New TFR, why?

Whoa. Talk about a pop-up TFR. Two hours and 13 minutes prior to start time. That's definitely one that would be very easy to accidentally bust. 3500-18000, no airports under it, no connecting blocks. Mostly Golf and Echo airspace, so you don't need to be talking to anyone. It's near Goodfellow AFB, but that's supposedly closed. I got nothing for ya.
 
Where is the old PAVE PAWS radar site - I think it's just a bit further south, closer to Eldorado? Maybe somebody coming to visit that?
 
Are there any ranchers out there protesting the government use of land?
 
arnoha said:
Whoa. Talk about a pop-up TFR. Two hours and 13 minutes prior to start time. That's definitely one that would be very easy to accidentally bust. 3500-18000, no airports under it, no connecting blocks. Mostly Golf and Echo airspace, so you don't need to be talking to anyone. It's near Goodfellow AFB, but that's supposedly closed. I got nothing for ya.
Click to expand...

And takes a chunk out of the Class D also. Really curious.
 
Actually, let's think about this. It does not extend to the surface, so whatever aircraft it's protecting has to be able to make it there without the security cordon. That means it's not VIP transport, which would be inverted from that. Also means that it's not for anything tethered, like a balloon. Or anything originating from the ground, like rocket or artillery fire. Whatever it is, it's landing and taking off somewhere else.

The 3500' seems suspiciously like it's putting 500' + rounding over the highest obstacle, at 2875'. That suggests the aircraft is maneuvering. So does the large swath of selected air, all the way up to 18,000. If the aircraft can climb to 18,000 and do so inside that small space, it's probably a turbine, probably a fixed-wing, and probably fairly high performance.

Given that you're allowed to enter with a code means whatever it is can be engaged by ATC in some fashion. Also suggests that it will not be a live-fire exercise of any variety, as less than five miles is not enough to contain that.

I would assume it's military or police. Could be piloted, could be a drone. I'd probably put my money on a drone test of some sort. DHS, maybe?
 
arnoha said:
Actually, let's think about this. It does not extend to the surface, so whatever aircraft it's protecting has to be able to make it there without the security cordon. That means it's not VIP transport, which would be inverted from that. Also means that it's not for anything tethered, like a balloon. Or anything originating from the ground, like rocket or artillery fire. Whatever it is, it's landing and taking off somewhere else.

The 3500' seems suspiciously like it's putting 500' + rounding over the highest obstacle, at 2875'. That suggests the aircraft is maneuvering. So does the large swath of selected air, all the way up to 18,000. If the aircraft can climb to 18,000 and do so inside that small space, it's probably a turbine, probably a fixed-wing, and probably fairly high performance.

Given that you're allowed to enter with a code means whatever it is can be engaged by ATC in some fashion. Also suggests that it will not be a live-fire exercise of any variety, as less than five miles is not enough to contain that.

I would assume it's military or police. Could be piloted, could be a drone. I'd probably put my money on a drone test of some sort. DHS, maybe?
Click to expand...

clapping_joker_batman_dark_knight.gif


+1 on that one, that seems to be the most logical conclusion.
 
arnoha said:
The chunk of D is probably just collateral damage to make the shape easy to understand.
Click to expand...

No doubt - but the drone theory elicited above dovetails nicely with the Class D chunk - it would give a way to work the drone in protected airspace as well as transition to a landing airport all in controlled airspace. I'm not thinking Class D was collateral damage at all, I think it was intentional.

I grew up in San Angelo, quite familiar with the airspace, if you were going to pick a chunk of airspace that needed to be connected to the Delta but wouldn't interfere with other normal air traffic, this is exactly where you would put it.
 
Last edited:
Just overflew the VOR last week. Can't remember what's down there, usually pretty much nothing (BFE).
The interesting thing is that the TFR is not down to SFC which hints that it might not be a VIP TFR. I'll be flying over again in a week or so, I'll save the WP in my FF and check what's down there for y'all. :)
 
airguy said:
No doubt - but the drone theory elicited above dovetails nicely with the Class D chunk - it would give a way to work the drone in protected airspace as well as transition to a landing airport all in controlled airspace. I'm not thinking Class D was collateral damage at all, I think it was intentional.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, good point on that. That gives you a 1 mile, thousand foot window to fly into the space with. Quite a flyable window. Even more so the drone theory, as I can't think of a piloted aircraft that would need that protection from a public-use airport.
 
arnoha said:
Oh yeah, good point on that. That gives you a 1 mile, thousand foot window to fly into the space with. Quite a flyable window. Even more so the drone theory, as I can't think of a piloted aircraft that would need that protection from a public-use airport.
Click to expand...

And extending all the way to 17,999 gives easy access to Class A to go anywhere else they would want, but also implies a certain level of aircraft performance.

We do have customs/border patrol located on the field, my money is on them with a new toy.
 
Last edited:
airguy said:
And extending all the way to 17,999 gives easy access to Class A to go anywhere else they would want, but also implies a certain level of aircraft performance.
Click to expand...

Also true. However, there are not too many aircraft that can climb 14,000' in 5 miles. Circle up would be possible, though. I would think anything that can do the flight levels could also play nice with regular traffic, but who knows.

Next question is: why only two hours notice? Suggests it may not be a test.
 
Short notice, no fanfare equals less attention from the locals. If CBP has a new toy there is no advantage advertising it. I notice that there are two new TFR's for the same location covering the next 48 hours now.
 
We like the on field cafe at KSJT. Mathis Field has the best Chinese in San Angelo.

While strolling down the ramp to/from the FBO and the terminal building, I have on occasion glanced inside open hangars that held aircraft with very subdued USAF markings and paint schemes using shades of dark greys and blues that I've never seen before.
I know the north hangars have GA jet aircraft outfitted with F-16 radar that belong to CBP or some similar agency.
 
Any webcams at ksjt?

Someone start listening to tower tomorrow at 7:00am (CST).

Failing that, someone needs to drive down Door Key Rd. tomorrow morning with binos and a camera!

(If that curious.)
 
Coincidentally, our local pilots group email just sent out a notice to be aware of these tfrs which are associated with CBP Drones, so there you have it.
 
kkoran said:
The airfield closed in 1975, but the base remains open and provides Intel training.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure, but I think that if it still looks like an airport, the sectional will keep showing it as closed.

We have several around here that have been closed for possibly decades now and still show on the sectional - probably because they still look like airports.
 
Yay, us! So, turbine, check (turboprop). TFR is siamesed to the Delta deliberately, check. CBP it was, check. Fixed wing drone, check. Circle up to Class A, check.

We win all the interwebs!:)

View attachment 43773
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top