seemed like (and probably were) a pretty good deal for a fairly low price. Ultimately though I settled on a Cherokee-235, because I had to admit that a 150 or even a 172 would not fit my needs down the road (mostly in useful load, in my case).

I had to bite the bullet up front, somewhat, because you can't get a PA-28-235 for the same money as a nice 150, but I haven't regretted it at all, and I've been able to go places and take people on trips that would have been impossible in a 150 and probably unsafe in a 172.

Which is not to say that a 150 won't meet your needs -- but I recommend looking beyond the training process; selling and stepping up is possible but probably harder and more expensive than buying your long-term airplane first.
 
And what engine time means really depends on how it was used to get those hours. If the thing has got those 1000 hours over the course of ten years, the thing probably is due for an overhaul (or at least a top) now. If it's been in a flight school and has 1000 hours over the past 20 months, then it probably will blast right through TBO still going strong.

Actually depending on what your goals are a 150, may not be a bad idea. If you are going to fly it for a few ratings and some mild XC, it's very economical and when you're ready to move up, it probably has held its value pretty well. On the other hand, if after you get your private you're going to load the wife and kids up and fly 400 miles, then you probably should start with a more cruise-capable platform.
 
comanchepilot said:
don't buy an airplane that is only a trainer. Spend the extra $15k and get something that will be useful. My partner and I [at the time] bought a Cherokee 180C . . . I renewed mine - he got his - and I flew the hell out of it for 2 years before we sold it and I bought my own airplane.

You buy a trainer - you're limited and if you ever want to get your instrument ticket . . . . since most 150s are barely IFR capable you'll need to rent something else- and you will not keep your ifr current because your existing aircraft will not be comfortably capable. . .
Click to expand...

+1. If you shop around you can find some good deals on Cherokee's and have a four place plane that is not as cramp as a 150. My first plane was a 150, then my wife became pregnant with our second child. :rolleyes: the 150 was sold shortly thereafter.
 
kwc98 said:
Greetings all,

In order to reduce the cost and increase the time, I am going to purchase a Cessna 150. Here are my questions (not all 150 specific):

If the TBO is 1800, is buying one with 800-1000 on the engine a stupid or smart move?

Should I only consider one with a very recent engine?
Click to expand...

Id look for one with 500ish TSMOH, frankly you're not looking at a exotic/rare plane, there are tons and tons of those planes on the market, you can afford to be picky.

kwc98 said:
If the plane is 200-300 miles away.....how do I arrange a pre-purchase/annual/delivery? Do I need to hire a broker from the start? Can anyone tell me the usual rate for broker fees?
Click to expand...

I've bought planes thousands of miles away, just do all your work over the phone, get plenty of RECENT pictures and scans of ALL logs, make a deal, sign. a sales agreement (there is a free template on AOPA) stating if everything is in order and its in whatever condition you'll pay XYZ for it.

Find a local shop to do the prebuy, any AP should be able to do it, it's only one of the most common planes on earth after all!

Id take little time off and be there for the prebuy, Id also fly her home, its one of the best flights you'll ever make!

As for the broker, I wouldn't bother, there are some OK ones, but 99% of the time its just another middle man who doesn't bring much to the table but will sure as heck add to the price.
 
The 150/152 is a niche airplane, you either love them or try to trade them immediately after purchase. They make a nice personal aircraft,or trainer. Be sure to define the mission before a purchase.
 
I have been flying an owners 150 for a few years and helping with maintenance. If you have affordable hangars where you live that will save costs, and also allow you to bring your own mechanic. If you're handy, changing your own oil will make things convenient too. Our 150 needed cylinders at 800smoh and we ended up doing sn overhaul because the case needed to be split. I would expect to replace cylinders half way between overhauls if you wanted to set up a budget. They run around 3000+ labor. If you get lucky and don't need them, spend the money flying it. Have a medhanic do a thorough prebuy and put together a list of upcoming maintenance and inspections that will be needed. Don't expect to save any money unless you are flying over 100hrs a year.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Advice - DON'T......You'll outgrow it almost instantly.
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I wish I had a dollar for everyone that told me that when I bought my 140 four years ago. Everyone is different, with different needs, desires and budgets. Making such a statement about someone that you probably have never met is quite interesting to read.
 
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