New part 135 certificate - possible?

[Richard]

There's a lot that needs to be done to streamline processes so more can be done for the money. You can't not have an FAA or some public regulatory body for air transportation, although getting rid of them would help start reducing the population, and as more airliners start crashing, small planes will start sounding like a heck of a good deal and we could have 100s of thousands of little planes flying around....

How peculiar. In your post only your first sentence is shown. Here as I reply, that one sentece plus something about "100s of thousands of little planes" is also shown.

EDIT: now your post to which I responded shows your entire quote. Hmmm

Anyway, I wanted to say you are being too kind. How dare a govt entity act to prohibit commerce. The FAA, whether by formal agreement or informal policy, condones the creation of a system of immense difficulties designed to inhibit commerce. And the private entity (individual or corporation) must put forward sizeable assets to participate. It's almost tantamount to a taking of property.

 

[jjflys]

I thought the FAA had a dual mandate to both make aviation safe and promote it- oh wait, I guess that only applies to the airlines

 

[schmookeeg]

And you got that from where???

The POI who we met with for a pre-screening cheerfully said so when I asked about timeline to finish our process. He said "oh, no, we're fully staffed now, so there shouldn't be any delays" This after 3 years.

Maybe he was lying and was himself personally working 10 hours/day to cover the load, and just didn't want me to know about it.

I dunno, I'm just one data point, and I have no idea what the trials and tribulations of public-sector workers are like, nor the staffing patterns at the FAA.

 

[ronnieh]

Tim, I to am curious about what you want to do. I know you may not want to discuss specifics on a public forum. I assume you are talking piston engine. Are looking at some kind of freight contract?

 

[Henning]

How peculiar. In your post only your first sentence is shown. Here as I reply, that one sentece plus something about "100s of thousands of little planes" is also shown.

EDIT: now your post to which I responded shows your entire quote. Hmmm

Anyway, I wanted to say you are being too kind. How dare a govt entity act to prohibit commerce. The FAA, whether by formal agreement or informal policy, condones the creation of a system of immense difficulties designed to inhibit commerce. And the private entity (individual or corporation) must put forward sizeable assets to participate. It's almost tantamount to a taking of property.

Nooooo.... Kindness is what we lack too much of already.

Of course government should inhibit commerce to the extent people quit demanding it of them. Of course you block bad business. You are too kind to your conglomerate magnate masters.... Remember, all this crap was written in peoples blood. When enough blood run the public goes "rabble rabble rabble" and we come up with regulation that satisfies the public outcry.

See, what you are proposing would be to go back to the same mistake as before when a much higher percentage of paying passengers were getting killed. See, I have a problem with doing that, because IMO, that's basically dumber than retarded. I know a gal with Downs, she could figure this out... "No..Don't go back to when people were dying".

 

[bgdriveway]

Purchasing a company can be done, but as mentioned by others there are difficulties to work through. I have been a part of a company that was purchased because of the 135 certificate.... I don't know all the details as I am/was not the business guy.

My current employer sent letters to our Senators and representative as he was adding a 137 certificate to the 135 133 ones he has. Stirred up a hornets nest, congressional investigation on some level I think, but he now has 137 cert in hand. If you've been waiting three years for a cert, you might try that.

 

[weilke]

This should work like concealed weapons permits in some states: If they haven't completed their first review of the paperwork and come back with their detailed corrections in 6 months, it is approved with their name on it. May help to motivate them to get moving.

It really shouldn't be that hard to invest money, hire people and pay taxes.

 

[TMetzinger]

Tim, I to am curious about what you want to do. I know you may not want to discuss specifics on a public forum. I assume you are talking piston engine. Are looking at some kind of freight contract?

Nothing specific. I'd had the naive belief that someday operating a C208 or PC12 in a pax/cargo configuration around Block Island and New England would be fun, and that getting a 135 certificate would be a possibility in maybe a year or less.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[RotorAndWing]

Nothing specific. I'd had the naive belief that someday operating a C208 or PC12 in a pax/cargo configuration around Block Island and New England would be fun, and that getting a 135 certificate would be a possibility in maybe a year or less.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

It is possible, the key is going in well prepared. I would suggest starting now by reading 14 CFR 119 and 14 CFR 135 in detail.

I would also recommend buying this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Federal-Aviation-Regulations-Explained-Parts/dp/0884873129/ref=pd_sim_b1

 

[TMetzinger]

It is possible, the key is going in well prepared. I would suggest starting now by reading 14 CFR 119 and 14 CFR 135 in detail.

I would also recommend buying this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Federal-Aviation-Regulations-Explained-Parts/dp/0884873129/ref=pd_sim_b1

Thanks!

I'm not gonna single out the FAA for blame here, from what I've seen there are similar hoops to jump through with local or state govenments to open any other sort of regulated business - like a hot dog stand or a hair salon or a taxi/limo service - with varying degrees of understaffing, corruption, sloth, etc. in the mix.

For anyone new to the business (like me), the difference between how one thinks it should work by only reading the regs and how it works in practice can be both surprising and disheartening.

 

[Ted]

The point about not getting what we pay for I think applies to the government as a whole, but I'm not so sure about the FAA.

Last week, my wife and I had to go in for an emergency passport duplication after putting mine through the washer and needing hers converted to her new name. The process took close to 5 hours, most of which was waiting our turn. First to go through the one security booth (which made airport security look friendly), then to talk to the pre-screener, then to talk to the specialist, then to have the passport printer. Now, we had an appointment, and weren't seen until over two hours past that appointment. The people I talked to had no clue what they were doing, and couldn't make heads or tails of their own job, that they'd seen at least 50 of the exact same thing that day already.

When I've shown up at the FSDO, ACO, Tech Center, or anyplace else for an appointment, the person I meet with has been on time and prepared. He may not have wanted to be in the meeting, but he was on time and prepared for it, asked relevant questions, etc. I didn't have to wait in line, and security was much easier to deal with. Overall, I've found the FAA to be the best government organization to work with.

 

[schmookeeg]

The point about not getting what we pay for I think applies to the government as a whole, but I'm not so sure about the FAA.

Last week, my wife and I had to go in for an emergency passport duplication after putting mine through the washer and needing hers converted to her new name. The process took close to 5 hours, most of which was waiting our turn. First to go through the one security booth (which made airport security look friendly), then to talk to the pre-screener, then to talk to the specialist, then to have the passport printer. Now, we had an appointment, and weren't seen until over two hours past that appointment. The people I talked to had no clue what they were doing, and couldn't make heads or tails of their own job, that they'd seen at least 50 of the exact same thing that day already.

When I've shown up at the FSDO, ACO, Tech Center, or anyplace else for an appointment, the person I meet with has been on time and prepared. He may not have wanted to be in the meeting, but he was on time and prepared for it, asked relevant questions, etc. I didn't have to wait in line, and security was much easier to deal with. Overall, I've found the FAA to be the best government organization to work with.

I agree. The FAA sucks less than several government entities.

 

[denverpilot]

Heh heh. Bumper sticker from that: "We aim to suck less than the other guy."

Probably wouldn't work for a septic system pumping company or vacuum cleaner salesman, though.

 

[Jack Spectre]

You don't want to pay taxes and you don't want to pay user fees, so WTF do you expect the service here to be like? When it comes to government service we get what we pay for.

Geez, are you serious? 40% of my income goes to the f'ing government.

All the money I earn from January to May goes to the Federal, State, County, and Municipal governments. I understand that taxes are necessary. But how much of my money do I have to give up to ensure that government workers do their job?

 

[Ted]

Geez, are you serious? 40% of my income goes to the f'ing government.

All the money I earn from January to May goes to the Federal, State, County, and Municipal governments. I understand that taxes are necessary. But how much of my money do I have to give up to ensure that government workers do their job?

I think the big issue is that so much of your (and my) tax dollars go to non value-added items. So much of it goes towards unemployment, social security, welfare, etc. Then you've got a number of government wastes - things like "You can't get as much fuel next year unless you burn the same amount this year," so you see people putting hours on aircraft and burning oil in the summer just to use it up. Then there are the wastes you see more directly - things like tearing up perfectly good roads yearly to use up construction budget.

As much as I am not a fan of "lean" and "six sigma," the government is actually large enough of an organization that it would benefit from it.

 

[denverpilot]

As much as I am not a fan of "lean" and "six sigma," the government is actually large enough of an organization that it would benefit from it.

That's the thing... they don't see it as a benefit. In normal companies, those methodologies are attempted prior to layoffs and other more draconian cost-cutting measures.

If there's nothing causing any cost-cutting for government, there's no impetus/motivation to even attempt efficiency.

Henning says he doesn't want smaller government, but it's a Catch-22... without the threat of smaller government, you won't get more *efficient* government.

Generally in private business if I make $X in salary + benefits, I must be making or saving the company >$X or I'm gone.

In public business the more "free money" I can get my group/department for the least amount of work, is the mode of operation.

I've known good government workers, there are even some here on this board, but I've never heard any friends who work for government ever say, "I'm on the bubble for a layoff, I need to work harder."

I've heard that sentiment in one way or another in private from private sector workers my whole life. ("I need more sales, or I'm fired." "We have a project that's critical and I'm going to have to work some 70 hour weeks to pull it off." Etc.)

If a FSDO is behind... are they burning the candle at both ends like I have to in my world to PAY for them? I have my doubts that ever happens.

I know some FAA field techs who work on RF systems... those guys are on the road ... a lot. They seem to earn their keep. You don't see Comm or Navaids NOTAM'd OTS for very long. (The direct measure of whether or not the maintenance program as a whole is efficient/effective... Downtime and Mean Time to Recovery... easy metrics.)

FAA, agreed -- is one of the better organizations. Probably because so many inside it are also aviators. FCC used to be that way... if you want to see where FAA *could* go... look at FCC. They're about 10 years ahead, and mostly controlled by politics and special interests and their "spectrum auctions"? Similar to what User Fees would do to FAA.

Yes, FAA would be better funded, but the focus would shift to figuring out how to maximize those fees... just like FCC's focus has shifted to maximizing income from spectrum "leases". Landlord collecting rent payments, instead of Regulator/Engineering Consultant.

Those clerks at the Passport Office that didn't even know their jobs after doing it for years? That's just Welfare of a different sort... jobs for the clueless. I suppose they have to work somewhere.

 

[Henning]

Nothing specific. I'd had the naive belief that someday operating a C208 or PC12 in a pax/cargo configuration around Block Island and New England would be fun, and that getting a 135 certificate would be a possibility in maybe a year or less.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

You get the plane and the clients and you should be able to find a certificate to operate under.

 

[Henning]

Geez, are you serious? 40% of my income goes to the f'ing government.

All the money I earn from January to May goes to the Federal, State, County, and Municipal governments. I understand that taxes are necessary. But how much of my money do I have to give up to ensure that government workers do their job?

How much of your income would go to buying the services that government buys you if you had to buy it for yourself? Bzzz wrong answer because there is no answer. You need a massed community/society/world cooperative effort to get it done, which means everybody needs to pony up. There is no problem with that. What is wrong is that we are allowing the energy sector to score obscene profits into the pockets of a very few people. We need to organize the energy sector just like they do in Rural America, we need a National Energy Co-op. It was amazing how my power bill from the Coop was less than half that for the same usage as with the big TX provider in our area.

 

[Ted]

Those clerks at the Passport Office that didn't even know their jobs after doing it for years? That's just Welfare of a different sort... jobs for the clueless. I suppose they have to work somewhere.

There were some people who seemed to know what they were doing. But there was no form of communication, the fact we made an appointment was irrelevant. It felt like Soviet Russia - get in line.

Our person was very nice, but had no clue what to do. We basically had to tell her how to do her job for her, and then she figured it out. I agree - welfare of the other sort.

 

[Everskyward]

The process took close to 5 hours, most of which was waiting our turn.

I think 5 hours is pretty fast. When I went to get a passport renewal I came with a letter from my employer and my pictures like they said. I waited in line about 10 minutes to submit the application and they said to come back 2 or 3 hours later. I was surprised they could even construct a passport that fast. Then I told my flying buddy how easy the process was but when he went to have it done they told him his passport wouldn't be ready until the next day, or maybe it was two days....

 

[Ted]

I think 5 hours is pretty fast. When I went to get a passport renewal I came with a letter from my employer and my pictures like they said. I waited in line about 10 minutes to submit the application and they said to come back 2 or 3 hours later. I was surprised they could even construct a passport that fast. Then I told my flying buddy how easy the process was but when he went to have it done they told him his passport wouldn't be ready until the next day, or maybe it was two days....

Perhaps I'm not explaining my complaint particularly well.

1) I arrive at the passport office and it takes me about 30 minutes to get through security, as there is only one station.

2) I wait for 2 hours to see someone.

3) The person I see doesn't know how to do her job.

4) I wait 2 hours for the passport.

Item 4 I agree isn't too bad. Items 1-3 are the real problem. I should not have to spend that much of my time going through security and waiting to see someone who then doesn't know how to do her job. Waiting 2 hours for printing the passport doesn't seem all that bad, I agree. But the others are.

 

[Henning]

Those clerks at the Passport Office that didn't even know their jobs after doing it for years? That's just Welfare of a different sort... jobs for the clueless. I suppose they have to work somewhere.

Why would you bring them up? Last time I needed a passport they told me a time to show up. Within 5 minutes of that time I had been processed and told to return at 4. At 4 I arrived and got in the back of a line that wrapped all the way around the room and 15 minutes later I was walking out with my passport. I was so impressed I sent an email to the Secretary of State saying so. Last spring in Amsterdam I needed pages added so I could get a visa from Russia. Drop it off before lunch, pick it up after lunch. Do you have a clue as to all the crap the Department of State handles?

 

[denverpilot]

Why would you bring them up?

I didn't. Ted did.

 

[Everskyward]

Perhaps I'm not explaining my complaint particularly well.

Security? I don't even remember there being security at the Denver passport office. Mostly I was commenting on the fact that I was surprised I could get a passport in 5 hours, as opposed to a couple days, or a few weeks if I had not paid the expedited fee.

 

[Ted]

Security? I don't even remember there being security at the Denver passport office. Mostly I was commenting on the fact that I was surprised I could get a passport in 5 hours, as opposed to a couple days, or a few weeks if I had not paid the expedited fee.

People are nicer in Denver, maybe they didn't feel a need for security.

You're right that it's nice that you can get it in 5 hours. However the journey to get to that could be far optimized.

 

[Everskyward]

People are nicer in Denver, maybe they didn't feel a need for security.

I'm not sure about nicer but the must be less paranoid.

You're right that it's nice that you can get it in 5 hours. However the journey to get to that could be far optimized.

I agree. It sounds like you had a couple of idiots working on your case. My case was also simpler in that I was just trying to get a very expedited renewal since we leave the country quite often and sometimes on short notice.

 

[denverpilot]

FAA, agreed -- is one of the better organizations. Probably because so many inside it are also aviators. FCC used to be that way... if you want to see where FAA *could* go... look at FCC. They're about 10 years ahead, and mostly controlled by politics and special interests and their "spectrum auctions"? Similar to what User Fees would do to FAA.

Yes, FAA would be better funded, but the focus would shift to figuring out how to maximize those fees... just like FCC's focus has shifted to maximizing income from spectrum "leases". Landlord collecting rent payments, instead of Regulator/Engineering Consultant.

As if on cue, to prove FCC is lost to money-grubbing...

Congress is going to authorize them to "share" in the proceeds of auctioning off the D-Block, that no one wanted under their last auction's terms... which were, to build a nation-wide Public Safety radio system that no local agency even wants, nor wants to pay for...

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9219982/Obama_jobs_bill_includes_spectrum_auctions

Would anyone like some pork with their pork? Unbelievable. If such a system were needed, a private company would be banging down FCC's door begging them for spectrum.