New Mexico Statute 7-7-317

[SkyHog]

I'll start with the statute:

66-7-317. Driving on roadways laned for traffic.

Whenever any roadway has been divided into two or more clearly marked lanes for traffic the following rules in addition to all others consistent herewith shall apply:

A. a vehicle shall be driven as nearly as practicable entirely within a single lane and shall not be moved from such lane until the driver has first ascertained that such movement can be made with safety;

B. upon a roadway which is divided into three lanes a vehicle shall not be driven in the center lane except when overtaking a [and] passing another vehicle where the roadway is clearly visible and such center lane is clear of traffic within a safe distance, or in preparation for a left turn or where such center lane is at the time allocated exclusively to traffic moving in the direction the vehicle is proceeding and is signposted to given [give] notice of such allocation; and

C. official signs may be erected directing slow-moving traffic to use a designated lane or designating those lanes to be used by traffic moving in a particular direction regardless of the center of the roadway and drivers of vehicles shall obey the directions of every such sign.

Ok - here's the deal. My room mate and myself were driving to his old apartment to get some of his stuff to move into the house. On the way, we pulled in between two cops, and pulled up to a red light. Cop in front stops, looks, runs the red light and doesn't pull anyone over (I'll explain how I know in a minute). I immediately pull out my cellphone to report the police car (A105) because I have no tolerance for police officers that violate the laws they are intended to protect.

As soon as I pull out my cellphone, the other cop pulls right up on our tail. Light turns green, and she follows us very, very closely (almost dangerously close). The minute I finish my report, she turns on her lights and pulls us over.

Here's how I know the other cop was not doing anything important enough to run the light: He joins the other cop in the parking lot we pull into to harrass the hell out of my room mate (who was driving). They start bantering, obviously trying to get my friend to be disrespectful. It eventually works, after about the 10th time he's asked "How many beers have you had, seriously?"

"Give me a f***ing breathalizer if you're too dumb to take 'none' for an answer" he responds. Oops.

Cops immediately begin searching the car from the outside (perfectly legal, its a giant van). Turns out, my friend has a suspended license from a seatbelt violation that the system screwed up years before that he had taken care of. They tow the van because of the suspended license, refusing to let me drive because "I should have driven in the first place."

They have nothing else to write the van up for except "Failure to maintain lane," which is crap. The van is huge, and my roommate was doing his best to keep it in between the narrow lanes.

The road is 2 way, one lane each way with a giant shoulder on each side for bicycles I presume, but the lanes are really narrow. The wording on the ticket is as follows:

Vehicle travelling WB - from San Pedro drove on line (shoulder, right side), 2 times, driver has suspended DL.

Now - using the cop's description, and the story, my roommate is going to fight this in court, because the second citation for suspended DL would not have mattered had it not been for the reasonless stop in the first place, which I believe was caused by my audacity to ensure that cops don't break the law.

Does he have a case?

 

[alaskaflyer]

Sigh. Your friend would be better off fighting the case over the "incorrect" suspension in the first place. That he isn't thinking of this calls into question your assertion that it was the state's screwup, not his.

The fact is that the motor vehicle code is written in such a way that any of us could be pulled over and ticketed for numerous things daily. I think your friend has a snowballs chance in hell of doing anything other than getting in worse trouble in court, which, based on his attitude on the street, is likely to happen. ("hey judge, if you don't believe me you can go to...") Of course I don't know him, I'm only basing that on the story

My two cents. If he even touched the lane marker he is technically in violation. The Supreme Court says an officer's actual reason for pulling you over doesn't matter, so long as a lawful reason exists to stop you.

I ran red lights all the time as a cop - but only late at night. Usually I had about twenty calls pending at any one time, and I didn't run around all night with my emergency lights flashing.

How come you are always getting tangled up in legal situations?

 

[Dave Rains]

Another thing to consider is the white copy of the ticket (at least the ones I write) have an area on the back for the officer to write additional comments on, not seen by the recipient. If the officer believed your friend was not cooperative, it will be noted there. Not someting you want to learn in front of the judge. Agree, the complaint should be about the status of the warrant.
Dave Rains

 

[Sleek-Jet]

One of the happiest days of my life was when I put ABQ in my rear view mirror for the last time. I got pulled over by one of ABQ's finest because I went around him on the road while he was doing 10 under the speed limit. I never got above the posted speed (the truck was on cruise control). He followed me for a while, then lit me up and I pulled over. The very first words out of his mouth were "You must be stupid, or drunk... no one passes a cop." He then procededs to dink around for 20 minutes till he figures I haven't really done anything wrong and sends me on my way.

I don't know if your friend has a case or not, but pleading Not Guilty to the ticket will give him enough time to get the records on the previous suspended license case.

 

[wbarnhill]

One of the happiest days of my life was when I put ABQ in my rear view mirror for the last time. I got pulled over by one of ABQ's finest because I went around him on the road while he was doing 10 under the speed limit. I never got above the posted speed (the truck was on cruise control). He followed me for a while, then lit me up and I pulled over. The very first words out of his mouth were "You must be stupid, or drunk... no one passes a cop." He then procededs to dink around for 20 minutes till he figures I haven't really done anything wrong and sends me on my way.

I don't know if your friend has a case or not, but pleading Not Guilty to the ticket will give him enough time to get the records on the previous suspended license case.

It's sad when we have such low standards for our justice system that we see things done by our police force that are considered wrong, yet we let it go because that's just the way things are.

I say good luck to Nick and his friend. It's time our society stopped playing nice to thugs in uniform and demanded an accountable and reasonable police force.

 

[poadeleted20]

It is highly likely that the entire engagement was captured on the old "cruiser-cam." Your friend should be very careful in pursuing this lest your friend discover that the photographic record of the incident supports the cops' statements on what happened. As for the ticket, that's just window-dressing at this point. As soon as the cops found out about the suspended license, your friend was toast.

Bottom line: tell your friend to either get a lawyer (and do exactly what s/he says) or plan to really grovel before the judge. The alternative will be too expensive to contemplate.

 

[EdFred]

Bah!

I got out of my last ticket by taking it to court. All thanks to the cruiser-cam. Get the copy of the video.

 

[EdFred]

I ran red lights all the time as a cop -

Figures. Laws only apply to non-officers it seems.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Figures. Laws only apply to non-officers it seems.

Yes, Ed, that is correct

Of course, the dozen people waiting for me didn't seem to mind.

 

[alaskaflyer]

It's sad when we have such low standards for our justice system that we see things done by our police force that are considered wrong, yet we let it go because that's just the way things are.

I say good luck to Nick and his friend. It's time our society stopped playing nice to thugs in uniform and demanded an accountable and reasonable police force.

Everybody has their favorite bad cop story. No one wants to post about the times they were the jackass.

OBTW they are usually the same story seen through polarized lenses B)

 

[gprellwitz]

Yes, Ed, that is correct

Of course, the dozen people waiting for me didn't seem to mind.

Well, that same argument could be said of the dozen people waiting for the cable service van, or the meals-on-wheels van, or whatever. Does the Comcast technician get to run red lights?

IMHO, if there's an *emergency*, you should be using your lights and go through the red light. Otherwise, you should wait like averybody else. If you don't have time to get to all your work/cases/sites in a day when following the law, it means that they need to hire more officers, not that you are approved to choose which rules to obey.

Yes, LEOs perform a valuable public service. I do too, when I'm flying for LifeLine Pilots or giving blood. Does that mean I get to run red lights with impunity on my way to do those things? Are the FARs magically suspended for me when I'm filed "compassion Flight?"

 

[EdFred]

The best one I saw was a cop throw on his "emergency" lights so he could turn left into McDonalds during rush hour. He didn't go inside, he went through the drive through. Some emergency.

 

[EdFred]

Everybody has their favorite bad cop story. No one wants to post about the times they were the jackass.

OBTW they are usually the same story seen through polarized lenses B)

My "favorite" story involves a 4th amendment violation, the involuntary waiving of Miranda, and lying under oath by the cops. Then again throwing a felony on an innocent's record is probably a real knee slapper for you.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Well, that same argument could be said of the dozen people waiting for the cable service van, or the meals-on-wheels van, or whatever. Does the Comcast technician get to run red lights?

IMHO, if there's an *emergency*, you should be using your lights and go through the red light. Otherwise, you should wait like averybody else. If you don't have time to get to all your work/cases/sites in a day when following the law, it means that they need to hire more officers, not that you are approved to choose which rules to obey.

Yes, LEOs perform a valuable public service. I do too, when I'm flying for LifeLine Pilots or giving blood. Does that mean I get to run red lights with impunity on my way to do those things? Are the FARs magically suspended for me when I'm filed "compassion Flight?"

I don't know Grant, is the cablecast customer or the person waiting for their charity meal getting the **** stomped out of them by their spouse or waiting to report getting held up by gunpoint? (well, maybe the Comcast customer...) Add to that the "if a tree falls in a forest" theory.

My only point is that perception is usually one-sided, filtered by one's own blinders. I've been doing this for eighteen years and I've yet to find one person who was glad to be pulled over doing something wrong, or who are happy that some members of our society are by necessity empowered to do some things that others aren't. Add to that the natural human inclination to ***** about as many things as possible...

This is - as usual - going to descend into a cop-bashing thread and so I will direct you to post number 10 above and call it at that. Nick, tell your friend good luck - I'm sure he was not at all personally responsible for the situation he is in.

 

[Ken Ibold]

The best one I saw was a cop throw on his "emergency" lights so he could turn left into McDonalds during rush hour. He didn't go inside, he went through the drive through. Some emergency.

It might have been. Did his burger have too much salt on it?

 

[alaskaflyer]

By the way I am human, I have driven like a jackass on a regular basis just like every other American. I get pulled over about once a year, on average, usually late at night when the police or state are looking for drunks. Sometimes they have me speeding. Not once in twenty years have I ever been cited for a moving violation. Not once have I "badged" my way out of a ticket or even let them know that I was law enforcement, at least not until the "official" part of the contact was over. Could little things called...attitude...and humility...have something to do with that? I think so. When I get caught doing something wrong I own up to it, apologize profusely, and am sincere about it. Maybe I've been lucky. But the only thing that merits the word "oops" is my original mistake in driving.

 

[alaskaflyer]

My "favorite" story involves a 4th amendment violation, the involuntary waiving of Miranda, and lying under oath by the cops. Then again throwing a felony on an innocent's record is probably a real knee slapper for you.

Either tell us the story or leave it alone, already B)

 

[EdFred]

It might have been. Did his burger have too much salt on it?

I dunno. I didn't see him come out of the McD's.

 

[EdFred]

Either tell us the story or leave it alone, already B)

You have the pertinent facts.

 

[SkyHog]

For what its worth, I'm always respectful to cops when they pull me over, or even when I'm talking to them when they're in uniform, but honestly, had I been abused as badly as he was, I would have snapped too.

I forgot, afterwards, when we were sitting around, waiting for my other friend to come pick us up, I asked mr A105 (who was still at the scene) if me reporting him had anything to do with the stop, and he only said, "You think I have to stop at a redlight at 2am in the middle of nowhere? Your report will likely be ignored. Things would be a lot better if you and everyone else were not trying to screw over the system by reporting mundane things like this."

That's not a direct quote, but still.

Also - when I tried to video tape the Police Service Aide when he was searching the vehicle for real (no permission obtained, but I suspect since it was being impounded, they have every right to do so at this point), he started getting defensive. "Why are you video taping me, turn that off."

I told him that as the night was apparently skewed against our favor, I wanted to make sure nothing funny was being planted. I also made sure to let him know that since he was not a police officer, I had no reason to trust him with the safety and security of anything yet.

I actually have the video on my phone. Lemme see if I can grab it off my phone. Its interesting to see the prickishness in action.

 

[alaskaflyer]

You have the pertinent facts.

So, obviously society rose up in protest, those officers were disciplined, and your friend's record was expunged

 

[gprellwitz]

I don't know Grant, is the cablecast customer or the person waiting for their charity meal getting the **** stomped out of them by their spouse or waiting to report getting held up by gunpoint? (well, maybe the Comcast customer...) Add to that the "if a tree falls in a forest" theory.

The former constitutes an emergency response. The latter falls under the "hire more officers."

My only point is that perception is usually one-sided, filtered by one's own blinders. I've been doing this for eighteen years and I've yet to find one person who was glad to be pulled over doing something wrong, or who are happy that some members of our society are by necessity empowered to do some things that others aren't. Add to that the natural human inclination to ***** about as many things as possible...

This is - as usual - going to descend into a cop-bashing thread and so I will direct you to post number 10 above and call it at that. Nick, tell your friend good luck - I'm sure he was not at all personally responsible for the situation he is in.

Please realize that I am not bashing cops, nor do I intend to. You're right in implying that no one likes being called to task, be it by a LEO, a parent, or a teacher. Frequently the response is to get defensive and sometimes it's to lash out. I've been known to do that myself (verbally!), especially when I do something really stupid. Just ask Leslie!

There are good cops and bad cops and everything in between. You know, you might even think that they were human! Sometimes even good cops do bad (or at least "grey") things, liking taking advantage of their position. Along that continuum are things like taking comped meals, disobeying traffic laws, showing preferential treatment based on personal relationship, and outright felonies. Being a cop doesn't make these things right, but often excuses some of them in the mind of some officers.

Peace, officer!

 

[EdFred]

So, obviously society rose up in protest, those officers were disciplined, and your friend's record was expunged

Officers disciplined? Hahahaha! Right. No, nothing happened to them. They went on their merry little way. I mean, who are you going to believe, two officers lying their asses off or a 17 year old telling the truth? Cops never lie, remember?

 

[Bill]

Could little things called...attitude...and humility...have something to do with that? I think so. When I get caught doing something wrong I own up to it, apologize profusely, and am sincere about it. Maybe I've been lucky. But the only thing that merits the word "oops" is my original mistake in driving.

Actually, that goes a long way

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

I'm gonna set y'all straight on 4th Amendment traffic stop laws.

You do one thing that is in violation of the law and you can be pulled over. The officer's subjective intent doesn't matter. If he saw you break the law, probable cause (above reasonable suspicion) immediately exists to put you in cuffs on the spot. Period. Usually you'll get a citation, but an arrest is possible and entirely legal.

In the 10th Circuit, which includes NM, it is legal for the police to stop a validly tagged vehicle if those tags go back to an owner whose license is suspended. The theory is that the owner is most likely the one driving, so thereby a brief investigatory stop is reasonable, thus not violating the 4th Amendment. I personally don't agree with that, but it is the law.

Even if dude's license was not actually suspended, if the computer told the cops it was, the stop is still ok. That is because officers are allowed to rely on the facts known to them - and it is reasonable to rely on what the records computer tells them.

So what these police officers did was entirely reasonable. You attracted attention to your car when you called dispatch, and the officer behind you in turn checked your buddy's tags - which is allowed for any reason. Period. He weaved, and his license came back as suspended, so the stop was entirely reasonable. Even assuming the license weren't suspended, the stop was still justified - he broke the law. Period.

This is a classic case of tough sh*t. The suspended DL license citations will be dismissed. But the ticket for weaving will remain.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

It's sad when we have such low standards for our justice system that we see things done by our police force that are considered wrong, yet we let it go because that's just the way things are.

He was trolling for drunk drivers... maybe the guy was having a bad night, who knows... I was respectfull and courteous, but I know the cop was disappointed that I wasn't toasted.

 

[SkyHog]

I'm gonna set y'all straight on 4th Amendment traffic stop laws.

You do one thing that is in violation of the law and you can be pulled over. The officer's subjective intent doesn't matter. If he saw you break the law, probable cause (above reasonable suspicion) immediately exists to put you in cuffs on the spot. Period. Usually you'll get a citation, but an arrest is possible and entirely legal.

In the 10th Circuit, which includes NM, it is legal for the police to stop a validly tagged vehicle if those tags go back to an owner whose license is suspended. The theory is that the owner is most likely the one driving, so thereby a brief investigatory stop is reasonable, thus not violating the 4th Amendment. I personally don't agree with that, but it is the law.

Even if dude's license was not actually suspended, if the computer told the cops it was, the stop is still ok. That is because officers are allowed to rely on the facts known to them - and it is reasonable to rely on what the records computer tells them.

So what these police officers did was entirely reasonable. You attracted attention to your car when you called dispatch, and the officer behind you in turn checked your buddy's tags - which is allowed for any reason. Period. He weaved, and his license came back as suspended, so the stop was entirely reasonable. Even assuming the license weren't suspended, the stop was still justified - he broke the law. Period.

This is a classic case of tough sh*t. The suspended DL license citations will be dismissed. But the ticket for weaving will remain.

Well, that sucks. So who pays for the tow? My friend stuck for the bill for that, too? Had it not been for the clerical error in the first place, the tow would not have happened...

 

[SkyHog]

And the video is very uninteresting, as all you can see is the 8 spotlights all shined on the van, bleeding into the video, and you can hear me talking to the Service Aid, but not the responses from the Aid.

FWIW, after the van was towed, we started talking with the officers in a BSing kind of way, killing time for my friend to come get us, and we asked why they had so many police officers around for a routine traffic stop. The answer was something along the lines of "spotlights tend to make people get nervous. We wanted to make sure y'all were good and nervous....it brings out the true nature of people."

That was weird. I did get to make fun of the original stopping cop's car though, and had the other officers join me in making fun of her. Her spotlight was dimmer than the rest, and she had a Ford cruiser, which apparently the cops didn't like. She wasn't pleased that when I asked her to turn on the siren for us and she said no, like 5 other cops immediately went and turned them on.

At this point, the citations were written, and the tow company was enroute. So I figured it was ok to playfully make fun of her.

She was very defensive the whole time, which was kind of humorous. My friend said something like "Dang, I should have known better than to drive between two cops" and everyone else laughed. She simply responded with "Well, you swerved, had you not swerved..." and one of the other cops told her to lighten up.

That was a very enjoyable end.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

Well, that sucks. So who pays for the tow? My friend stuck for the bill for that, too? Had it not been for the clerical error in the first place, the tow would not have happened...

I wish I could tell you that the State would. It certainly should in my view - because the car should not have been towed had it not been for their mistake. Note, I'm not saying that the cops were at fault, as they acted on the best information available to them. Instead, this is a clerical error - either someone at the court forgot to send your check to the DMV, it got put in the computer under the wrong name, or some other clerical typo at the DMV.

But unfortunately, my bet would be that this one is on your buddy. It sucks, but the government has immunity for pretty much everything.

Regardless, look into it. I don't know where to tell you to start, though. I'd try a friendly call to the DMV, and maybe the court. It would be worth writing a letter to your state representative, cc'ing the governor, complaining about it.

This is a perfect example of why, about 1-2 weeks after you pay your tickets, it's a good idea to call both the Court and the DMV to make sure it has all processed.

 

[markb5900]

Only going to comment on the suspended license. As someone that a LONG time ago had my license suspended, for you guessed it, for driving without a license. LOL (15)
Even though my suspension was up, I had to go and REQUEST that my license be re-instated before I could get even a permit. It was not AUTOMATIC that everything was "ok".
Not sure if New Mexico is that way or not, but Illinois is.

Mark B

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

Only going to comment on the suspended license. As someone that a LONG time ago had my license suspended, for you guessed it, for driving without a license. LOL (15)
Even though my suspension was up, I had to go and REQUEST that my license be re-instated before I could get even a permit. It was not AUTOMATIC that everything was "ok".
Not sure if New Mexico is that way or not, but Illinois is.

Mark B

I think it's that way in a lot places. And that trap catches a lot of people, because it's something that it would be reasonable to assume happens automatically.

 

[wbarnhill]

Everybody has their favorite bad cop story. No one wants to post about the times they were the jackass.

OBTW they are usually the same story seen through polarized lenses B)

For the record I've yet to be anything but courteous to a cop. Still got that one ticket for speeding (81/70, yet oddly enough, cruise control was set at 75). Didn't backtalk the cop, when he asked how fast I was going, I told him 75, because that's what I had the cruise control set on. SC State Trooper just came back with "Well I clocked you at 81." I also love the fact that when showing up for the court date to get it taken care of, 90% of the troopers other victims all happened to get the exact same ticket I did. 81/70.

The idea that being nice and courteous to an LEO will get you out of a ticket is sheer luck at best.

That said, I'm not intending to bash any police officers. I just would like officers to be held to a high standard, which includes honesty, integrity, and level headedness.

 

[etsisk]

You have the pertinent facts.

Never mind. I'm not responding to this.

 

[EdFred]

Never mind. I'm not responding to this... story.

If you want a "story" ask the cops. If you want the FACTS ask me.
You've got the facts, end of story. You can now go back to blindly defending those *%&#*$!s.

And this did not involve a traffic stop.

 

[poadeleted20]

Thread closed. If you want to continue in this vein, take it to the Spin Zone -- civilly!