New Video on Angle of Attack Awareness Now on YouTube

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Old CFI
Biweekly FAA Safety Briefing News Update


Angle of Attack (AoA) devices can provide valuable information during maneuvering flight and have been identified as a mitigation strategy to prevent loss of control accidents.

Watch this video for an analysis of AoA devices in the general aviation (GA) environment. It promotes FAA policy concerning non-required/supplemental AoA based systems for GA airplanes. Use this information to make an informed, yet personal decision about what is the right choice for you. Every pilot is different, and every device has advantages and disadvantages for each individual in each aircraft type.

On YouTube: https://youtu.be/8JcjWnAJGKQ

Disclaimer: the above is all FAA wording -- got it in my Safety Briefing Update. Not selling nothin':nono:
 
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I've taken more heat from pilots for installing an AoA in the wagon than I can count.

You'd think I'm a big ol' puss or something.

I love the thing.
 
AoA is one of the best things in general aviation. If those blowhards don't want to be a little safer, just tell them "bye felicia" and enjoy that AoA.

It gives you a better feel for the aircraft, period. win-win.

Great video share!
 
An AoA is the best instrument for teaching someone to fly the wing.
 
I'm curious how these AoA indicators differ from a typical stall horn. Just more precise and begin warning earlier? Are there certain scenarios or configurations for which AoA is better than eyeballs on the ASI or when the stall horn wouldn't sound?

I've been hearing a lot about them but I've never flown with one before. It seems like a lot of people get slow either when the engine quits or when turning base to final -- I presume there must be a type of tunnel-vision going on and I wonder if those same people would have tuned out the AoA indicator as well.

The horn has saved my bacon a time or two on final and I've since learned not to get so fixated on my aiming point that I forget to watch airspeed and subconsciously adjust aim with pitch instead of throttle. Trying to say that I can see how one can get distracted and gradually lose track of airspeed, but is AoA really going to be the cure or is it addressing a different type of problem?
 
I swear it sounds like the guy in the video is saying "anal of attack" every time he says it.
 
txflyer said:
I've taken more heat from pilots for installing an AoA in the wagon than I can count.

You'd think I'm a big ol' puss or something.

I love the thing.
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I was one of those...Until I flew a plane with an AoA indicator & gauge. That thing is money!
 
Not to detract from the value of an AOA indicator but I think that the FAA and NTSB are not acknowledging that the majority of the types of accidents depicted involve a distraction that causes a complete disconnect from the instrument panel and all of the things on it. They also happen very quickly so a pleasant woman's voice saying "too slow" a moment before the stall horn goes off might be "too late"

They should have done a more realistic demonstration such as get into a slow steep, uncoordinated bank then pull back abruptly until the aircraft enters a spin. I'd like to see how the instrument reacts to that.

Maybe we need stick shakers.
 
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AoA's are supposed to give you a 30% margin of safety above the stall so if you stall you've been warned repeatedly before the ships stall horn goes off.
 
Like I said it would be nice to see someone demo an unintentional base to final stall/spin to see how much lead time you would get.
 
Silvaire said:
Like I said it would be nice to see someone demo an unintentional base to final stall/spin to see how much lead time you would get.
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It won't help you if you get that distracted. What it does do is put an indicator right there in your field of vision that shows you when you are getting too slow without ever looking down at the panel.

It's like a BRS, just not as expensive. It won't solve all problems, but I think it might help save some.
 
coloradobluesky said:
I have an angle of attack guage. Its my cowling.
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BZZZZZT! Wrong, and people with this kind of misconception are among those who could benefit greatly from an actual AoA indicator.

Assuming you're sitting in the exact same position and have a horizon in view your cowl can serve as a decent indicator of pitch attitude but that's almost completely unrelated to AoA.
 
Silvaire said:
Like I said it would be nice to see someone demo an unintentional base to final stall/spin to see how much lead time you would get.
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I've done this in my Baron (AoA equipped for many years) at a safe altitude and with the AoA indicator sitting in my field of view on the glareshield I can easily make a "max performance" steep turn a few knots above the stalling AoA without fear of actually stalling the wings. Losing both engines isn't a likely scenario but it has happened before.
 
It's a great tool and not expensive as aviation goes.

I just don't understand the pushback I hear from many pilots.

I'm a sea level flatlander pilot. The AoA has helped me a lot when I fly to higher DA airports. Especially higher DA and elevation airports when I'm close to gross. The ASI is not your friend under these circumstances.
 
txflyer said:
It's a great tool and not expensive as aviation goes.

I just don't understand the pushback I hear from many pilots.

I'm a sea level flatlander pilot. The AoA has helped me a lot when I fly to higher DA airports. Especially higher DA and elevation airports when I'm close to gross. The ASI is not your friend under these circumstances.
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The airspeed doesn't change at altitude, but your sight picture certainly will. Maybe that's what you meant to say.
 
Brad Z said:
The airspeed doesn't change at altitude, but your sight picture certainly will. Maybe that's what you meant to say.
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Not sure what you mean I meant, but if you're at gross at a very high DA you need to carry more airspeed than a guy like me is used to on final.

The AoA takes all the guesswork out of it.

It will surprise you the first time when you see the ground rushing by much faster than you're used to and the AoA is telling you to keep it there. If I went by the ASI, it would be marginal at best. Many say 'I can feel it in my butt' however your butt can deceive you on high DA ops fully loaded.
 
Work plane has one, great tool.

For small aircraft, like my 185, meh
 
txflyer said:
It's a great tool and not expensive as aviation goes.

I just don't understand the pushback I hear from many pilots.

I'm a sea level flatlander pilot. The AoA has helped me a lot when I fly to higher DA airports. Especially higher DA and elevation airports when I'm close to gross. The ASI is not your friend under these circumstances.
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How much would getting one installed look like all in these days?
 
mkosmo said:
How much would getting one installed look like all in these days?
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Mine was about $1300.00 all in. I had it installed when some other work was going on.

If your A&P trusts you, and will sign off your work, it's a simple installation for anyone mechanically inclined and would be considerably less.
 
coloradobluesky said:
I have an angle of attack guage. Its my cowling.
Click to expand...

Huh?

Pitch attitude and AOA are two different things.

EDIT - as far as price, they do seem very reasonable. I spent some time talking to a guy at Oshkosh - forget the company... Alpha something or other maybe? I feel like the price was 1400ish and then whatever it costs to have it installed.. And they had a really neat flip up one that looked like a mini HUD..

Something to consider for the future. A little extra safety buffer and I think they are kind of cool anyways.
 
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ollopa said:
I'm curious how these AoA indicators differ from a typical stall horn. Just more precise and begin warning earlier? Are there certain scenarios or configurations for which AoA is better than eyeballs on the ASI or when the stall horn wouldn't sound?
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Not sure where to start - here's a power-point document that explains why AoA indicators are superior not just for landing, but in virtually every phase of flight:

http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Support/AOAsupport/AOA slides.ppt

Basically, best angle of climb, fastest climb, best lift over drag, and so on, all occur at fixed angles of attack for a specific airplane configuration. By fixed, I mean the corresponding angles do not vary with changes in weight, load, altitude, and most other variables that change the corresponding Vx, Vy, and other V speeds.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Not sure where to start - here's a power-point document that explains why AoA indicators are superior not just for landing, but in virtually every phase of flight:

http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Support/AOAsupport/AOA slides.ppt

Basically, best angle of climb, fastest climb, best lift over drag, and so on, all occur at fixed angles of attack for a specific airplane configuration. By fixed, I mean the corresponding angles do not vary with changes in weight, load, altitude, and most other variables that change the corresponding Vx, Vy, and other V speeds.
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Several years ago I spent a couple of weeks flying one of our company bizjets all around the country with one of the manufacturer's certification test pilots. He gave me the pertinent AoA indexer references for the common V and performance speeds (like max endurance, LR cruise etc) and I could duplicate, at will and instantly, whatever speed I wanted for our given weight, temperature, altitude etc. without having to crack open the performance charts. We jotted down the conditions and after the flights he took me into the performance charts to verify the AoA derived speeds. It was eye opening. It's a great tool and useful for much more than figuring out your approach speed.
 
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Dead Stick said:
It's a great tool and useful for much more than figuring out your approach speed.
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I've heard that many times, from both military and civilian jet pilots, but it doesn't seem that the AoA products hitting the light GA market are designed with that in mind.
 
txflyer said:
Not sure what you mean I meant, but if you're at gross at a very high DA you need to carry more airspeed than a guy like me is used to on final.

The AoA takes all the guesswork out of it.

It will surprise you the first time when you see the ground rushing by much faster than you're used to and the AoA is telling you to keep it there. If I went by the ASI, it would be marginal at best. Many say 'I can feel it in my butt' however your butt can deceive you on high DA ops fully loaded.
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True airspeed and ground speed are increased, but you should still be able to fly the indicated airspeed as always. You may be more confident flying AOA but your IAS should not be that unfamiliar at high DA. :confused:

Jim Logajan said:
Not sure where to start - here's a power-point document that explains why AoA indicators are superior not just for landing, but in virtually every phase of flight:

http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Support/AOAsupport/AOA slides.ppt

Basically, best angle of climb, fastest climb, best lift over drag, and so on, all occur at fixed angles of attack for a specific airplane configuration. By fixed, I mean the corresponding angles do not vary with changes in weight, load, altitude, and most other variables that change the corresponding Vx, Vy, and other V speeds.
Click to expand...

That sounds pretty useful in theory but it probably depends on your choice of AOA indicator. This may be something to keep in mind when shopping for one -- does it have enough granularity and precision to distinguish the V angles and/or is it practical to remember which dot is which V angle or is there room to tape a custom calibration card.
 
txflyer said:
Not sure what you mean I meant, but if you're at gross at a very high DA you need to carry more airspeed than a guy like me is used to on final.

The AoA takes all the guesswork out of it.

It will surprise you the first time when you see the ground rushing by much faster than you're used to and the AoA is telling you to keep it there. If I went by the ASI, it would be marginal at best. Many say 'I can feel it in my butt' however your butt can deceive you on high DA ops fully loaded.
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ASI counts air molecules going over the wing. An indication of 70kts on a 3 degree glide path at 1 G will give the same AOA whether at 0 feet DA or 7,000 feet DA. Ground speed is the only thing that changes.
 
Captain said:
ASI counts air molecules going over the wing. An indication of 70kts on a 3 degree glide path at 1 G will give the same AOA whether at 0 feet DA or 7,000 feet DA. Ground speed is the only thing that changes.
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I'm sure you know it, but GS may or may not change... TAS is what changes.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I'm sure you know it, but GS may or may not change... TAS is what changes.
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I was responding to a poster who refers to faster ground speed. Obviously a faster TAS is responsible for that.
 
ollopa said:
That sounds pretty useful in theory but it probably depends on your choice of AOA indicator. This may be something to keep in mind when shopping for one -- does it have enough granularity and precision to distinguish the V angles and/or is it practical to remember which dot is which V angle or is there room to tape a custom calibration card.
Click to expand...

Just did a quick google image search for AOA indicators. Some seem to have a continuous indication, which would be useful for "flying the wing" as some call it but others just look like stall-avoidance displays with big blocky, arbitrary symbols that look like they're designed for blind people. Those aren't going to be very useful for fine AoA adjustments I dare say.

I see safety benefit to AoA in accelerated flight - particularly turns at slow speed. We may know what our stall speed is, but we usually don't know what it is in a randomly-banked uncoordinated panic turn (classic base-to-final). And that's a big problem that AoA solves.

Your IAS may be just fine but a bit low on base but when you start your turn to final late and throw in an excessively banked turn to compensate, what's your accelerated stall speed in that turn? You'd likely have no idea. In that one situation, AoA could save your butt where flying mere IAS might not.

I'd argue there are plenty of ways to avoid that situation but the fact is that base-to-final accidents have been common.

And while I see some benefits to AoA, it is not on my upgrade list.
 
petrolero said:
...Your IAS may be just fine but a bit low on base but when you start your turn to final late and throw in an excessively banked turn to compensate, what's your accelerated stall speed in that turn? You'd likely have no idea. In that one situation, AoA could save your butt where flying mere IAS might not...
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I can't ask them because most of them are dead but I doubt the typical base to final stall/spin victim was even looking at his ASI or turn coordinator when it happened. Why do we assume that they are going to suddenly be focused on a new instrument and not enraptured in the complete ground reference mode that is the root cause of the problem?
 
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