New Garmin iPad App

Did I read that right? Free 30 day trial and only $10 per month after that?

The reason I ask is I don't do long XC's - not even once a month - so I'd probably buy it once (for one month only) you get the idea.

I'm already on Foreflight for the year.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Did I read that right? Free 30 day trial and only $10 per month after that?

The reason I ask is I don't do long XC's - not even once a month - so I'd probably buy it once (for one month only) you get the idea.

I'm already on Foreflight for the year.
Click to expand...

Yep, you read it right, and I flew using the Garmin Pilot software today for about 1 hr. It's my new iPad app. Whoever designs the user interfaces at garmin knows what they are doing. It took about 10 seconds to figure the entire app out, and that is what makes good cockpit usable software IMHO. Download it and use it on your next XC. After one day on the markety, FF has some catching up to do.
 
bartmc said:
Yep, you read it right, and I flew using the Garmin Pilot software today for about 1 hr. It's my new iPad app. Whoever designs the user interfaces at garmin knows what they are doing. It took about 10 seconds to figure the entire app out, and that is what makes good cockpit usable software IMHO. Download it and use it on your next XC. After one day on the markety, FF has some catching up to do.
Click to expand...

Sweet! I have lusted after the new 796, but couldn't justify the cost.

Now that you've played with the new app, does it essentially turn the iPad into an Apple 696/796?
 
Jay Honeck said:
Sweet! I have lusted after the new 796, but couldn't justify the cost.

Now that you've played with the new app, does it essentially turn the iPad into an Apple 696/796?
Click to expand...

No, not from my one hour of playing with it. It's a very well laid out version of foreflight that you can tell is related to the Aera. Think ForeFlight with the Garmin "feel". Still pretty basic but obviously done by a pro.
 
I had the old version so It's not letting me have a demo..... I'll have to email them and maybe they can reset it. Looks good!
 
The nice thing about Garmin in this case is that it brings the 800-lb gorilla to the table with the FAA AeroNav office. Garmin already has agreements in place to get the approach plates from the FAA for the G1000 systems. If the data truly isn't copyrightable, then Garmin should be able to package that data for the iPad app and anything else they want, once they have it. I foresee an interesting debate about whether data produced with taxpayer money (and that's how the chart data itself is funded as far as I know - Aeronav is trying to recoup production/distribution costs) can then be subject to "licensing".
 
great timing ... I just renewed Foreflight subscription...
 
gkainz said:
great timing ... I just renewed Foreflight subscription...
Click to expand...

Right now I'd say 6 of one, half dozen of the other. My Aera was stolen and I replaced it with an AWM Quadra and then replaced that with an iPad. I should have just replaced it with an Aera to start but this app has Aera look and feel to it so, it makes me feel a little warm and fuzzy.
 
Downloaded and played with it tonight. Love the route slider that automatically updates the data in the widgets you choose to see... Great for visualizing how weather changes along the route, etc.

Also like how it automatically creates a chart bundle for the airports on the route... That's been on my FF request list for a while now.

One issue I see relates to charts. ForeFlight will let you zoom in a lot closer on sectionals and the like. Check out these two comparison screen grabs, for KLUD Decatur Muni. Much easier to make out the frequency and other map details on FF. of course, on either product you can quickly get to a comprehensive airport information page with these details and more.

DELETED IMAGES

Edit: hmm... Have to figure out why tapatalk resized my screenshots... Has anybody else noticed that POA forum-hosting of images through TapaTalk doesn't work?

Try this instead, for now:

https://picasaweb.google.com/104864247395730348780/GarminPilotVsForeFlight
 
Last edited:
I downloaded it last night and played with it for a while. I will try it out some tomorrow on the flight to Sun n Fun. I like the interface. There are a few things about it that don't seem quite as polished as the ForeFlight app. One bug I encountered was when I was customizing all the data boxes on the gauge view. I could set one view how I wanted it, but when I went to the next view, when I changed that one around, it somehow messed up the first view.

Another weird thing I noticed was the radar view. When the sky is clear and the NWS has the radar sensitivity turned up, sometimes you see the ground clutter and other stuff that isn't really precipitation. On the map, it always looks like a halo type circular pattern around the radar site. Well the Garmin App showed all this mess, but the ForeFlight app seemed to filter all that stuff out and only show real precipitation.

I think it's great though to have another player in this game. The competition should lead to better products for us and maybe a shorter time line on app upgrades and new features.
 
I renewed my Basic FF last January, I need to get the Canadian charts for a trip later this year.

Is FF better than Garmin for Canada?
 
For Garmin the price seems reasonable plus with the trial offer could not resist to try it out. But within about 30 mins judged my Flight Guide far superior for my needs.
 
BillTIZ said:
I renewed my Basic FF last January, I need to get the Canadian charts for a trip later this year.

Is FF better than Garmin for Canada?
Click to expand...

I didn't see any Canadian chart options available in the Garmin app.

On the other hand, for VFR flying Foreflight isn't much better. For additional money you can subscribe for enroute charts and terminal procedures for Canada but no sectionals or WACs.
 
Last edited:
A lot of the reviews were terrible. Were they for a previous version?
 
JOhnH said:
A lot of the reviews were terrible. Were they for a previous version?
Click to expand...

Hmm.. There's only 3 reviews for this version, 2 are 5 Star and the other is a 2 star wanting Australian maps.
 
Last edited:
bartmc said:
Hmm.. There's only 3 reviews for this version, 2 are 5 Star and the other is a 2 star wanting Australian maps.
Click to expand...

That is all I saw too when I followed the link on my desktop, even though it says there are 25 ratings (which I couldn't get to). But when I followed the link on my Iphone I found all 25. Including one that said the application forced them to post a review. Some said it crashes a lot. Some said it is clunky. Somebody said the demo doesn't include safe-taxi. Some said don't waste your money.

(edited to clarify: I just reread your post and you said "3 reviews for this version". That was my original question, are the bad reviews all for a previous version and the new version is getting good reviews?).
 
Last edited:
JOhnH said:
That is all I saw too when I followed the link on my desktop, even though it says there are 25 ratings (which I couldn't get to). But when I followed the link on my Iphone I found all 25. Including one that said the application forced them to post a review. Some said it crashes a lot. Some said it is clunky. Somebody said the demo doesn't include safe-taxi. Some said don't waste your money.

(edited to clarify: I just reread your post and you said "3 reviews for this version". That was my original question, are the bad reviews all for a previous version and the new version is getting good reviews?).
Click to expand...

I don't know, the Garmin Pilot My Cast or whatever it was called that preceded this was horrible, so I'm banking that's what they're talking about. This app is very foreflightish but with the garmin "look and feel" If they'll put in their simulated instrument panel and add terrain it would be perfect IMHO. The Android version says it has the simulated panel, I can't find it in the iPad one and the Android version is not compatible with my phone

The Radial menu is kind of neat, just hold down for a second or so on the map and a round menu pop up, you can drag it over "something" like say an airport and the menu then fills up with options for that particular "something".
 
Last edited:
bartmc said:
I don't know, the Garmin Pilot My Cast or whatever it was called that preceded this was horrible, so I'm banking that's what they're talking about. This app is very foreflightish but with the garmin "look and feel" If they'll put in their simulated instrument panel and add terrain it would be perfect IMHO. The Android version says it has the simulated panel, I can't find it in the iPad one and the Android version is not compatible with my phone

The Radial menu is kind of neat, just hold down for a second or so on the map and a round menu pop up, you can drag it over "something" like say an airport and the menu then fills up with options for that particular "something".
Click to expand...


On my ipad, you can only get to the simulated instrument panel if you're using the ipad in portrait mode. Go to the menu in upper right, click on split screen, click on 'panel'...

Tom
 
TomRV4 said:
On my ipad, you can only get to the simulated instrument panel if you're using the ipad in portrait mode. Go to the menu in upper right, click on split screen, click on 'panel'...

Tom
Click to expand...

AHhh, I have mine locked in landscape. maybe that's why I couldn't find it.
 
There's a video out from Av Consumer and AvWeb showing all the features.
 
A Question: I have it loaded on my new iPad 2, and have played with it on the ground. Shortly after noon I'll be flying to Concord, NH to have upgrades done(software) to my 430W, at Craig Avionics. Will I need to buy ad Elf GPS, or DUAL, to get certain actions functional while in the air?

We'll need to hustle out of Concord, hopefully by 3:00 because there's a Presidential TFR beginning at 4:15, though destinations KBXM and KIWI sit outside of the TFR.

HR
 
Lawreston said:
A Question: I have it loaded on my new iPad 2, and have played with it on the ground. Shortly after noon I'll be flying to Concord, NH to have upgrades done(software) to my 430W, at Craig Avionics. Will I need to buy ad Elf GPS, or DUAL, to get certain actions functional while in the air?

We'll need to hustle out of Concord, hopefully by 3:00 because there's a Presidential TFR beginning at 4:15, though destinations KBXM and KIWI sit outside of the TFR.

HR
Click to expand...

Harley, that's all going to depend on airframe masking of GPS signals... it's really airplane and iPad position specific. I had good results with my iPad 1 and now the new iPad without an external GPS, but I do have a Dual XGPS150 I like to use and throw up on the glareshield. Plus, the XGPS150 has a great GPS-like satellite signal app so you can tell exactly which satellites you're receiving, how many, how strong the signals are, how good the position fix is, etc.

mzl.yrbbttqv.480x480-75.jpg
 
I've been playing with it. Think I've found some deal-killer issues for me, at the moment. I like a LOT of the functionality, so I'll report these 'bugs' and see if Garmin's customer service is as responsive as ForeFlight's.

If you want to follow along, create a flight plan in both products for '52F KLUD KXBP KAFW 52F', then get a CSC DUATS briefing for both.

Three issues:

1) Garmin Pilot will refuse to get the briefing because it sees 52F twice in the flight plan; ForeFlight will pull the briefing without complaint. So, pander to Garmin Pilot and remove 52F as the destination, as a workaround to getting your briefing.

2). When the briefings load, expand the Synopsis / 'FA Synopsis and VFR clouds/weather' in each. Garmin Pilot cuts off the content, ending with 'NERN TX PNHDL....' and NOTHING MORE. Compare that to the ForeFlight briefing to see how much data was omitted. It's glaring! I can't even see the FA for my area, N CNTL TX.

3) Take a look at NOTAMS on both. Garmin reports NONE, when FF clearly shows four important runway NOTAMS for KAFW, along with other area NOTAMS that may be needed if you have to divert to a nearby field.

Here are screen shots of the FA briefing from Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight, respectively. Notice how much is missing in the first example!

IMAGE_03CB331C-CA6C-4C04-94D7-40F76B062BD7.PNG


IMAGE_074B4CA9-E93E-4236-9E88-D32C937C7ACD.PNG
 
Last edited:
That ALMOST looks to me like the developers forgot to put a scrolling bar on the FA window - what does the EXPAND ALL button do?
 
TMetzinger said:
That ALMOST looks to me like the developers forgot to put a scrolling bar on the FA window - what does the EXPAND ALL button do?
Click to expand...

It expands each subsection.

The AIRMETS section is likewise chopped off!
 
Last edited:
TangoWhiskey said:
It expands each subsection.
Click to expand...
Ah, but not enough.

Then I guess they really did truncate it instead of giving it a scrolling window. I mean, the app RETREIVED it from CSC or else it wouldn't have gotten the rest of the briefing.

Bottom line is I bet it's a very easy coding fix.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Harley, that's all going to depend on airframe masking of GPS signals... it's really airplane and iPad position specific. I had good results with my iPad 1 and now the new iPad without an external GPS, but I do have a Dual XGPS150 I like to use and throw up on the glareshield. Plus, the XGPS150 has a great GPS-like satellite signal app so you can tell exactly which satellites you're receiving, how many, how strong the signals are, how good the position fix is, etc.

mzl.yrbbttqv.480x480-75.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads-up. The Brunswick KBXM to KCON Concord excursion was interesting. I was in the back seat of my plane, playing with the Garmin Pilot and could see where the plane was tracking(but no magenta line). CFI was left seat and another pilot who's using my plane to get a CFI rating was SIC. We have the same CFI. SIC has thousands of hours in Navy planes, was Navy Instructor, holds up to ATP.

In Concord the 430W was upgraded to the latest software. Jeppesen I'll do at home. THEN it got dicey. We didn't get out of there until just before 5:00 local time; TFR started at 4:15. CFI had to file TWO security flight plans; couldn't plan Direct to Brunswick but had to file for Lewiston, then to Brunswick. ATC was non-stop with much universal advisories. At least two pilots will find themselves at "an appointment." Corporate pilots: "Negative - what TFR?" were a couple comments.

I was supposed to fly us back but the CFI said "This could get pretty intense, suggest we go back same crew we came." Plan was to land at Brunswick, kick me out of the plane, and they would take the plane to my regular hangar at Wiscasset (10nm away), and I'd driv e over to bring them back to their vehicles(winter residence completed at the big Hangar 6 in Brunswick. Half way back, Boston nixed the Lewiston destination, set-up direct to Brunswick. That got completed. Then: CFI was going to have to do a complete Flight Plan to leave Brunswick and fly the 10nm to Wiscasset. Killed the plan; We'll move it today. Other than that, all is goodl

:eek:)
 
Found a couple of issues this morning. In the Trip Planner/Flight Plan list, you can't add airports that have numbers in the identifier. the roads and borders map likes to crash every now and then.
 
bartmc said:
Found a couple of issues this morning. In the Trip Planner/Flight Plan list, you can't add airports that have numbers in the identifier. the roads and borders map likes to crash every now and then.
Click to expand...

I have 52F (home base) in several saved flight plans in GP. Which ones are you trying?
 
TangoWhiskey said:
I have 52F (home base) in several saved flight plans in GP. Which ones are you trying?
Click to expand...

When I tap trip planner, and it asks for a departure/destination it will accept no numeric input. The active flight plan will. but entering a new one from that screen is impossible. I have to edit the flight plan from the map screen.
 
bartmc said:
The Android OS had/has this exact same issue, and there was/is nothing a developer could do to prevent it... it was/is entrenched in the OS.
Click to expand...

Which issue are you referring to? If it is the truncating of reports, it's not an OS issue. Might be a common code base issue (same problem, different platforms), but FF doesn't have the issue, so it isn't the operating system's issue.
 
He might be thinking its a widget built into the GUI creator (which many mistake for the OS when they're tightly coupled) that has the limitation.

Or in human speak, "the text box isn't big enough to hold it all".

Any GUI coder who a) doesn't bounds-check what happens when they feed a widget provided by a third-party large amounts of data, and b) can't code around it when they find it won't hold real-world data ... you don't want to hire to write GUIs. ;)

Any GUI QA team that misses doing a bounds-checks on their developer's code, checking all variable-sized fields with automation, isn't a QA team. ;)

Modern programming took away the steps required to allocate hard resources like RAM, which often leads to bypassing bounds checking right when it's needed more than ever.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Which issue are you referring to? If it is the truncating of reports, it's not an OS issue. Might be a common code base issue (same problem, different platforms), but FF doesn't have the issue, so it isn't the operating system's issue.
Click to expand...

On the android platform, their control for displaying text had/has a bug in it that will do exactly what you are showing happening to your weather briefings. I realize you are talking about iPad, I was just pointing out to the person who criticized Garmin's QA department that one of, if not the largest software corporation in the world let an entire operating system go out the door with the exact same bug.
 
bartmc said:
On the android platform, their control for displaying text had/has a bug in it that will do exactly what you are showing happening to your weather briefings. I realize you are talking about iPad, I was just pointing out to the person who criticized Garmin's QA department that one of, if not the largest software corporation in the world let an entire operating system go out the door with the exact same bug.
Click to expand...

The whole industry makes those excuses these days.

Laptop computers better than the first supercomputers -- and still developers aren't held to any coding standards or using automated bounds-checking tools.

I didn't promise a rose garden. :)

I have very little respect for the industry that has kept me employed for a lifetime. They keep coming up with workarounds for lazier people "upstream".

I've been outspoken about the need for coder licensing for over a decade. It'll never happen, and I'll be gainfully employed for the rest of my life.

The industry has done a masterful job convincing users of their products that bugs are "normal" and automated patch distribution via the Net for buggy software is also "normal".

Masterful marketing, really. Buy our product! The day you plug it in there will be 150 patches it will download and update itself with. Don't be alarmed. This is Good! ;)

I loaded a Win 7 virtual machine the other day with whatever the latest "Service Pack" too. It Activated itself and proceeded to change over 12,000 specific things on the hard disk after it downloaded all the patches available.

I updated over 20 Apps this week on both iPhone and iPad too. Starting to wish Apple had a "just download it and install it, the coders will never get it right anyway" option.

And why do I have to type a security password to receive those updates, Apple? Dumb design.

The "Enterprise" class Linux OS at work had over 6000 package updates released in the last month. It's keeping me busy.

I don't see any execs looking around for a better option or complaining to upstream that they need to get control of their mess. They've hidden the problem by hiring me. Yay for me. Bummer for them. Expensive.

Windows even has "Patch Tuesday".

They've Marketed it all the way down into a catch-phrase. :)

Software is buggy. It isn't getting any better. My job as a system admin is to evaluate and automate patches, more and more.

Developers who are seriously on the ball could put me out of a job. They don't. In fact I wouldn't lose a single night's sleep thinking they'll ever slow their craft to a careful, well-thought-out pace, release slower and less often, with zero bugs. It'll never happen.

Instead, I thank them for their bugs and carry on raking in the paychecks. And modern computing continues through its adolescence without much responsibility. Certainly few consequences.

Imagine if an exec actually picked up a phone and called a software vendor and complained that they release too often with too many bugs. They'd get a pat on the head and told to run along.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top