New radios

[Tom-D]

http://www.mglavionics.com/html/radios.html

no more racks, expensive head sets, or knobs.

the active noise canceling built into the radio, not the head sets, intercom built into the radio. interfaces with the glass dash.

any one have one?

 

[gismo]

http://www.mglavionics.com/html/radios.html

no more racks, expensive head sets, or knobs.

the active noise canceling built into the radio, not the head sets inter come built into the radio. interfaces with the glass dash.

any one have one?

It looks like a nice comm only radio but not all that impressive. No TSO (experimental only), cheap membrane buttons (wanna bet on how long the legends on those buttons last?) and a cheap LCD display (hopefully polarized in the direction that allows viewing with polarized sunglasses).

There's no ANR built in, that is simply infeasible as ANR requires something to sense the sound at/in the earcups. Their description about how their VOX/VOGAD reduces noise indicates that the company (or at the very least whoever writes their advertising content) doesn't understand that ANR is intended to reduce ambient noise reaching the wearer's ears when no mike is open vs their product's ability to reduce cabin noise picked up by the microphone when the squelch is open.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

the active noise canceling built into the radio, not the head sets inter come built into the radio.

Hmmm. Something tells me they don't understand what ANR does:

VOGAD (or voice-operated gain-adjusting device) works by adjusting the gain of the microphone as your speak based on the level of your voice. This has the effect of eliminating background/engine noise between your words as you speak and can be used with simple passive headsets to produce the results normally obtained using expensive active noise cancelling headsets.

Yeah... ANR is something that happens in the earcups. They're talking about adjusting mic levels. Two completely different things.

Otherwise, it sounds like a nice radio, but when they say things like this it makes me skeptical of their other claims.

 

[Old Geek]

Cute but will be an absolute ***** to tune in turbulence. They should have spent another $15 and put in a twisty knob for frequency changes.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Cute but will be an absolute ***** to tune in turbulence. They should have spent another $15 and put in a twisty knob for frequency changes.

Just buy a dozen of them and that problem is solved.

 

[Tom-D]

Cute but will be an absolute ***** to tune in turbulence. They should have spent another $15 and put in a twisty knob for frequency changes.

How many times do light aircraft go into heavy turbulence where you can't tune radios?

we all know what Part 43- Preventive maintenance rules say about owners/operators changing radios, could they change this one?

 

[Tom-D]

It looks like a nice comm only radio but not all that impressive. No TSO (experimental only), cheap membrane buttons (wanna bet on how long the legends on those buttons last?) and a cheap LCD display (hopefully polarized in the direction that allows viewing with polarized sunglasses).

There's no ANR built in, that is simply infeasible as ANR requires something to sense the sound at/in the earcups. Their description about how their VOX/VOGAD reduces noise indicates that the company (or at the very least whoever writes their advertising content) doesn't understand that ANR is intended to reduce ambient noise reaching the wearer's ears when no mike is open vs their product's ability to reduce cabin noise picked up by the microphone when the squelch is open.

there are no requirements for TSOed radios in production built aircraft.


how do you know the company has not developed a circuit that will at as ANC in the head set?

why are pilots Skeptical of new technology?

want to save the buttons? buy the nav system they sell and change freqs there.

 

[Old Geek]

How many times do light aircraft go into heavy turbulence where you can't tune radios?

Well, I didn't say "heavy turbulence". OTOH, every time I cross the ridge between me and the Pacific, I get tossed around enough that I have trouble pressing the buttons on my GPS.

 

[gismo]

there are no requirements for TSOed radios in production built aircraft.

That may be true but their web page says right up front that the radio is for experimental aircraft only.

how do you know the company has not developed a circuit that will at as ANC in the head set?

Because that's not what the text says. And besides they're selling radios not headsets.

why are pilots Skeptical of new technology?

It's not the new technology (and I really don't see any significant "new technology" here), it's the inflated, and often (as in this case) misleading material from the marketing department that I'm skeptical of.

want to save the buttons? buy the nav system they sell and change freqs there.

I already have it but I suspect it's far less likely that anyone with a GNS480 or GTN650 would put one of these "new tech" radios in their panel.

And just for the record, I think this might make a fine (comm only) radio for a two place VFR homebuilt or LSA even though it won't do anything to eliminate the need for ANR headsets.

 

[Keith Lane]

Because that's not what the text says. And besides they're selling radios not headsets.

Unless you consider these.

Not ANR, but if nits need to be picked.....
​

 

[PilotAlan]

It looks like a nice comm only radio but not all that impressive. No TSO (experimental only)

A radio does not require a TSO.

The KX170 is not TSOd, nor is the KX155, nor the ICOM A-200.
(The KX175 is, the KX165 is, and the ICOM A-200 has a TSO version)

Neither of the radios in my plane are TSOd.

 

[PilotAlan]

That may be true but their web page says right up front that the radio is for experimental aircraft only..

No it doesn't.

Note: This radio is non-TSO’d and is for use in Experimental and light-sport aircraft and aircraft not having a Type Certificate prohibiting the use of non-TSO’d radios and equipment.

Only if your certificated aircraft's Type Certificate requires TSOd radios.

So if your Type Certificate doesn't prohibit non-TSOd radios (like 99% of the aircraft out there, no problem.

 

[ChrisK]

In theory there could be a pickup (mic) on the radio that samples the cabin noise and spits an antiphase sound back through the headset. I don't see why you can't have an ANR radio with a conventional headset.

Edit - I just took a closer look at the video. It looks like they're saying by adjusting the mic gain dynamically you get similar performance to what you'd get with an ANR headset in terms of understanding what someone else says over the intercom. Unfortunately once they said "ANR", they completely confused the issue.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

In theory there could be a pickup (mic) on the radio that samples the cabin noise and spits an antiphase sound back through the headset. I don't see why you can't have an ANR radio with a conventional headset.

About the only reason this might not work well is that the ANR microphone is in a different location from the headset. Vibrations on the radio through the panel could be picked up and "canceled" causing annoying sounds in the headset. Conversely, noise around the headset may not be picked up in the radio so that sound insn't canceled. I'm not saying it definitely won't work, or the radio couldn't be mounted so it is vibrationally isolated from the panel- just a guess.

 

[gismo]

In theory there could be a pickup (mic) on the radio that samples the cabin noise and spits an antiphase sound back through the headset. I don't see why you can't have an ANR radio with a conventional headset.

The reason that won't work is that the cancelling signal has to be nearly 180° out of phase with the sound reaching the outer ear. To do that the phase of the original sound has to be known with good accuracy and the phase of a 120 Hz sound (three blade prop at 2400 RPM) changes about 40° per foot of distance in an open field and potentially more in a closed cockpit due to standing waves. Most if not all ANR designs sense the ambient sound inside the earcups to obtain the maximum benefit.

 

[ChrisK]

This sounds good to me..

 

[denverpilot]

I really dislike the choice of membrane buttons. They're flaky. Using them for tuning is a double negative.

The variable gain sounds gimmicky but I'd have to hear it. How does it sound if you DO have a quality ANR headset? It appears they did it to avoid wearing out the volume buttons and the patience of the person using membranes that are a few years old and acting up by then.

That said, the radio seems to meet a market niche. They could have easily certified another version in a traditional half sized rack mount but didn't.

They probably (rightly) assume that if you're replacing rack mount stuff today, a Garmin GPS with their venerable built in Comm is going in the slot, so no point in bringing another rack mount to market.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

The reason that won't work is that the cancelling signal has to be nearly 180° out of phase with the sound reaching the outer ear. To do that the phase of the original sound has to be known with good accuracy and the phase of a 120 Hz sound (three blade prop at 2400 RPM) changes about 40° per foot of distance in an open field and potentially more in a closed cockpit due to standing waves. Most if not all ANR designs sense the ambient sound inside the earcups to obtain the maximum benefit.

Nice analysis

 

[poadeleted21]

I like, kinda sorta wished I had gone with somethign like this my Cherokee stack is limited enough and it looks like it's priced right for a comm, I installed a tagged KY197 for a 2nd comm but could have put in another NAV and stuck this somewhere else.

 

[Tom-D]

I like, kinda sorta wished I had gone with somethign like this my Cherokee stack is limited enough and it looks like it's priced right for a comm, I installed a tagged KY197 for a 2nd comm but could have put in another NAV and stuck this somewhere else.

I used one of these
http://www.valavionics.com/productPages/comms/commRadios.htm#2000

 

[PilotAlan]

I really dislike the choice of membrane buttons. They're flaky. Using them for tuning is a double negative.

Yup. It's clearly designed to have the freqs loaded by their MFD, with manual entry as the exception.
For the price, it's very nice. If you put a freq knob on it, it'd be a killer. I'd pull out my credit card right now.
Maybe with Oshkosh prices.

 

[Tom-D]

Yup. It's clearly designed to have the freqs loaded by their MFD, with manual entry as the exception.
For the price, it's very nice. If you put a freq knob on it, it'd be a killer. I'd pull out my credit card right now.
Maybe with Oshkosh prices.

Think about the EXP builders that will save the panel space by not having to install radio racks.

 

[poadeleted21]

I used one of these
http://www.valavionics.com/productPages/comms/commRadios.htm#2000

I looked at that one, I have an all king stack so i went with the KY197, I'd like a 2nd NAV in addition to my KLN89B and KX155 but I don't have the panel space in the center stack. I might have bought one of these in lieu of the KY197 and put a KN53 there instead and installed this as a backup comm in the blank panel hole I had.

 

[slacktide]

http://www.mglavionics.com/html/radios.html

no more racks, expensive head sets, or knobs.

the active noise canceling built into the radio, not the head sets, intercom built into the radio. interfaces with the glass dash.

any one have one?

It looks cheezy. Membrane switches are short-lived and annoying. The color scheme reminds me of clown vomit. For some reason, there is an icon of a dolphin on it, which might make sense if it were a marine radio, but dolphins don't fly, at least not very far. At a minimum they could have picked a penguin, or an emu, or even a dodo.

If I needed to save panel space I'd be looking to VAL or ICOM for a traditional radio stack mounted unit, and to Becker, Flightline, Micro-Air, or XCOM for a round mount unit. They all make a COMM that is in the same price range, fits into an ever smaller space, (2 1/4 round) and do not look like clown vomit.

 

[Tom-D]

It looks cheezy. Membrane switches are short-lived and annoying. The color scheme reminds me of clown vomit. For some reason, there is an icon of a dolphin on it, which might make sense if it were a marine radio, but dolphins don't fly, at least not very far. At a minimum they could have picked a penguin, or an emu, or even a dodo.

If I needed to save panel space I'd be looking to VAL or ICOM for a traditional radio stack mounted unit, and to Becker, Flightline, Micro-Air, or XCOM for a round mount unit. They all make a COMM that is in the same price range, fits into an ever smaller space, (2 1/4 round) and do not look like clown vomit.

The Becker is the best of that bunch. but they aren't cheap
Becker AR 4201 aircraft radio list price... $1595.00

 

[slacktide]

The Becker is the best of that bunch. but they aren't cheap
Becker AR 4201 aircraft radio list price... $1595.00

I agree, the Becker seems the pick of that litter to me. A buddy at AWO has one in his glider. Spruce has it for $1395, compared to $1065 for the MGL... OTOH, The Flightline is only $699! If you are penny pinching, I don't think you will find a panel-mounted transceiver cheaper than that.

To answer your earlier question, no, an owner/operator could not legally remove/replace the MGL unit without A&P supervision. Although it appears to be a 3ATI sized hole which would allow either a front-panel mount or a back-panel mount, it does not use tray mounted connecters which would be required for it to be considered preventative maintenance. Owner/operators are not qualified to remove and re-install DB15 connectors.

 

[Tom-D]

To answer your earlier question, no, an owner/operator could not legally remove/replace the MGL unit without A&P supervision. Although it appears to be a 3ATI sized hole which would allow either a front-panel mount or a back-panel mount, it does not use tray mounted connecters which would be required for it to be considered preventative maintenance. Owner/operators are not qualified to remove and re-install DB15 connectors.

That's the major reason I posted the radio, to make notice it's not a slide in radio, which pretty much narrows the market to the EXP builders using the EFFIS they mate to it.