New iPad

timwinters

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I guess it's time to break down and submit to Apple's forced obsolescence scheme. My air2 is getting clunky beyond bearability.

I found this seemingly great price...am I missing something?

http://www.macmall.com/p/Apple-iPad...VYACQpBr6G0cN5XcnLoAwaS4uihYhWlhoCUbUQAvD_BwE

Or...Anyone have a "go-to" good price retailer for these things?

Edit: oh, I see, this one seems to be a 5th generation and not a pro since it has tha A9 processor. (?)

Still, might be a decent value?

My search was: apple ipad pro 9.7 128gb wifi + cellular
 
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My AdBlocker blocks that website, usually the low prices I see are on refurbished units, sometimes this isn’t specified.
 
I guess it's time to break down and submit to Apple's forced obsolescence scheme. My air2 is getting clunky beyond bearability.

How old? My Air 2 is still doing fine. Garmin Pilot is only slightly perceptibly slower. But I have stayed on iOS 10. I bought mine used off of eBay 3 yrs ago. 128 gb.
 
...Anyone have a "go-to" good price retailer for these things?

Edit: oh, I see, this one seems to be a 5th generation and not a pro since it has tha A9 processor. (?)

Still, might be a decent value?
Yes, it's last year's model. Functionally pretty much the same as the latest, with the exception of Apple Pencil support. If that's important, you may have to pony up the $160 (plus the outrageous pencil cost). I got the 10.5 pro and pencil last year, it is a nicely engineered combo and works great.

You can shop the net for price/availability, but price for a new item doesn't vary much. I usually end up at bhphotovideo; the comments offered seem more thoughtful than those at Amazon.
HTH
 
How old? My Air 2 is still doing fine. Garmin Pilot is only slightly perceptibly slower. But I have stayed on iOS 10. I bought mine used off of eBay 3 yrs ago. 128 gb.

I have no idea when I bought it. Likely mine's clunkier than yours because I've been updating to the latest OS's. A mistake I'm sure. It takes Foreflight 20 to 30 s cones just to boot up completely these days.
 
How old? My Air 2 is still doing fine. Garmin Pilot is only slightly perceptibly slower. But I have stayed on iOS 10. I bought mine used off of eBay 3 yrs ago. 128 gb.

I find it depends. Once you start adding wx, traffic, dynamic maps...it really slows down. If you disable all that you get better performance but of course you ate missing functionality.

I wonder if the extra memory you have helps as well?
 
Apple online refurbished store. You have to hunt a bit for it. Essentially new condition devices with full Apple warranty. Be wary of refurbished from other sources.
 
Apple online refurbished store. You have to hunt a bit for it. Essentially new condition devices with full Apple warranty. Be wary of refurbished from other sources.

Yes, other sources will be hit and miss. Given there is no way of telling how the battery was treated by PO and replacing batteries is a b*$#&, the savings only is around 20%, I would get new.
 
Yes, other sources will be hit and miss. Given there is no way of telling how the battery was treated by PO and replacing batteries is a b*$#&, the savings only is around 20%, I would get new.

Apple refurbishes their devices to new condition, and provides the same warranty as new, so there I see no risk when purchasing from them. Refurbished devices even qualify for AppleCare. They are essentially new devices which simply cannot be resold as new.

Refurbished from other reputable sellers (carriers, big box, etc.) are likely returns or open box items without enough use during the return window to have any meaningful impact on battery condition. However, the device may have cosmetic blemishes and the warranty may be ticking, so there is some level of risk with this option.
 
Apple online refurbished store. You have to hunt a bit for it. Essentially new condition devices with full Apple warranty. Be wary of refurbished from other sources.
This! and you can get applecare on it too.. Bought a 2012 MBP in 2012 from there.. couldn't tell it from a new one.
 
Apple refurbishes their devices to new condition, and provides the same warranty as new, so there I see no risk when purchasing from them. Refurbished devices even qualify for AppleCare. They are essentially new devices which simply cannot be resold as new.

But they do not qualify for your credit card’s warranty extension, which many have. And with Apple forcing obsolescence, one could reasonably expect said credit card to hand you back your money when Apple refuses to repair it two years after AppleCare+ expires.

If you care about the long tail and a no risk extra two years if the thing croaks. Probably won’t croak, but nice to know they’d have to buy a new one or hand back the full purchase price.

Unfortunately it’ll probably keep working fine and make for a nice paperweight because the software will keep bloating.
 
P.S. AFAIK only Citi still does two year extensions. I hate credit cards with a passion but anything that costs more than X that I want two more years of warranty past the manufacturer on it, is run through the Citi card.
 
Rule #1 of apple, never “update” iOS unless you REALLY need to. Even the 4 year old devices are plenty powerful enough to run most anything as long as you don’t install apples bloatware.
 
But they do not qualify for your credit card’s warranty extension, which many have. And with Apple forcing obsolescence, one could reasonably expect said credit card to hand you back your money when Apple refuses to repair it two years after AppleCare+ expires.

As far as I can tell, for most credit cards (including Citi), manufacturer refurbished devices still qualify for extended warranty coverage as long as they are sold with the standard manufacturer warranty, which is the case with Apple-sourced refurbished devices. For cards where refurbished is an exclusion, Apple refurbished is still a good risk.

The “planned obsolescence” of Apple products is a myth without any material basis in fact. Yes, software bloat is a real thing, but that impacts every manufacturer. Apple has done a better job keeping their devices alive and supported than pretty much any other manufacturer, but obsolescence is a persistent reality with technology. Even if Apple did plan obsolescence to drive new device sales, that’s a great trade off in return for the fact that they aren’t in the business of collecting and selling information about me. If it’s free or cheap, you’re probably paying with your privacy.
 
As far as I can tell, for most credit cards (including Citi), manufacturer refurbished devices still qualify for extended warranty coverage as long as they are sold with the standard manufacturer warranty, which is the case with Apple-sourced refurbished devices. For cards where refurbished is an exclusion, Apple refurbished is still a good risk.

Citi specifically calls out “new only” in their ToS. Refurbs aren’t new. They don’t qualify. Even factory refurbs.

The “planned obsolescence” of Apple products is a myth without any material basis in fact. Yes, software bloat is a real thing, but that impacts every manufacturer. Apple has done a better job keeping their devices alive and supported than pretty much any other manufacturer, but obsolescence is a persistent reality with technology. Even if Apple did plan obsolescence to drive new device sales, that’s a great trade off in return for the fact that they aren’t in the business of collecting and selling information about me. If it’s free or cheap, you’re probably paying with your privacy.

Saying one manufacturer doesn’t obsolete things because they all suck at code optimization or accurately defining their product lifespan is really just rationalization of bad behavior by all, and not a proper defense for the behavior, either. The privacy thing is neither here nor there in that point.

And I don’t believe it anyway. They know their product lifespan. Pretending it’s years longer than the software will actually run on the hardware is disingenuous at best.

They know they design hardware that will last X years and their average bloat rate will make that hardware useless doing standard updates in X-many years, way before the hardware dies.

Just because the industry does it, doesn’t make it right. It’s the most unprofessional aspect of the entire tech industry these days, for those of us who remember systems design meetings and murder boards where we TURNED DOWN sloppy and poorly performing software for release because it crushed systems we were still selling service contracts on.

And THAT is how you tell what Apple really knows about their combined life cycle. How long will they sell AppleCare Plus for? Whenever that runs out, they know the headaches in the support division are too high and the costs too high to put up with the software division’s crap anymore on those products.

We sold service contacts that went out a decade on our stuff. We HAD to make software engineering meet a performance standard down to tens of milliseconds even as they added features over that entire 10 years. It CAN be done. The performance tests weren’t optional because in telecom, timing is everything.

In the few cases it couldn’t or shouldn’t we clearly announced what features would be DISABLED on older hardware. That way customers weren’t annoyed by their boxes slowing down for things they never wanted and never bought in the first place.

Case in point. People here say they run aviation apps just fine on iOS 10. A lot of junk comes with iOS 11 that isn’t necessary for security-only updates. It could be a choice, maintain security or keep up with bloatware. Apple doesn’t want to maintain the old stuff separately mainly because it drives sales. Not because it isn’t possible.
 
that's only $30 under the same price at the Apple store. With a veteran discount, I paid $399 last night for a new 128 GB ipad. But wifi only, no cell.
 
Rule #1 of apple, never “update” iOS unless you REALLY need to. Even the 4 year old devices are plenty powerful enough to run most anything as long as you don’t install apples bloatware.


Moore's law - every 18 months, the processing power of CPUs double.
Eroom's law - the hardware requirements of the OS is twice as high every 1.5 years.
 
Moore's law - every 18 months, the processing power of CPUs double.
Eroom's law - the hardware requirements of the OS is twice as high every 1.5 years.

And really what do I get for it? More emojis, spyware, and windows that swoosh around?

Frankly I’d prefer a lighter version of iOS
 
Citi specifically calls out “new only” in their ToS. Refurbs aren’t new. They don’t qualify. Even factory refurbs.

I see no such language relative to the extended warranty coverage: http://i.info4.citi.com/wpm/100164/PDF/Guide1.pdf


Saying one manufacturer doesn’t obsolete things because they all suck at code optimization or accurately defining their product lifespan is really just rationalization of bad behavior by all, and not a proper defense for the behavior, either. The privacy thing is neither here nor there in that point.

I'm just pointing out the weakness of the idea that Apple designs for obsolescence. The reality would seem to indicate otherwise, especially when comparing Apple's record with that of competitors.

For example, my wife still uses an iPhone 5s, with original battery, running the latest iOS, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the performance of the phone or the apps that she uses every day. Sure, the battery life isn't what it used to be, but that's a consumable item. Regardless, it's a 5 year old phone going back 6 hardware revisions, so I consider that to be a pretty darn good record of support. In addition, with the release of iOS 12 (which will support the 5s), Apple will have provided 5 major OS updates for that 5 year old hardware. If that's all the life we get and must replace it after 5 years, that's a fine record of performance and durability, and in line with the 3-5 year lifecycle which is common for most computing hardware. As the installed base for a device diminishes, it's understandable that support for that device will eventually end.
 
Third bullet item under the “What’s not covered” section.

“Used, antique or pre-owned items.”

Manufacturer-refurbished items are none of those, that's why they are refurbished. That document specifically excludes "refurbished" items from price protection, but makes no such exclusion for extended warranty coverage.

Indeed, a quick perusal appears to indicate that most credit card extended warranties do in fact apply to refurbished items which are sold with a manufacturer warranty. Of course, there are exceptions, but Citi does not appear to be one of them.
 
Android devices are obsolete just as quick
 
Manufacturer-refurbished items are none of those, that's why they are refurbished. That document specifically excludes "refurbished" items from price protection, but makes no such exclusion for extended warranty coverage.

Indeed, a quick perusal appears to indicate that most credit card extended warranties do in fact apply to refurbished items which are sold with a manufacturer warranty. Of course, there are exceptions, but Citi does not appear to be one of them.

They’re most certainly pre-owned for the most part.

I can call them if you want. I bet they say “new items only”.
 
Android devices are obsolete just as quick

As previously mentioned, perhaps not forcefully enough, defending one rapist’s with another rapist, isn’t a valid defense.

Oh, I meant to say software seller. Oops.
 
As previously mentioned, perhaps not forcefully enough, defending one rapist’s with another rapist, isn’t a valid defense.

Oh, I meant to say software seller. Oops.

Idk man my android devices were all pretty slow after the typical 2-3 year lifecycle. I got my dad an Asus tablet years ago back when it was one of the best you could get. It was a complete turd after a few years. Keep in mind I was a hardcore Android guy. Used to root, run custom ROMs, kernels, etc. You name it I did it. Got old after a while. Don’t get me wrong, I think some of the new Androids are nice devices.
 
Idk man my android devices were all pretty slow after the typical 2-3 year lifecycle. I got my dad an Asus tablet years ago back when it was one of the best you could get. It was a complete turd after a few years. Keep in mind I was a hardcore Android guy. Used to root, run custom ROMs, kernels, etc. You name it I did it. Got old after a while. Don’t get me wrong, I think some of the new Androids are nice devices.

I never said Android was any better than Apple. I’ve definitely said $2000 to stay on the Apple merry go round isn’t worth it.

Perhaps you’re thinking of someone else who plays favorites. I say they all suck my left testicle with their bad software update bloatware behavior.

The whole frigging industry does it now. It’s not engineering, it’s slap it out, code monkey, horse crap.

No, I don’t know why the seem to leave my right testicle alone. You’ll have to ask them. :)
 
Android devices are obsolete just as quick

Actually, my experience is quite the opposite. I have a Motorola droid turbo that I've had since late 2014 and I'm having no issues whatsoever. It's still fast and responsive.

My iPad Air 2 was also bought in late 2014 and it's horribly clunky.

BTW. I landed on a generation 5, 128gb, wi-fi + cellular. I picked it up on special last week, factory refurbished, for $330.59. No sales tax, no shipping. Couldn't pass that one up.
 
I never said Android was any better than Apple. I’ve definitely said $2000 to stay on the Apple merry go round isn’t worth it.

Perhaps you’re thinking of someone else who plays favorites. I say they all suck my left testicle with their bad software update bloatware behavior.

The whole frigging industry does it now. It’s not engineering, it’s slap it out, code monkey, horse crap.

No, I don’t know why the seem to leave my right testicle alone. You’ll have to ask them. :)

Yes sir!
 
They’re most certainly pre-owned for the most part.

I can call them if you want. I bet they say “new items only”.

In the case of Citi, it would be difficult for them to refuse an extended warranty claim on refurbished devices, as they do not stipulate "new items only" nor exclude refurbished devices in their published extended warranty terms.

Once devices are manufacturer refurbished, they are no longer "used" or "pre-owned." For all anyone knows, the refurbishment process could replace just about every component in the device, and the device may not have been purchased by anyone when new to begin with (open box, demo, etc.) As a consumer, I figure that manufacturer refurbished devices represent *less* risk for defects, because they've been tested during manufacture and again after refurbishment. I wouldn't be surprised if refurbished devices sold with a manufacturer warranty are a better-than-average risk for insurers, though it would be interesting to see the data.
 
I’ve had a lot of refurbs over the years through phone insurance. Seemed like they were never quite the same.
 
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