New Pipers for UND

Makes me want to go back to school again.
 
I can't wait to get there this fall. Going to try to get familiar with the g1000 this summer to make the transition smoother.
 
A couple of years ago they sold lots of low time glass panel warriors because they 'wanted to standardize to 172s'. Piper must have made them a deal they couldn't refuse.
 
What are the hourly rated UND charges it's students? I'm guessing it's gotta be high to pay for all those new planes.
 
Wow, that's a lot of Pipers! I guess it is safe to say that UND would have the largest aircraft fleet of any aviation university in the U.S. My college SUNY Farmingdale has only about 22 aircraft, mostly Pipers and a few Cessnas.
 
N918KT said:
Wow, that's a lot of Pipers! I guess it is safe to say that UND would have the largest aircraft fleet of any aviation university in the U.S. My college SUNY Farmingdale has only about 22 aircraft, mostly Pipers and a few Cessnas.
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Riddle is probably up there, in terms of fleet size, when you consider the school as a whole, between DAB & PRC.
 
Just did a quick look up and a little math here. UND currently has 123 aircraft and adding 112 will bring the potential total fleet size to 235 aircraft!
 
I think they may phase out the current 172s as the new Archers roll in. The oldest 172 is less than 10 years old I think.
 
N918KT said:
Just did a quick look up and a little math here. UND currently has 123 aircraft and adding 112 will bring the potential total fleet size to 235 aircraft!
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These aren't additions, they're replacements.
 
N918KT said:
Just did a quick look up and a little math here. UND currently has 123 aircraft and adding 112 will bring the potential total fleet size to 235 aircraft!
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The way I read it those are replacements at 20/yr until all the 172s are replaced.
 
Wow didn't know anyone lived in North Dakota...

just kidding :cool:
 
Looks like it's under $200/hr for a 172 and instructor. I would have thought it would be higher. Good job UND!
 
Their old planes seem to be spreading around the US for flight schools. Aviator in FL uses their old Pipers. Easy to recognize that paint scheme.
 
135 an hour for C172
53.50 an for instructor which also covers a lot of admin fees

We will begin receiving them in late summer early fall and instructors will get standardized in them and then certain courses will start flying them in the spring.
 
James331 said:
That's a lot of money
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They also make the university a lot of money.

Many of the planes are owned by 'UND Aerospace Foundation' which is an entity separate from the university itself. UND has a couple of outside training contracts that bring in students from china, india and saudi arabia for ab-initio training. It is all a bit more than a 'university with a flight program'.
 
DavidWhite said:
Instructing at UND pays $53/hour?
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That's what the university charges. Some of the instructors work for 'free' as part of the work-study visas that allow them to attend the university.
 
Well someone's paying for it.


Seanaldinho said:
Part time CFIs make 19, working full time, CFII and MEI add to that.
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That's a school I'd never use, they will drop the coin for a new fleet but pay straight insulting wages to the CFIs who actually teach their students how to frickin' fly the plane.


I think their priorities are a wee bit off
 
I was gonna say, dayum for $53/hr I'd go instruct down there on my time off. $19/hr? That's a joke.
 
If they paid $50+/hr I bet the quality of instructors they would get would improve dramatically. I've never understood how generally speaking the least qualified people to teach are instructors.
 
DavidWhite said:
If they paid $50+/hr I bet the quality of instructors they would get would improve dramatically. I've never understood how generally speaking the least qualified people to teach are instructors.
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They don't care if the quality improves, they just need to keep the scheme rolling. You do that by paying people the least you can, while allowing them to fly as much as they can to move on.
 
Seanaldinho said:
Part time CFIs make 19, working full time, CFII and MEI add to that.
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What do they bill the CFIs out at?


Ether way, sounds like one could do much better as a student or as a CFI freelancing in a older airframe
 
James331 said:
What do they bill the CFIs out at?


Ether way, sounds like one could do much better as a student or as a CFI freelancing in a older airframe
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Good luck with that. The Applebee's waitress in GF is usually CFI/CFII/MEI. UND could pay $0/hr and call it a course assignment and the students would do it.

I have met some of the UND freelancers. They are not around long enough to build a customer base.
 
Well if they are willing to work for so little, they probably aren't worth much to start with.
 
James331 said:
Well if they are willing to work for so little, they probably aren't worth much to start with.
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The CFI gig isn't like most jobs. There are only x number of slots available and the number of CFIs willing to do the job is much higher than x, so you really don't have to pay them much, regardless of how good or bad one is.
 
I know some great CFIs and I've met some not so great CFIs, I can't think of one good CFI who would work for that rate.

Just move to where the jobs are.
 
James331 said:
Well if they are willing to work for so little, they probably aren't worth much to start with.
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James, you're aware of the dynamics of pilot time building. This has been the norm
decades. I'm not condoning it, but there's no way one can curb thew behavior as an individual. Everybody is trying to do the same thing, build those "pesky" 1500 and move on to regional, exhibit the same behavior there, and get to mainline before the music stops, again.

As to intl ab initio, I don't lose sleep over the idea the saudis and chinese may be getting shoddy instruction in the US. I find the idea of training the people who are gonna bring cabotage to my Country a bit too much like the corporate folks who get told to train their replacements before getting canned. I can be a Nationalist like that, un-PC as it may be these days. While people think automation is gonna kill all our jobs, I still believe it's the folks across the ponds who are gonna do it for us.
 
It's like blaming guns for murder.


It's not going to be automation or the evil Chinese who are killing our way of like, ITS US, we are screwing ourselves and we have this dumb mindset that since "everyone else is doing it" we might as well too, it's a national mind set.

I did the time building thing too, but I didn't race to get to a regional, I enjoyed the rid and kept a good QOL from the start, it's not impossible, or even that hard.
 
James331 said:
I know some great CFIs and I've met some not so great CFIs, I can't think of one good CFI who would work for that rate.

Just move to where the jobs are.
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They are in GF because that is where they attend college. No point moving to some place where they don't attend college.
 
Here's a thought, once you get all your ratings, leave for where the jobs are, transfer your credits to the cheapest and fastest online school you can find and work a real flying job and do your school in your down time.
 
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