New PTS standards, in effect 6/2012

Tracey,

I think I'm missing something. I opened the doc in your link and it was Nov 2011.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Tracey,

I think I'm missing something. I opened the doc in your link and it was Nov 2011.
Click to expand...

The document is dated November 2011, but does not become effective until June 2012. On the cover page of the actual document it reads: "November 2011 (Effective June 1, 2012)"
 
Oops...meant to preview, not post...

Anyway, I'm looking at the PTS side-by-side, and there are tons of small changes, although none of them appear to be all that huge... I was hoping ot make a list of the changes, but that'll take a while. ;)
 
Last edited:
Any CFI's care to chime in? I'm interested if they can immediately spot the differences. What has changed?
 
Note: This is just for the ASEL parts of the PTS and only include things that were added or obviously changed...my definition of obvious is anything but obvious and is certainly ambiguous. :p

Added to Weather Information:

h. SIGMETs and AIRMETs.
i. PIREPs.
j. windshear reports.
k. icing and freezing level information.

Added to National Airspace System:

Exhibit satisfactory knowledge of special flight rules areas

Added to Taxiing:

5. Exhibits procedures for steering, maneuvering, maintaining taxiway, runway position, and situational awareness to avoid runway incursions.
6. Exhibits proper positioning of the aircraft relative to hold lines.
7. Exhibits procedures to insure clearances/instructions are received and recorded/read back correctly.
8. Exhibits situational awareness/taxi procedures in the event the aircraft is on a taxiway that is between parallel runways.
9. Uses a taxi chart during taxi.
11. Utilizes procedures for eliminating pilot distractions.

Added an entirely new task for runway incursion avoidance:

Task F: Runway Incursion Avoidance (ASEL and ASES)

References: FAA-H-8083-3, FAA-H-8083-25; AC 91-73, AC 150-5340-18; AIM.

Objective: To determine that the applicant exhibits knowledge of the elements of runway incursion avoidance by:

1. Exhibiting distinct challenges and requirements during taxi operations not found in other phases of flight operations.
2. Exhibiting procedures for appropriate cockpit activities during taxiing including taxi route planning, briefing the location of HOT SPOTS, communicating and coordinating with ATC.
3. Exhibiting procedures for steering, maneuvering, maintaining taxiway, runway position, and situational awareness.
4. Knowing the relevance/importance of hold lines.
5. Exhibiting procedures to ensure the pilot maintains strict focus to the movement of the aircraft and ATC communications, including the elimination of all distractive activities (i.e. cell phone, texting, conversations with passengers) during aircraft taxi, takeoff and climb out to cruise altitude.
6. Utilizing procedures for holding the pilot’s workload to a minimum during taxi operations.
7. Utilizing taxi operation planning procedures, such as recording taxi instructions, reading back taxi clearances, and reviewing taxi routes on the airport diagram.
8. Utilizing procedures to insure that clearance or instructions that are actually received are adhered to rather than the ones expected to be received.
9. Utilizing procedures to maintain/enhance situational awareness when conducting taxi operations in relation to other aircraft operations in the vicinity as well as to other vehicles moving on the airport.
10. Exhibiting procedures for briefing if a landing rollout to a taxiway exit will place the pilot in close proximity to another runway which can result in a runway incursion.
11. Conducting appropriate after landing/taxi procedures in the event the aircraft is on a taxiway that is between parallel runways.
12. Knowing specific procedures for operations at an airport with an operating air traffic control tower, with emphasis onATC communications and runway entry/crossing authorizations.
13. Utilizing ATC communications and pilot actions before takeoff, before landing, and after landing at towered and non-towered airports.
14. Knowing procedures unique to night operations.
15. Knowing operations at non-towered airports.
16. Knowing the use of aircraft exterior lighting.
17. Knowing the hazards of Low visibility operations.

Updated Radio Communications (Area III Task A):

Changed "Transmits using recommended phraseology" to "Transmits using AIM specified phraseology and procedures".

Added to Traffic Patterns:

Properly identifies and interprets airport/seaplane base runways, taxiway signs, markings, and lighting.

Changes to Takeoffs, Landings and Go-Arounds:

Too numerous to list, will have to check later. ;)

Added to Pilotage and Dead Reckoning:

Demonstrates use of magnetic compass in navigation, to include turns to new headings.

Added to Slow Flight and Stalls:

NOTE: In accordance with FAA policy, all stalls for the Private rating will be taken to the full stall condition, prior to initiating the recovery.

Added to Night Operations:

Exhibit satisfactory knowledge of ... Somatogravic illusion and black hole approach illusion.
 
Last edited:
darrell said:
Added to Slow Flight and Stalls:

NOTE: In accordance with FAA policy, all stalls for the Private rating will be taken to the full stall condition, prior to initiating the recovery.
Click to expand...
Now that's gonna really screw up alot of flight schools.....
 
Changes to Normal and Crosswind Takeoff and Climb:

Added "Utilizes procedures before taxiing onto the runway or takeoff area to ensure runway incursion avoidance. Verify ATC clearance/no aircraft on final at non-towered airports before entering the runway, and ensure that the aircraft is on the correct takeoff runway."

Added "Ascertains wind direction with or without visible wind direction indicators."

Added "Calculates/determines if crosswind component is above his or her ability or that of the aircraft’s capability."

REMOVED "Lifts off at the recommended airspeed and accelerates to Vy."

Changed "Complies with noise abatement procedures" to "Complies with responsible environmental practices, including noise abatement procedures".

Changes to Normal and Crosswind Approach and Landing:

Added "Executes a timely go around decision when the approach cannot be made within the tolerances specified above."

Added "Utilizes after landing runway incursion avoidance procedures."

Changed "Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to a normal and crosswind approach and landing" to "Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to a normal and crosswind approach and landing with emphasis on proper use and coordination of flight controls".

...

And my daughter is awake, thus endeth this post... :O
 
darrell said:
Changes to Normal and Crosswind Takeoff and Climb:

Added "Utilizes procedures before taxiing onto the runway or takeoff area to ensure runway incursion avoidance. Verify ATC clearance/no aircraft on final at non-towered airports before entering the runway, and ensure that the aircraft is on the correct takeoff runway."

Added "Ascertains wind direction with or without visible wind direction indicators."

Added "Calculates/determines if crosswind component is above his or her ability or that of the aircraft’s capability."

REMOVED "Lifts off at the recommended airspeed and accelerates to Vy."

Changed "Complies with noise abatement procedures" to "Complies with responsible environmental practices, including noise abatement procedures".

Changes to Normal and Crosswind Approach and Landing:

Added "Executes a timely go around decision when the approach cannot be made within the tolerances specified above."

Added "Utilizes after landing runway incursion avoidance procedures."

Changed "Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to a normal and crosswind approach and landing" to "Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to a normal and crosswind approach and landing with emphasis on proper use and coordination of flight controls".

...

And my daughter is awake, thus endeth this post... :O
Click to expand...

That is interesting what they removed. I've often just let the airplane tell me when it wants to takeoff, which is usually way after rotation speed, smoother for passengers that way too instead of forcing it to leave the earth.
 
Darrell! Thanks for doing that!

... and a full stall... uh-oh. I know that if I'm not intimidated by any maneuver, it'll make me a better pilot... I'll keep telling myself that and get comfortable with them.
 
Tracey said:
Darrell! Thanks for doing that!

... and a full stall... uh-oh. I know that if I'm not intimidated by any maneuver, it'll make me a better pilot... I'll keep telling myself that and get comfortable with them.
Click to expand...


You're doing something close to it every time you land, I would hope....

:wink2:
 
dmccormack said:
You're doing something close to it every time you land, I would hope....

:wink2:
Click to expand...

For me, it wasn't the power off stall that was intimidating, it was the power on. My aircraft (da20), did not want to stall. Took a fair amount of practice to time the throttle and elevator just right to stall without getting the nose WAY up in the air. Not really sure I ever got it right. The DPE was generous.
 
darrell said:
Added to Slow Flight and Stalls:

NOTE: In accordance with FAA policy, all stalls for the Private rating will be taken to the full stall condition, prior to initiating the recovery.
Click to expand...

Our flight school already does it to full stall condition. Our local DE wouldn't pass a student until he/she completely stalled the aircraft and recovered.

I do not remember ever using a mag compass for navigation in private. First time I remember doing compass turns was for Instrument.
 
darthnomster said:
For me, it wasn't the power off stall that was intimidating, it was the power on. My aircraft (da20), did not want to stall. Took a fair amount of practice to time the throttle and elevator just right to stall without getting the nose WAY up in the air. Not really sure I ever got it right. The DPE was generous.
Click to expand...
If you get the airplane "behind the power curve" e.g. below about Vx before adding power you won't end up pointing anywhere near as high.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
That is interesting what they removed. I've often just let the airplane tell me when it wants to takeoff, which is usually way after rotation speed, smoother for passengers that way too instead of forcing it to leave the earth.
Click to expand...
If you're just "waiting" for it to come off that's dependent on a lot of variables like where you have the trim set and how the airplane is loaded. There really is no reason to blast down the runway with the wheel barrow wheels spinning faster and faster if the airplane is capable of flight.
 
Tracey said:
Darrell! Thanks for doing that!

... and a full stall... uh-oh. I know that if I'm not intimidated by any maneuver, it'll make me a better pilot... I'll keep telling myself that and get comfortable with them.
Click to expand...
I think that real "recognition and recovery", in level flight or more usefully, turns, it good enough, but the wing really has to start letting go, and you have to show that you can undo that condition at will. Doing full stalls- at a safe altitude, under benign conditions- adds to that. Feeling the bottom drop out but still recovering, and getting used to that, adds to your bag of tricks.
And you may discover you're one of those weirdos who thinks it's fun ( like me). :D
I was pretty disappointed, during my training, that spins were no longer required... still haven't done enough spins to make me happy.
 
jesse said:
If you're just "waiting" for it to come off that's dependent on a lot of variables like where you have the trim set and how the airplane is loaded. There really is no reason to blast down the runway with the wheel barrow wheels spinning faster and faster if the airplane is capable of flight.
Click to expand...

Well I don't wait THAT long. Geez.
 
We've always done stalls at the private level to the full stall, to my recollection. At the commercial level they were done to the first indication, which we took to mean "at the buffet", rather than at the stall warning horn.
 
Tracey said:
I haven't had a chance to go over it (yet), but I wonder if the new standards are tougher than the current ones.

[URL="http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/airmen/test_standards/pilot/media/FAA-S-8081-14B.pdf"]http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/airmen/test_standards/pilot/media/FAA-S-8081-14B.pdf[/URL]
Click to expand...

Everything was tougher "back then"... We had to walk, uphill, both ways, in the snow, year round just to attend PP ground school... You kids probably don't even know what a #2 pencil is.. :dunno:

You young whippersnappers have it made now. ;):rofl::rofl::rofl:


Ben.
 
The horn won't (predicatably) sound and the tail won't always buffet during the stalls that are most likely to kill you.
Tracey said:
Oh wait, that's true! The warning horn goes off each time!!!
Click to expand...
 
darthnomster said:
For me, it wasn't the power off stall that was intimidating, it was the power on. My aircraft (da20), did not want to stall. Took a fair amount of practice to time the throttle and elevator just right to stall without getting the nose WAY up in the air. Not really sure I ever got it right. The DPE was generous.
Click to expand...
The power-on stall (aka "takeoff/departure stall") should in most planes at lower altitudes be done with partial power (60-70%) rather than fulll throttle, in order to simulate the reduced power available at high density altitudes where most of these accidents occur. In addition, if the pitch attitude will exceed 30 degrees at the stall, power must be reduced in order to comply with 14 CFR 91.307 and the PTS (unless you're wearing parachutes). However, if you do this, you must recover without adding power, since you're simulating having the throttle all the way in already.

Also, if you slow the plane to liftoff speed, and then add the power while pitching up to a climb attitude, you won't accelerate as much before drag overcomes thrust, and the stall will occur at a significantly lower attitude. Finally, the pitch rate must be pretty brisk, again, to decelerate more rapidly so the stall occurs at a lower pitch attitude.
 
N801BH said:
Everything was tougher "back then"... We had to walk, uphill, both ways, in the snow, year round just to attend PP ground school... You kids probably don't even know what a #2 pencil is.. :dunno:

You young whippersnappers have it made now. ;):rofl::rofl::rofl:
Click to expand...
I'm probably older than you and what do you mean 'remember' #2 pencils, you mean they don't use them anymore?
 
They cover more ground, that's for sure, and most of it is based on changing pilots' attitudes: Risk Management, Decision Making, Task Managing, Single-Pilot Resource Management, Automation Management. Controlled Flight into Terrain and Stall/Spin Awareness are hands-on pilot knowledge areas.

Bob Gardner
 
darrell said:
Changes to Normal and Crosswind Takeoff and Climb:

Added "Utilizes procedures before taxiing onto the runway or takeoff area to ensure runway incursion avoidance. Verify ATC clearance/no aircraft on final at non-towered airports before entering the runway, and ensure that the aircraft is on the correct takeoff runway."

Added "Ascertains wind direction with or without visible wind direction indicators."

Added "Calculates/determines if crosswind component is above his or her ability or that of the aircraft’s capability."

REMOVED "Lifts off at the recommended airspeed and accelerates to Vy."

Changed "Complies with noise abatement procedures" to "Complies with responsible environmental practices, including noise abatement procedures".

Changes to Normal and Crosswind Approach and Landing:

Added "Executes a timely go around decision when the approach cannot be made within the tolerances specified above."

Added "Utilizes after landing runway incursion avoidance procedures."

Changed "Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to a normal and crosswind approach and landing" to "Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to a normal and crosswind approach and landing with emphasis on proper use and coordination of flight controls".

...

And my daughter is awake, thus endeth this post... :O
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, Darrell.

Bob Gardner
 
Ron Levy said:
The power-on stall (aka "takeoff/departure stall") should in most planes at lower altitudes be done with partial power (60-70%) rather than fulll throttle, in order to simulate the reduced power available at high density altitudes where most of these accidents occur. In addition, if the pitch attitude will exceed 30 degrees at the stall, power must be reduced in order to comply with 14 CFR 91.307 and the PTS (unless you're wearing parachutes). However, if you do this, you must recover without adding power, since you're simulating having the throttle all the way in already.
Click to expand...

91.307(d) excludes the application of 91.307(c) on flight training given by a CFI or ATP for any maneuver required by regulation for any certificate or rating. No parachute would be needed. Cf. AC 61-67C paragraph 301.
 
Interesting list of changes. My examiner on my last ride (MEI) mentioned a few of the changing items to me.

Thanks for typing that all up, darell.
 
TMetzinger said:
We've always done stalls at the private level to the full stall, to my recollection. At the commercial level they were done to the first indication, which we took to mean "at the buffet", rather than at the stall warning horn.
Click to expand...
Are you talking CFI's in general or you personally?

As for CFI's in general, my experience has been the opposite. I have run across way too many CFI's (generally younger ones) that don't like stalls period. My original CFI and the DPE for my PPL only wanted to see the recovery at the first horn.

Not saying that it was right, but that is the way it was.
 
From the current PTS:
...Recognizes and recovers promptly after the stall occurs..."

I learned, and all the students at the local flight schools learn, that the standard is to stall the airplane and THEN recover.


 
TMetzinger said:
From the current PTS:
...Recognizes and recovers promptly after the stall occurs..."

I learned, and all the students at the local flight schools learn, that the standard is to stall the airplane and THEN recover.
Click to expand...
Again, not disagreeing with you that it is SUPPOSED to be that way....I'm just saying that there are way too many CFI's and DPE's that HAVEN'T been doing it that way.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Again, not disagreeing with you that it is SUPPOSED to be that way....I'm just saying that there are way too many CFI's and DPE's that HAVEN'T been doing it that way.
Click to expand...
I know , and it's a shame. We don't do anyone any service by reinforcing an unknowing fear of stalls. We want our students to be cautious about stalling the airplane, but they need to know what happens in a stall, and how to recover.

An avoidance isn't the same as a recovery.
 
Just for a little more clarity, here's the wording of the old and new PTS for stalls:

OLD

Recognizes and recovers promptly after the stall occurs by simultaneously reducing the angle of attack, increasing power to maximum allowable, and leveling the wings to return to a straight- and-level flight attitude with a minimum loss of altitude appropriate for the airplane.

NEW

Recognizes and recovers promptly after a fully developed stall occurs by simultaneously reducing the angle of attack, increasing power to maximum allowable and leveling the wings to return to a straight-and-level flight attitude with a minimum loss of altitude appropriate for the airplane.
 
jesse said:
If you're just "waiting" for it to come off that's dependent on a lot of variables like where you have the trim set and how the airplane is loaded. There really is no reason to blast down the runway with the wheel barrow wheels spinning faster and faster if the airplane is capable of flight.
Click to expand...

I usually lift the front wheel off as I near rotation speed and let it fly off also. I started doing this flying heavy in the mountains. We have accidents every year caused by people pulling them off in high DA. The only time I'll hold it down is when I have rotors and downdrafts nearby and want extra margin for sheer, but that's not what I'm talking about as SOP.

Are you saying there is something wrong with the letting if fly off technique?
 
Fearless Tower said:
Again, not disagreeing with you that it is SUPPOSED to be that way....I'm just saying that there are way too many CFI's and DPE's that HAVEN'T been doing it that way.
Click to expand...

DPEs, that's a shame, you expect them to fill in what the CFI left undone. With CFIs I'm not surprised. I flew with one PP candidate in her STOL cuffed 182 and asked her to show me slow flight; she slowed to 65. That was what her airline captain CFI was teaching her was slow flight. I showed her that the plane will fly at half that speed. I showed her how to land and stop looking at the VASI out front lol. Somebody got a great performing plane with that one. I did my night currency landings in it over the hills at DVT and using the first turn off with just 18-20 down the runway. The only 182 I flew that would do better had a canard on it.
 
matthammer said:
91.307(d) excludes the application of 91.307(c) on flight training given by a CFI or ATP for any maneuver required by regulation for any certificate or rating. No parachute would be needed. Cf. AC 61-67C paragraph 301.
Click to expand...
...and the PTS says to reduce power for the power-on stall if the attitude at stall will be excessive. So, if the pitch attitude will be excessive with full power, full power is not required by the PTS, and thus not covered by the exception in 91.307(c).
 
Last edited:
Henning said:
DPEs, that's a shame, you expect them to fill in what the CFI left undone.
Click to expand...
DPE's are not there "to fill in what the CFI left undone." In fact, they are prohibited from teaching during a practical test. Granted, this is a prohibition often winked at -- many DPE's use ptractical tests as a bully pulpit for particular issues, some FAA-driven, and some personal. But if there's something required by the PTS which "the CFI left undone," the DPE is required to issue a Notice of Disapproval, and is not permitted just to train to proficiency and then issue the certificate.
 
A few other changes I noticed:
  • The DPE's "plan of action" must now be scenario-based. I think most DPEs will use the scenario of "Let's fly the cross-country flight you planned"...the same as they do now.
  • The instructions on "Applicant's Use of Checklists" now includes the phrases "approved manufacturer's checklist or equivalent" and "FAA handbook or equivalent". I can't wait to see how certain DPEs interpret that one.
  • A significantly expanded section on SRM (single-pilot resource management) that includes ADM, risk management, task management, situational awareness, CFIT, and automation management. It's written to look like an AREA with TASKS, but is actually one of the "special emphasis" areas.
  • A new "judgement assessment matrix" that applies to the SRM items. It doesn't provide any quantifiable standards for judging the applicant's performance, specifying only that the applicant's decisions be "acceptable."
 
Ron Levy said:
...and the PTS says to reduce power for the power-on stall if the attitude at stall will be excessive. So, if the pitch attitude will be excessive with full power, full power is not required by the PTS, and thus not covered by the exception in 91.307(c).
Click to expand...

I disagree. 91.307(d) provides an exception from 91.307(c) for any required maneuver in training with a CFI. The regulations say nothing about whether that maneuver was executed within conformity to the tolerances specified in the practical test standards. Example: If I'm flying with a student, and he uses excessive nose-down force in a stall recovery and the pitch attitude drops below 30 degrees, I'm not in violation of 91.307(c). Likewise, if a student banks beyond 60 degrees in a commercial steep turn, I'm not in violation of 91.307(c).

At least that's my interpretation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top