new pilot request help

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Peter Ha, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. Peter Ha

    Peter Ha Pre-Flight

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    Hey folks,
    I had emergency land in M77 (Howard County airport, Arkansas) due to fuel. The airport doesn't have AVgas. Am spending night at motel trying to figure it out.
    I've learned ALOT from my first cross-county with new plane.
    Any pilot in area that can help me out?
    Just need 5 gallon or so I can fly nearest airport with AVgas.
    I'd pay for your service!
     
  2. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I'm nowhere near, but 18 miles away is Hope Municipal. Give them a call tomorrow morning (they have avgas) and see if they'll bring some fuel over.

    Southwest Arkansas Aviation
    870-777-3444

    Otherwise, in the morning call the Howard manager at 870-845-7500, and see if you can borrow a car or get a ride to Hope to get some fuel.
     
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  3. Dana

    Dana Cleared for Takeoff

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    OK, you know you're gonna have to share the story eventually, so why not now? :popcorn:
     
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  4. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    I bet your CFI is happy...
     
  5. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    I'm 2 hours east of there
     
  6. pigpenracing

    pigpenracing Pattern Altitude

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    Put in 10 gallons of autogas to get you to the next airport.
     
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  7. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    It’s a logistics issue. No car, rural airport. How to get any type of fuel?
     
  8. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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  9. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Details wise, sometimes less is more.

    I’d try AAA, they’ll bring gas most times
     
  10. jallen0

    jallen0 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Not tonight. You are already at a strange airport, out of gas for whatever reason, doing a cross-country. The last thing you need to do is get back into that plane tonight. Things will work out, you will get some gas, and you can continue in the light of day. Safely.
     
  11. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Good job landing before it got quiet
     
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  12. n2230b

    n2230b Pre-takeoff checklist

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    How much autogas can you run through a 100ll engine safely? Obviously no lead but what is the result of more than 10 gal? Which octane grade?
     
  13. pigpenracing

    pigpenracing Pattern Altitude

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    People run autogas everyday.... Most planes have the STC to run autogas. He is in a 150, not a P-51 Mustang. The STC's for Lycoming is 87 octane or above I believe.
    To run all the time you really need NON Ethanol but just to get by I would run whatever the pump has until I found better fuel.
     
  14. pigpenracing

    pigpenracing Pattern Altitude

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    Well he said he is at a Motel.... I'm sure if there is a Motel close there is a gas pump somewhere.
     
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  15. Peter Ha

    Peter Ha Pre-Flight

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    I was afraid MOgas might damage the engine?
    All the MOgas around has ethanol added also.
     
  16. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I wouldn’t call 911 in this scenario. Most airports have an ‘after hours’ phone number to someone who can assist with issues like these.
     
  17. Peter Ha

    Peter Ha Pre-Flight

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    I nearly got info fuel starvation today.
    Flying cross-county on a new plane, with crazy headwinds and running near max RPM used more fuel then I calculated.
    By time I realized the fuel situation (quarter-tank, and less then quarter on other!) I was middle of nowhere. I thought of going "little-bit further" to hit the airport WITH fuel but I decided against and turned to nearest airport(without fuel).
    I found this airport and declared emergency to Memphis Center and turned staight for M77. Center was very helpful, asked a Bonanza to follow me making sure I landed on first-pass. When I landed only 3 gallons remained! :eek:
    I learned alot about my new plane and will be extra conservative on fuel usage. Had my life flash before my eyes as realization I may have to crash... I was very scared. People can tell me all the mistakes I made ... I'm just glad came out alive.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
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  18. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    yea, this is an airport with no fuel and no fbo. Looks like there could be a house or something at the end of the runway...hard to tell
     
  19. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

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    3 gallons in a 150 pull the power fly for an hour. I kid I kid kinda.
     
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  20. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That would be fuel exhaustion, not starvation.

    :confused:
     
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  21. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I’d dial this guy up.
    6DEC8789-576E-4620-8E67-F539CEABD96D.jpeg
     
  22. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

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    Actually sounds like a normal VFR flight to your destination (well kind of) and a 1/2 hour fuel remaining.
     
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  23. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    I think you made mistakes and then handled them. You’ll never forget the day and you’ll be a better pilot for it.

    Far better than being the pilot who pushed on and the engine got quiet before the next runway was assured. Or the pilot who just missed that the fuel gauges were headed for empty altogether.

    You declared, got help, landed safely, and get to think about what led up to it. It’ll change how you manage fuel forever.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
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  24. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Fair point and I was actually thinking as I read that... I used 6 gals per hour as a fuel burn in the 152. The book number was ~5.2gal/hr IIRC.
     
  25. Subsea

    Subsea Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You did exactly what needed to be done in that situation. Good job! Now you need to figure out how to stay out of that situation.
     
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  26. kath

    kath Cleared for Takeoff

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    If you've found a hotel, then use it to relax. Don't worry about the next steps until tomorrow.
    Phone calls and logistics (like @murphey and @Ryanb suggest)... all tomorrow.
    Tonight, everything is fine.

    Nice job choosing to land, and landing. Running out of fuel is nothing to be trifled with. Glad you're OK!
     
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  27. Peter Ha

    Peter Ha Pre-Flight

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    EXACTLY, what I felt tonight. I won't EVER forget this experience.
     
  28. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Well heck, you're only 3 miles north of Nashville....... Arkansas! LOL

    I bet someone at the airport will sell you some fuel. Call the airport manager.

    I also agree with others that 5 gallons of reg unleaded will get you to KDEQ without any damage to you or the engine.
     
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  29. rtk11

    rtk11 Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Looking on Google Maps, it looks like Diamond Country Lodging (870-845-4011) is nearby. If you haven't gotten lodging yet, maybe give them a call to see if they can pick you up and help you get 5 gallons of MOGAS and stay at their hotel overnight. Maybe they can give you a lift back to the airport in the AM?
     
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  30. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    What is your final destination?
     
  31. Sinistar

    Sinistar En-Route

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    Sure sounds like you did the right thing. I bet your mind is racing to solve the problem "right now". But you're in a motel safe and sound and hopefully you can get some rest tonight. As I understand it you are pushing on to California so a ways to go yet and probably more headwinds..but hopefully you get a break from that.

    I was wondering if you were leaning as aggressively as you could. I know when we first got our plane it took about 5 flights to figure just how much it could be leaned both up in the air and during idle/taxi.

    If you can get avgas and they can bring more than 5 gallons get more...why not! Be even more vigilant when it comes to mogas and water, should be fine but the source wont be quite as scrutinized.

    A friend of mine building time flys almost exclusively at night and to lots of rural airports. He always carries 5gal of avgas in a can. Not sure what can/container though that will not have fumes. He figures it will get him out of a pinch including if his cc doesn't work or the pump cc reader doesn't work.

    Congrats on the new plane. Get some sleep.
     
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  32. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Good choice to land (obviously).

    When the time comes to critique yourself, consider whether you had access to preflight knowledge such as winds at altitude, or whether those winds were different than predicted (forecasts are just forecasts, not actual).

    Also, did you start getting concerned because of the gauges reading low, or because of the clock vs fuel burn? If clock, and it sounds like your plane is new to you, you ought to keep a fuel log until you can accurately predict fuel usage, plus a buffer, then your reserve.

    Again, good job.
     
  33. chemgeek

    chemgeek Cleared for Takeoff

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    First, good decision making not to press in a fuel urgency situation.

    Second, what lesson did you learn from this adventure? Proper leaning technique for efficient fuel utilization? Fuel consumption planning by the POH? Accounting for winds aloft in flight planning?

    Unexpected fuel exhaustion urgency requires some planning or operational errors. This is an educational moment.
     
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  34. Dana

    Dana Cleared for Takeoff

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    First, good job on recognizing and admitting you have a problem, dealing with it, and getting on the ground safely.

    Do not put mogas in the plane if there is any possibility it might contain ethanol. Yes, it probably won't hurt anything one time, but do you really want to take that chance? It could be an expensive repair if it does. And it's illegal. You said you declared an emergency (probably didn't need to, you can just tell ATC you're low on fuel, it's urgent but not yet an emergency), so the FAA will probably be contacting you to ask about it so you want to be squeaky clean. Looks like Hope airport is less than 20 miles away, try to borrow a car or get an uber or something to get a can and some gas.

    But why were you running "near max RPM"? That uses a lot more fuel, but doesn't give you all that much more airspeed. Flying in headwinds, you should keep to your cruise power setting with its known fuel burn, figure your groundspeed, and re-figure your ETA accordingly. Select and head to an alternate destination before the fuel is so low it's critical.
     
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  35. Pugs

    Pugs Pre-takeoff checklist

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    True but still not comfortable. I landed on my first really long X/C in a 172 with 8 gallons. Perfectly legal, other airports available and was still not happy with it. I now two-leg that flight in anything but the 182 with 88 gallon tanks .

    The OP did the right thing once he realized the issue.
     
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  36. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Cleared for Takeoff

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    You aced the conclusion and now can arm chair quarter back yourself to be better next time. The conclusion is what really counts. Congrats on not being another fuel exhaustion story!
     
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  37. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    So....Did Peter get some mogas gas.??

    Or did he get 100LL.??

    Is he still hitch hiking somewhere in Arkansas.??

    Can he hear banjo music in the back ground.??

    Did he sleep comfortably last night.??

    Are the headwinds still high.??

    Did he have bacon with his breakfast.??

    Will he ever have bacon again.??

    These questions—and many others—will be answered in the next episode of...PoA...
     
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  38. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    I hope the silence is because the OP found some folks to assist him and he continued on his journey. I can only give someone so much grief for running low on fuel in their first flight in a new to them airplane. I doubt anyone really knows what an airplane is going do before they fly it awhile. I think it laudatory that the OP turned around to his nearest to put the thing down, instead of persevering onward. Lots of guys have died doing otherwise.
     
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  39. Brad W

    Brad W Pre-takeoff checklist

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    how did you know only 3 gallons remained?...could it really have been 5?

    Regardless, agreed with others...better to make that decision and land!
     
  40. Scott@KTYR

    Scott@KTYR Pattern Altitude

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    Adventures of the POA Pilot:)
     
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