New Pilot looking to buy first headset (help/suggestions?)

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ahall47

Filing Flight Plan
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Andrew
Hey everyone. Long-time reader, first time poster.

As the title says I am about to get my pilot's license, 33.1/40 hrs, and am looking at getting my first headset. I am currently in grad school so I'm not looking to spend a lot but anywhere from $200-350. I think I have narrowed my search down to the Telex Echelon 25XT (largely b/c it has an AUX input) or a David Clark in that price range (which none unfortunately have an AUX input).

Does anyone have experience with either of these two products or a strong opinion on either/both? If there is something that I am leaving off that you think I should look at too I am all ears/eyes.

Thanks again for your help in advance!
 
I have a BOSE, Lightspeed, DC, and Sigtronics. There's also a 3rd party add on for cellphone or aux input. I've never used the aux input other than to see that it worked. Too many extra wires. Even with bluetooth, it wasn't all that straight forward.
As to a headset recommendation. Make the first an ANR if you can afford it. You'll love the silence.
PS: the Sigs were the first and are non anr. I bought them when I just started out. ANR is definitely the way to go. DCs were new, BOSE and Lightspeed second hand and 1/3 to 1/2 the original list.
 
First, ANR is essential to your ability to hear when you get to be my age. Second, all headset brands fit differently, and all heads are shaped differently, so try (and preferably fly) before you buy.
 
I made the mistake of thinking I couldn't/shouldn't afford the more expensive headset in the beginning too. Then about a year later I realized my mistake and bought a nice ANR set. Your hearing is too important to skimp on. My hearing aids now cost me about $6,000 and I have to replace them about every three years.

But as for advice as to which ones to choose, go to a store where you can try on several. Some people love the Clarks. They crushed my fat head. Really pay attention to how much pressure they exert because after several hours that pressure will magnify. That is one of the reason a good set of ANRs is worth it. They don't have to exert as much pressure.

My suggestion: Borrow if you have to but get a good set of ANRs. And don't take anyone else's advice about how comfortable they are unless you have an identical twin. Even then I would still suggest trying them yourself.
 
It is not entirely clear at this point whether ANR has a protective effect against hearing loss. The physics suggest it should but the data to show that is difficult to obtain. For that reason, I prefer a headset that has good passive attenuation to start with.

For comfort and weight, a lot depends on the kind of flying you are doing. 1-2hrs, the headset doesn't bother me, any longer the pressure is a bit annoying.

Regarding price, look how they are supported down the line. David Clark is pretty good about fixing and refurbishing down the line for postage paid, others like Telex charge $250 flat fees to even look at the thing out of warranty.

I once thought I needed the aux input. I don't.
 
Ron Levy said:
First, ANR is essential to your ability to hear when you get to be my age. Second, all headset brands fit differently, and all heads are shaped differently, so try (and preferably fly) before you buy.
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That!

Every head is shaped differently. I have many pilot friends who swear by David Clarks (and they are, by all accounts) good headsets. I can't wear them for more than 30 minutes at a time without feeling like my head is in a vise. Absolutely find a way to try (for more than a few minutes on the ground) headsets. What's important is that they fit _you_ comfortably.

John
 
David Clark is not so quick to discontinue products, but when they do, they continue to support what they have sold. Most other suppliers simply tell you that your old set has been discontinued, so buy a new set.

My David Clarks broke down about a year ago. I took them to Marv Golden Pilot Supplies next to KMYF. They sent them to David Clark for repair. I had them back in a week. My cost? Zero, nada, nothing. That is the only problem I have had with my David Clark headset.

I doubt if there is one other headset supplier that will back their products like David Clark backs theirs. By the way, I never had a receipt or any other paper work that proved I owned them, or when I bought them. David Clark cares about their products, not their red tape.

When I bought my airplane years ago, there was a what looked liked a good headset in the plane, but it didn't work. I called the manufacturer, and they said it was a discontinued model, so they can not be repaired. I can't recall the brand, but it was a common one, might even have been one of those you are considering.

John
 
ahall47 said:
Hey everyone. Long-time reader, first time poster.

As the title says I am about to get my pilot's license, 33.1/40 hrs, and am looking at getting my first headset. I am currently in grad school so I'm not looking to spend a lot but anywhere from $200-350. I think I have narrowed my search down to the Telex Echelon 25XT (largely b/c it has an AUX input) or a David Clark in that price range (which none unfortunately have an AUX input).

Does anyone have experience with either of these two products or a strong opinion on either/both? If there is something that I am leaving off that you think I should look at too I am all ears/eyes.

Thanks again for your help in advance!
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Welcome to POA... Great bunch of guys and gals here to chat with.:yesnod::yesnod:
 
Fwiw,I always thought of DCs as head vises, but after converting mine to ANR ( www.headsetsinc.com ), and adding new gel-sel ear seals, I find them much more comfortable. Ymmv.

Also, I have sent two sets of Telex headsets to Telex for inspection and repair, both were promptly fixed at no cost, and made new for all purposes. Cheapest headsets they sold, and not in warranty.

Finally, you might try QT Halo headset, in-ear. Very comfortable, no ANR, but it's as if it were. My wife uses them, loves them.
 
For $200 I picked up a very lightly used, just-like-new set of DC H10-13S. Even new they're not terribly expensive. They're comfortable, they're not too heavy, and I have no trouble hearing with them -- and my tired, abused old ears are not in the best shape any more.

In the $350 and under range, it's David Clark all the way IMHO. You can always upgrade to ANR later if you really feel the need, but it's going to cost you WAY more than your budget for Zulus or Bose... even used.

For the extra input, you can always add a cable to patch in whatever you want to.
 
There are a lot of DC lovers on this board. Most of the pilots I am around seem to go with either Lightspeed or Bose. I started with Lightspeed XLc and then ended up buying a Zulu later and keeping the XLc as a passenger headset (though there is a trade-up program). I will agree with the other posters that it is one item that is worth stepping up and spending some money on.
 
DCs are the most uncomfortable headsets I've ever used, I can't wear them for more than 45 minutes before my ears and the top of my head are burning.
 
Henning said:
DCs are the most uncomfortable headsets I've ever used, I can't wear them for more than 45 minutes before my ears and the top of my head are burning.
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See, this is why I wish there were some place I could go and try out different headsets.

I have a really nice pair of Koss stereo 'phones my kids gave me for Christmas one year. They sound amazing... and after about 30 minutes they make the top of my head feel like someone dropped an iron pipe on it. I was worried about the DC cans after reading some comments on here... and I have a huge melon of a head, too. But the flight school has a pair of H10-20 loaners, and after an hour and a half with them on I couldn't even tell they were there. My H10-134 set is just as comfortable.

I think it's a boxers-briefs kind of thing, depends on what you find comfortable.
 
DaleB said:
See, this is why I wish there were some place I could go and try out different headsets.

I have a really nice pair of Koss stereo 'phones my kids gave me for Christmas one year. They sound amazing... and after about 30 minutes they make the top of my head feel like someone dropped an iron pipe on it. I was worried about the DC cans after reading some comments on here... and I have a huge melon of a head, too. But the flight school has a pair of H10-20 loaners, and after an hour and a half with them on I couldn't even tell they were there. My H10-134 set is just as comfortable.

I think it's a boxers-briefs kind of thing, depends on what you find comfortable.
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Luckily in my area we have Banyan, an excellent FBO with a great pilot shop. They have a G II front end mock up with a couple sims and a reading area in the store and you can put on whatever headset and go play with the sim or read a book for an hour.

This is one of the downfalls of internet retail outlets putting brick and mortar shops out of business. Used to find pilot shops like this at any major market airport, now they are mostly thinning inventories or closing/closed.
 
Great stuff everyone. I really appreciate the input and you all have provided me w/ so Grade-A info.

I'll continue to be around and pitch in where I can but my flight knowledge is greatly inferior to most of everyone's here. I guess we all have to start somewhere.
 
Clarity Aloft you will not be able to trial as they are an earbud unit, they are however the most comfortable I have had. Lightspeed has the Mach 1 with custom fitted ear molds. My Clarity Aloft have equal level of adequacy in quiet as my Zulus or Sierras and are lighter and more comfortable.
 
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QT Halo (or Clarity Aloft if the aux input is essential). Way more comfortable and less tiring than any external headset, including those with ANR. $325 through next week.

And there's no reason in principle why you couldn't try on one of the in-ear headsets, although I bought mine sight-unseen. They use cheap, replaceable foam tips that cost $1.50 a set and last for ~10 flights. So a store or a friend might well let you borrow one to try it. If you buy from the manufacturer there's a no quibble 45-day returns policy if you don't like it. Super friendly and helpful company.
 
Buy the best once, and keep them for a life time ..... Bose A20.
 
Tom-D said:
Buy the best once, and keep them for a life time ..... Bose A20.
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That I agree with, however as for which that is, I'd still try em on first. The Bose doesn't fit my ears comfortably where as the Lightspeed does. As for quietness, same same to me.
 
I have David Clark H10-13.4, David Clark H10-30, and Lightspeed 30-3G ANR. I like the Lightspeeds the best, but they aren't very well made compared to David Clark.

I have been kicking around the idea of upgrading to the Zulu.2. Any expert opinions on how much better the Zulus (1 or 2) are compared to the old 30-3G?
 
MSPAviator said:
I have David Clark H10-13.4, David Clark H10-30, and Lightspeed 30-3G ANR. I like the Lightspeeds the best, but they aren't very well made compared to David Clark.

I have been kicking around the idea of upgrading to the Zulu.2. Any expert opinions on how much better the Zulus (1 or 2) are compared to the old 30-3G?
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I went from a 30-3G to a Zulu 2, and it's a night and day difference. Sometimes I forget I have a headset on because the zulus are so light, the ANR is great, and they look good.
 
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DavidWhite said:
I went from a 30-3G to a Zulu 2, and it's a night and day difference. Sometimes I forget I have a headset on because the zulus are so light, the ANR is great, and they look good.
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:yeahthat:
If the question was whether to upgrade from Zulu to Zulu 2, my answer would be no. But the Thirty-3G to Zulu 2 is a no brainer.
 
DavidWhite said:
I went from a 30-3G to a Zulu 2, and it's a night and day difference. Sometimes I forget I have a headset on because the zulus are so light, the ANR is great, and they look good.
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:yeahthat:
If the question was whether to upgrade from Zulu to Zulu 2, my answer would be no. But the Thirty-3G to Zulu 2 is a no brainer.

And I would strongly recommend any pilot to make his or her FIRST purchased headset either ANR or earbud. It's worth the investment. Even it it doesn't save your hearing long term (and I feel pretty confident that it will), it makes understanding the instructor, ATC, and passengers SO MUCH easier. Now, for a spare headset that gets used occasionally, a non-ANR is probably acceptable, because there isn't going to be much critical communication going on there. If you have an SO or kid who is going to be frequently flying with you, then they deserve an ANR too.
 
gprellwitz said:
Now, for a spare headset that gets used occasionally, a non-ANR is probably acceptable, because there isn't going to be much critical communication going on there. If you have an SO or kid who is going to be frequently flying with you, then they deserve an ANR too.
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For a spare, any old soft-comm will do. I would argue however that if you plan to take anyone as a guest, possibly with the intent to interest them in aviation, either give them your superfragilicious ANR headset, or try to have a really good one at hand for that purpose.
 
weilke said:
For a spare, any old soft-comm will do. I would argue however that if you plan to take anyone as a guest, possibly with the intent to interest them in aviation, either give them your superfragilicious ANR headset, or try to have a really good one at hand for that purpose.
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I can certainly understand that viewpoint. In my opinion, I'd rather maximize the chance of understanding ATC over making the passenger happy. If you have enough $$$ to provide at least one ANR headset dedicated for non-pilot use, great!
 
2 stupid questions: With noise cancelling headsets, you can still hear the stall horn, right? And second, I have an old pair of David Clarks-- they're probably not ANR, are they?
 
Tracey said:
2 stupid questions: With noise cancelling headsets, you can still hear the stall horn, right? And second, I have an old pair of David Clarks-- they're probably not ANR, are they?
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Yes, you will still hear the stall horn fine with ANR or earbuds just fine. As for your current set, does it have a box in the cord? If not it's not ANR.
 
gprellwitz said:
:yeahthat:
If the question was whether to upgrade from Zulu to Zulu 2, my answer would be no. But the Thirty-3G to Zulu 2 is a no brainer.

And I would strongly recommend any pilot to make his or her FIRST purchased headset either ANR or earbud. It's worth the investment. Even it it doesn't save your hearing long term (and I feel pretty confident that it will), it makes understanding the instructor, ATC, and passengers SO MUCH easier. Now, for a spare headset that gets used occasionally, a non-ANR is probably acceptable, because there isn't going to be much critical communication going on there. If you have an SO or kid who is going to be frequently flying with you, then they deserve an ANR too.
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How does ANR save hearing? Don't get me wrong, I have the Zulus 1 and 2 and love them, but was under the impression that ANR ADDED sound to cancel out background noise. Wouldn't the passive noise reduction be what protects hearing?
 
AirDC said:
How does ANR save hearing? Don't get me wrong, I have the Zulus 1 and 2 and love them, but was under the impression that ANR ADDED sound to cancel out background noise. Wouldn't the passive noise reduction be what protects hearing?
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The idea is that because the "added sound" is in inverse phase with respect to the ambient noise (i.e. + when the noise is -, and vice versa) it physically counteracts the noise sound waves by destructive interference. This should protect your hearing in exactly the same way that it makes the noise quieter and less annoying.

Put another way, the noise cancelling happens in the air inside your ears, before it can cause any damage, rather than (as you might have been thinking) it happening in your auditory nerves or brain.

That said, I don't think there have been any clinical trials to prove that hearing loss is reduced.

QT Halo's better anyway
 
DavidWhite said:
I went from a 30-3G to a Zulu 2, and it's a night and day difference. Sometimes I forget I have a headset on because the zulus are so light, the ANR is great, and they look good.
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Ok, I think you've sold me... now to cough up the $$$...

When I went from DC H10-13.4 + Hearos Extreme 32NRR earplugs to just 30-3Gs, it was an improvement, but not a hugely dramatic one.

I expect the Zulu.2 to be a huge improvement in build quality as well.... the 30-3Gs are just cheap feeling compared to the DC's.
 
Tracey said:
2 stupid questions: With noise cancelling headsets, you can still hear the stall horn, right?
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ANR has the largest effect at lower constant frequencies, such as the pulses of air from the prop beating against the windshield, engine exhaust tone etc. While it does attenuate annunciators, they are still clearly audible.

And second, I have an old pair of David Clarks-- they're probably not ANR, are they?
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Probably not. There are however kits that can be used to convert older DC headsets to some form of ANR, don't recall who makes those kits.
 
I recently bought Lightspeed Sierras. I'm not convinced I like them yet. My DCs come, along for the ride in the bag still.

Motorboating of the ANR when turning my head due to the eyeglasses bows letting in sound (I assume) is my main complaint. I also don't like the loss of all bass range audio from the radio/audio source when the ANR is active.

The Sierras were also broken right out of the box, new. LS immediately offered to repair and I paid shipping one-way, they overnighted the headset back after a week plus two days at their shop.

Might do as Spike mentioned and convert the DCs to ANR and compare.

I don't feel confident about the construction quality of the Sierras. I've beat the living crap out of two sets of DCs since 1992 and they keep coming back for more serious abuse.

And there's a nagging voice telling me the LS stuff reminds me a little too much of the bumper crop of cheap audio headphones out of China

"Oh, you have a pair of Beats by Dr. Dre'? You MUST be an audiophile!" :D

These comments also coming from someone who won't listen to his audio gadgets without the 20 year old Sony Professional series studio monitor headphones in my backpack, or the Audio-Technica full-size headset hanging from the headboard of my bed. ;) ;) ;)

Oh, and coiling up and putting the Sierra's cords with the ANR blob properly in their over-wide bag is a pain. And they don't fit in the space designed for DC type headsets in the Brightline bag very well. Certainly not room for two sets as there easily is for DC style.
 
AirDC said:
How does ANR save hearing? Don't get me wrong, I have the Zulus 1 and 2 and love them, but was under the impression that ANR ADDED sound to cancel out background noise. Wouldn't the passive noise reduction be what protects hearing?
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No, think about it, the amplitudes are cancelling. "Noise" is nothing more than the motion of your eardrum processed by the rest of the line. If you have 2 waves cancel each other out before they get to the eardrum to move it.
 
Flew with the LS again today. They motorboated once.

Jury's still out.

Some folks would have dumped them by now. :dunno:

Today might push me over the "go home and order the DIY ANR kit for the DCs". Have soldering iron, will travel.

BTW I did look at the DC ANR line. They changed the design and I don't like them from the factory.

I probably should have bought an H10-13XL. May still do that.
 
denverpilot said:
Flew with the LS again today. They motorboated once.
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I has a set of LS 3-30s(? The big old honkin ones) that did that, Found out the problem was the cup seal was allowing prop pulses to get in and set up that loop. I found I could move my jaw and make change and stop. I traded them on a Clarity Aloft set. I have a pair of Zulus and Sierras, neither of them does it.
 
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