New Pilot - Avionics Upgrade Question - Cessna 152

[jrgrtx]

New member and new pilot here. I recently bit the bullet and purchased a 1978 Cessna 152. Less than 3000 TTAF and less than 800 SMOH. No ADSB and old original Collins Comm/Nav radios. I want to upgrade and put in ADSB, but I also am no wealthy guy so I want to to it smartly. Any suggestions on smart, cost effective upgrades to what is basically a bare panel at the moment with no ADSB? I appreciate all suggestions right up front.

 

[bid shader]

I think the cheapest solution for ADS-b + a Navigator good for rnav approaches would be a Uavionix TailBeacon ($2k + minimal install cost) and a Garmin GPS 175 ($4300 + not insignificant install cost). For about $1000 more you could go with the GNX 375 instead, which would get you both ADS-b and the navigator in one unit.

Garmin also has a GNC 355 which is a GPS + COMM radio. You could do the TailBeacon ($2k) and the GNC 355 ($6300 + install) to get ADS-b, a new comm radio, and a GPS navigator.

For every price point, there is a product, and also another product that is just a bit more money with one more feature. You can spend a fortune here.

Edit: One thing to consider is that I believe the GNX 375 is ADS-b In and Out, but the TailBeacon is just ADS-b Out.

 

[jrgrtx]

I think the cheapest solution for ADS-b + a Navigator good for rnav approaches would be a Uavionix TailBeacon ($2k + minimal install cost) and a Garmin GPS 175 ($4300 + not insignificant install cost). For about $1000 more you could go with the GNX 375 instead, which would get you both ADS-b and the navigator in one unit.

Garmin also has a GNC 355 which is a GPS + COMM radio. You could do the TailBeacon ($2k) and the GNC 355 ($6300 + install) to get ADS-b, a new comm radio, and a GPS navigator.

For every price point, there is a product, and also another product that is just a bit more money with one more feature. You can spend a fortune here.

I appreciate that info. I've seen the tailbeacon and the wing tip beacon both. It's the inside solutions that sort of have me stumped. The old original Collins VHF 251 Comm radio in it actually sounds really good, transmit and receive. Seems like it's hard to get out of any ADSB and basic radio upgrade for less than 10k. Thats rough.

 

[Wagondriver]

If you do not need ADSB, I wouldn’t spend the money.
I have it because every year I need to fly within the 30 mile mode c veil, and when flying distance I fly over 10,000. But, for 90% of my flying it isn’t needed.

If you have an operating radio, why take it out?

 

[Jesse Saint]

I would recommend the Stratus ESG and maybe add the 3i for ads-b in on an iPad.

 

[jrgrtx]

I would recommend the Stratus ESG and maybe add the 3i for ads-b in on an iPad.

Thank you Jesse. I'll look into that. I've had several friends who fly recommend the iPad solution. As Wagondriver said above, I can't see taking out a perfectly fine working radio. Yea it's not pretty and "modern" but for the low dollar guys like me, it works. I just want to make sure I have the min I need to 1) be safe and 2) be compliant. Unfortunately where I fly I will be going in and out of that 30 mile B veil so ADSB is a must.

 

[bid shader]

I appreciate that info. I've seen the tailbeacon and the wing tip beacon both. It's the inside solutions that sort of have me stumped. The old original Collins VHF 251 Comm radio in it actually sounds really good, transmit and receive. Seems like it's hard to get out of any ADSB and basic radio upgrade for less than 10k. Thats rough.

The TailBeacon will work with your existing transponder, so it's really just about $2k for ADS-b out compliance. There are lots of options for ADS-b in that aren't too pricy - Stratux for example will work with ForeFlight and costs about $200.

If you need a comm radio replacement, the cheapest option would be just a straight comm radio like the Garmin GTR 225 for like $2k, but as you said, if yours works fine, then why change it?

 

[somorris]

I agree that if your current radio (if it is 760 channels) is working fine, why throw it away. We added ADS-B in 2017. We were close to going with the Stratus ESG, but wound up installing a Garmin GTX335. The primary reason for going with a new combo transponder/ADS-B Out was that our existing transponder, although working fine, was pretty old and we didn't want to spend $2k on a Tailbeacon or similar, then have our transponder go out and have to also install a new transponder. I know quite a few folks that went with the Appareo Stratus ESG and are happy with it. We have already had to send the Garmin unit back to Garmin for repair, and I understand quite a few folks have had similar experience with either the GTX335 like we have or the GTX345 which has In/Out. If we had only known.... That being said, our installed cost was right at $5k.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

I have a used Garmin 330es that I am about to sell. It has out but no in.

 

[Morgan3820]

Congratulations on the new plane. It sounds like a good one I hope you enjoy it. The Collins are currently working but I think it would be hard to find a repair for them. So I would start saving. A KX 125 is a nice digital flip-flop nav/com that many people overlook. it has a built-in OBS and an LCD display you can find them on eBay for around $1200 for a good one. Add a KN 53 and now you have glideslope capability. When doing panel work it is generally cheaper to do everything all at once.

 

[MuseChaser]

I faced a similar situation a year or two ago; own a relatively inexpensive trainer plane ( Cherokee 140) with older transponder, one Narco 12D+ nav/com, and old but working CDI. IFR capable legally, but the lack of panel gps is a growing issue as VORs are decommissioned and GPS nav and approaches increasingly become the norm.

Limited budget. Considered the uAvionix wing or tail solutions, but didn't want to install that, then have to replace my existing AT-150 transponder failed. For not a lot more money, I went with the Stratus ESG and self-installed with an A&P's oversight/assistance. Basically, adsb compliance with a free new transponder. Considered going for the Garmin GNX 375 instead to get gps in one fell swoop, but the cost scared me off so I decided to put off the gps. Still wrestling with that...and the desire to have the plane down for another installation.

Why am I writing? Well....I made the wrong decision. The Stratus ESG works great,and I'm very happy with it. For another couple thousand, I could have had gps already installed and would be done with it instead of the dreaded process of opening up the panel again. Of course, my cdi isn't compatible,so that opens another expense,but still...

If you're going to do it...DO IT while you're in there. I should have. If IFR isn't in your plans, then the Stratus is a GREAT choice.

 

[chemgeek]

For what will you be using this plane?

If flying VFR only, and have a reasonably workable NAV/COM and transponder (my old Narco AT-50A was a tank) then a UAvionix tailbeacon for ADS-B out and a good EFB tablet with GPS is probably the way to go. If you need ADS-B in, there are portable options. A panel-mount ADS-B in/out (Stratus ESG or NGT-9000) will cost much more, if less cluttered. An NGT-9000 can be had for about $7000 installed, with all the bells and whistles (wifi module, ATAS), if you look around.

If doing IFR training or flying, I would think the GNX-375 is a no-brainer to get WAAS GPS and ADS-B in one compact box. Keep the NAV/COMs if working and legal. They can always be upgraded later. If installing WAAS GPS, you will likely need a separate CDI to be IFR compliant. That means a GI-106B unless you put in G5s.

 

[jrgrtx]

Congratulations on the new plane. It sounds like a good one I hope you enjoy it. The Collins are currently working but I think it would be hard to find a repair for them. So I would start saving. A KX 125 is a nice digital flip-flop nav/com that many people overlook. it has a built-in OBS and an LCD display you can find them on eBay for around $1200 for a good one. Add a KN 53 and now you have glideslope capability. When doing panel work it is generally cheaper to do everything all at once.

Thats great input. I'll definitely look into these. VERY much appreciated!!!

 

[Dana]

As others have said, if you don't need IFR, keep the existing radio, add a tailbeacon, Foreflight if you're an iStuff person, Avare (free) if you're a cheap Android person like me, you'll never use the VOR once you start using an EFB.

When the gears on my ancient Narco com stripped, I pulled it and the VOR head and put in a used ($300 on Barnstormers) Becker instrument hole com. Flip/flop would be nice but only on less than 5% of my flights so it's not that big a deal.

 

[jrgrtx]

As others have said, if you don't need IFR, keep the existing radio, add a tailbeacon, Foreflight if you're an iStuff person, Avare (free) if you're a cheap Android person like me, you'll never use the VOR once you start using an EFB.

When the gears on my ancient Narco com stripped, I pulled it and the VOR head and put in a used ($300 on Barnstormers) Becker instrument hole com. Flip/flop would be nice but only on less than 5% of my flights so it's not that big a deal.

Thank you sir. Well, I would like to go on and get my IFR rating. I know with a 152 that may be a stretch but why not try? I just don't want to go upside down in the value in spending more on avionics than I'll ever get out of the airplane.

 

[WDD]

Thank you sir. Well, I would like to go on and get my IFR rating. I know with a 152 that may be a stretch but why not try? I just don't want to go upside down in the value in spending more on avionics than I'll ever get out of the airplane.

If IFR training, then sounds like getting the GNX 375 is what you want. ADSB as well as IFR GPS. Even flying VFR I always use the system to show traffic and weather on the I Pad. The GNX 375 will also show traffic on your Garmin Pilot app, as well as load flight plans, etc.

As hot as plane prices are, and as desirable as a GPS system is, that it would make it IFR capable, and that you need ADSB anyway, I can't see that a GNX 375 would put you upside down.

Not sure why IFR training in a 152 would be a stretch?

 

[kshaw]

I owned a Cessna 152 before and one large factor is keeping the weight low. I suggest replacing your existing transponder KT-74 and use one of the Freeflight GPS setups approved by the STC.

 

[jrgrtx]

I owned a Cessna 152 before and one large factor is keeping the weight low. I suggest replacing your existing transponder KT-74 and use one of the Freeflight GPS setups approved by the STC.

Freeflight GPS setups?

 

[Llk]

I’ve spent tens of thousands on IFR panels, pre and post ADSB. By lobbying the previous administration to force ADSB, Garmin has made billions and the market hasn’t complained much - plenty of G5’s, G500/600’s, and GTN’s being sold in a virtual monopoly.

Don’t touch your perfectly working radio.

Tailbeacon takes fifteen minutes to install and is 1900 new and 1500ish used. Aaaand it isn’t made by Garmin.

If you have an iPad, I’ve bought a ForeFlight scout for a little over 100.. ADSB in in as big a screen as you want to buy in an iPad.

There are some great deals for ADSB in in some robust aviation specific portables. The 696/796, 500 series and 795/796 come to mind. Heck, I have a couple to sell. For a few hundred, you get approach plates, georeferenced, and ADSB in...with equipment that doesn’t get overheated and takes a beating. Plus, your plates are legal.

IFR training? I’ve seen Narco 122’s integrated nav receivers for a little over $1k. Many King gps radios are still supported. Sadly Garmin has killed support for the Apollo line after they bought the better competition. Too bad avidyne doesn’t make a competing smaller GA product.

Garmin 430’s, the non waas kind, have been seen for around 3.

Giving premium money to garmin or others for the benefit of panel install when ADSB in isn’t a required instrument is robbery. Great for those that can afford it and enjoy it, it simplifies workload, but in a 152 Youre not getting anywhere fast.

 

[kshaw]

Freeflight GPS setups?

Freeflight Systems 1201 GPS/WAAS Sensor & Antenna is approved by the STC. This is a solution if you do not have a panel mount GPS.

 

[Tom-D]

New member and new pilot here. I recently bit the bullet and purchased a 1978 Cessna 152. Less than 3000 TTAF and less than 800 SMOH. No ADSB and old original Collins Comm/Nav radios. I want to upgrade and put in ADSB, but I also am no wealthy guy so I want to to it smartly. Any suggestions on smart, cost effective upgrades to what is basically a bare panel at the moment with no ADSB? I appreciate all suggestions right up front.

My opinion is to clear out all of the junk, then clean up all of the wires, then install 1 val-com 2000. plus am 2 place intercom, and a transponder ADSB capable, then install a iPad.

 

[MuseChaser]

Freeflight Systems 1201 GPS/WAAS Sensor & Antenna is approved by the STC. This is a solution if you do not have a panel mount GPS.

I'm not sure how that would be a more cost-effective solution to adsb mandates than installing a Stratus ESG, unless you also had another piece of equipment that also required a WAAS GPS source that didn't already have one. In your original post, you recommended replacing the transponder and installing the Freeflight 1201c. Why not just replace the transponder with a Stratus ESG and antenna and be done with it? Less money for the equipment, easier and less expensive installation, and one box instead of two. The Freeflight still doesn't get you ifr gps nav capability.. it's just a position source.

I definitely could be missing something...please tell me if I am. I, too, am not a big fan of the Garmin closed system mentality and would love to find a similar cost alternative to their gps175.

 

[Huckster79]

If not for, I’d go tailbeacon if your transponder is good. If it is not then look into the Apereo Stratus esg... an iPad and portable ADSB in is really amazing technology for pennies in comparison with panel stuff...

I fly a Cessna 140 and am making the same decision now, I really don’t want ADSB but it is causing some inconvenient . But if you are not IFR any dine into avionics is a dime you can’t spend burning gas taking in flight and our great land...