New ForeFlight W&B giant step backwards

DesertNomad

DesertNomad

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
2,445
Location
Northern NV
Display Name
Display name:
DesertNomad
The New W&B is terrible.

We have defined loads for:

Me
My Wife
4 various named friends

Emergency Bag
Flight Bag
Laptop Bag
Raft
Life Jackets
Aircraft Docs Bag
Maintenance Bag
Food Cooler
O2 Bag
Cover
Sun Shades
Water
Luggage
Oil Case

Sometimes these might be in the aft seats and sometimes in the cargo (or not on board at all). With the new W&B there is only one defined load allowed per station. The old way allowed me to check a box to add it to the aircraft or I could move an item from the cargo to aft seats if needed.

ForeFlight support told me:

"you could create multiple saved loads. For example:
- luggage 25 lbs
- luggage + bike 35 lbs
- luggage + bike + golf clubs 50 lbs
- luggage + bike + golf clubs + equipment, 65 lbs"

With 14 items, there are thousands of possible combinations. How anyone thought a single load per station was a good idea, I’ll never know.

The old way (shown below) allows easy toggle of multiple loads per station. The new way only lets you select one per station which is useless.

WB.jpg
 
you have an actual weight for sun shades? like, for the windows? I think all of mine total about .25 pounds, if that. if I'm ever to the point that my sun shades make a difference in w&b or cg then yeah, I guess I won't be using foreflight.
 
eman1200 said:
you have an actual weight for sun shades? like, for the windows? I think all of mine total about .25 pounds, if that. if I'm ever to the point that my sun shades make a difference in w&b or cg then yeah, I guess I won't be using foreflight.
Click to expand...

Ok, the Sun shades are pretty meaningless, but it does help me remember to pack them for a trip across the country which we do a few times a year. The others though can be significant. Yesterday we had all four seats filled and bags, etc for a departure from an airport at 6400' MSL.
 
I suspect that "updates" are done by people who have never used the product in real life and who have a need to substantiate their job. Rarely, at least lately have any software updates made the product better or easier to use. Lookin at you quickbooks
 
Racerx said:
I suspect that "updates" are done by people who have never used the product in real life and who have a need to substantiate their job. Rarely, at least lately have any software updates made the product better or easier to use. Lookin at you quickbooks
Click to expand...

maybe some truth to that. but also could be made by people who put a single weight per station. while I can understand the OPs concern, I have yet to ever put anything other than a single weight per station into my w&b in garmin pilot. honestly I'd have to check if they even have that functionality.
 
eman1200 said:
maybe some truth to that. but also could be made by people who put a single weight per station. while I can understand the OPs concern, I have yet to ever put anything other than a single weight per station into my w&b in garmin pilot. honestly I'd have to check if they even have that functionality.
Click to expand...

So do you add up everything in your baggage compartment for each flight? If you add a raft and four life jackets, do you re-weigh them each time? How about a case of oil? It's just nice to have all those common things pre-loaded so they can be toggled. I spent a bit of time weighing each common item and now I don't need to weight them again.
 
I admit, I much prefer the old version of which you shared the screenshot. But I've not actually used W&B in Foreflight, as I gave up on trying to create an accurate W&B graph for an aircraft that wasn't one of their standard models.
 
I use GP, and have never chosen to use these advanced features to begin with. Mostly because my particular model isn't properly documented, and I don't want to push this rock uphill.

That said, I sure like what was there - too bad it's gone.

I REALLY wish these companies would have some pilots on board to review the product before they send it to market. I feel like none of the software folks understand what this stuff is really used for.
 
I honest just ball park weights and did the corners of the envelope. The only way I'm ever going to be out of CG is if I put 200lbs of baggage in the back, 400lbs in the back seat and have only 10 gallons of fuel. Any other loading as long as I'm under gross is golden. No need to worry about if a backpack weighs 10lbs or 15lbs. Plus, my model of plane has taken off 2000lbs OVER gross, so I'm not worried about going 5 or 10 over.
 
EdFred said:
I honest just ball park weights and did the corners of the envelope. The only way I'm ever going to be out of CG is if I put 200lbs of baggage in the back, 400lbs in the back seat and have only 10 gallons of fuel. Any other loading as long as I'm under gross is golden. No need to worry about if a backpack weighs 10lbs or 15lbs. Plus, my model of plane has taken off 2000lbs OVER gross, so I'm not worried about going 5 or 10 over.
Click to expand...

I can see that and I am rarely at gross (though I was close yesterday). With our high DAs out here it is not uncommon for me to be taking off at a DA of 8,000' or more and I like to have a simple W&B which ForeFlight has been until now.
 
DesertNomad said:
So do you add up everything in your baggage compartment for each flight? If you add a raft and four life jackets, do you re-weigh them each time? How about a case of oil? It's just nice to have all those common things pre-loaded so they can be toggled. I spent a bit of time weighing each common item and now I don't need to weight them again.
Click to expand...

no, I don't weigh stuff each flight that I already know the weights for. if I know the weight of something and I move it, add/remove that weight from the station. easy peasy. you add/remove the item entry, I add/remove the weight, not much different.
 
DesertNomad said:
I can see that and I am rarely at gross (though I was close yesterday). With our high DAs out here it is not uncommon for me to be taking off at a DA of 8,000' or more and I like to have a simple W&B which ForeFlight has been until now.
Click to expand...

I definitely pay closer attention when launching out of 6Y9 in July. Its only 1380 MSL, but when it's 90F, the end of the grass gets coming quick and those trees start getting bigger faster than you want.
 
I wonder how many small-plane pilots have a scale for weighing stuff in the hangar.

It would make sense, but I don’t have one.
 
NoHeat said:
I wonder how many small-plane pilots have a scale for weighing stuff in the hangar.

It would make sense, but I don’t have one.
Click to expand...

I have one in the hangar. It’s the kind with a handle and a hook hanging from it.
 
NoHeat said:
I wonder how many small-plane pilots have a scale for weighing stuff in the hangar.

It would make sense, but I don’t have one.
Click to expand...

I have one in my flight bag. It's an LCD hanging scale, like for weighing fish, but capable of weighing suitcases. If you go to conventions, they are often giveaways at the exhibition booths. Very handy, light and compact.

They're available on the 'Zon for about $10. Search Suitcase Scales.
 
Making pilots use predefined loads is an FAA letter away from getting sued. That’s ducking stupid. As PIC, I decide what the load is, not some ****ing App programmer.


I use FF w&b on the regular. This is a disaster of an update.
 
After noodling with the new W&B in FF, I agree with many in this thread that for us small piston drivers, the existing way is a better work flow.
 
I have become paranoid whenever FF or ipad updates are available. I appreciate the heads up.

My only suggestion is to rally support for as many users as possible to request it to be fixed ASAP. I am sticking with ver 14.1.1 for now.

The app update says " enhanced W&B "...what is enhanced ?

I have requested several features to be added to FF in the past....waste of time, IMO.
 
Last edited:
The only enhancement I can see is the integration with flight planning. The rest seems to be different for difference sake. Doesn’t seem worse to me, just different.
 
DesertNomad said:
It was easy to predict that being acquired by Boeing would make the product worse.
Click to expand...
I disagree.

There are many enhancements I like and benefit from as a small time AvGas person.

This new W&B was announced a while back. And what I saw then makes me think the new workflow benefits are more for the kerosene crowd.

Maybe we users should request not tossing out the existing system and allow both to exist? Just use a simple settings toggle as needed.

@flyingcheesehead …. You sometimes have some insight into ForeFlight. Should we users be sending comments to team@foreflight.com that include our thoughts and feedback?
 
Please do send them feedback. I already have this morning but I'd hate for the existing W&B system to go away - let us choose as the existing one is much better designed for light aircraft.
 
AggieMike88 said:
After noodling with the new W&B in FF, I agree with many in this thread that for us small piston drivers, the existing way is a better work flow.
Click to expand...
I quickly learned that FF is not for the VFR skychicken driver.
 
It looks like you are using W&B like a checklist so you don't forget to bring the items. A suggestion would be that—for a station (e.g. Baggage Area)—just create one item "Baggage Stuff" and simply update the weight before a flight.
 
Looks like FF is trying hard to capture shares of the corporate aviation world. We tried their "professional" software and it is a disaster. Landing/take off distances off by 1100 feet. Dropped them before they even sent out an invoice.
I don't think they are friendly to the VFR drivers one bit. I thank the owner of the Mooney I rent for installing a dual 10" Dynan and Avidyne system.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top