New Flying Club in South FL! :)

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landairsea

Filing Flight Plan
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Jan 7, 2013
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West Palm Beach
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Display name:
landairsea
Hi all. I just learned of a new flying club in South FL that happens to be based out of my home airport, F45, North Palm Beach County. The club just formed and has a Diamond DA-40 w/ G-1000, Mooney 201, and a newer 172. Hourly charges are similar to market price except billed on tach time instead of hobbs. Should be a great concept and I am very excited to have the club in my backyard!

http://www.palmbeachflightclub.com

https://www.facebook.com/PalmBeachFlightClub
 
Why are you guys so down on this? What's wrong with tach over Hobbs?

When I got my private they used tach too. As I remember you got about 1:11 worth and paid for an hour if you pulled it back in cruise.
 
Yeah i would average about 80% tach vs hobbs staying in the pattern with my Citabria (a lot of full stop, taxi-backs...but still).
 
Sounds like they will provide aircraft you typically don't find in a small club at somewhat reasonable prices.....I don't see any issue
 
Looks like a spin-off or a break-off from Sunquest. All three of those airplanes used to be at Sunquest. I guess that is what "People you know. Aircraft you trust" refers to. Sunquest was charging the same for Hobbs as these guys are for tach so that will offset the buy-in and monthly if you fly a few hours per month. Of course, the real draw, at least for me if I lived in the area, is the availability of aircraft that you just don't find for rent in South Florida. One thing, though. WTF is up with the $50 per month for a "social membership" with no access to aircraft. LOL.
 
Captain said:
Why are you guys so down on this? What's wrong with tach over Hobbs?

When I got my private they used tach too. As I remember you got about 1:11 worth and paid for an hour if you pulled it back in cruise.
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Tach time is where its at. You don't get reamed for taxi time
 
Just looked up the tachs on Spruce:

Cessna: 2566 RPM
Mooney: 2300 RPM
Diamond: ??

I would be curious to know how much you really save (edit - over Hobbs billing - sorry I was not clear on that) in cruise by running at lower RPM since this is a wet rental and you are not paying for the gas. I know that you will save in pattern work and you would save double on a dry rental by running at a lower power setting but not so sure you will save much in a wet rental.
 
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Dean V said:
In cruise flight in the Mooney 2-3%, 1% in the fixed pitch models. Reducing power flying into a headwind will cost you more than you save.
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On the Luscombe, I used to pay by the tach hour until the tach timer broke (now I estimate tach time by fuel burn). When I was doing pattern work, I was almost clock = 1.5 tach but in cruise it was clock = 1.0 tach so I think they are over-simplifying when they say 20% savings on an airplane like the Mooney that is more a cruiser. 10% savings over Hobbs might be closer and, like you say, little to be gained by running a bit lower on RPM.
 
The draw for me is access to nice aircraft and lower than normal rental rate as long as you fly over 3 hours per month. Plus a social club environment.
 
landairsea said:
The draw for me is access to nice aircraft and lower than normal rental rate as long as you fly over 3 hours per month. Plus a social club environment.
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Did you ever rent those AC from Sunquest? I was thinking about getting checked out in the DA40 but never got a round tuit.
 
Dean V said:
This is a commercial aircraft renting business. It has the same expenses as any other aircraft renting business. They are just packaging the costs in a way that the consumer might believe he is getting a better deal. You might realize savings or you might pay more. Its like any other product you purchase.
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This. If they would have charged $80/hour for a plane on hobbs, it isn't like they're going to charge $80/hour for tac. It would be more like $90/hour for tac. And you don't know it because now you can't compare apples to apples with another shop.

I'm actually a little tired of seeing commercial businesses masquerading as a club. If someone is making money on it, if the members are not co-owners of the aircraft, if it doesn't provide insurance then IMHO it isn't a club.
 
bflynn said:


This. If they would have charged $80/hour for a plane on hobbs, it isn't like they're going to charge $80/hour for tac. It would be more like $90/hour for tac. And you don't know it because now you can't compare apples to apples with another shop.

I'm actually a little tired of seeing commercial businesses masquerading as a club. If someone is making money on it, if the members are not co-owners of the aircraft, if it doesn't provide insurance then IMHO it isn't a club.
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Agree with you on most points however, in this case we know the wet rental at the previous FBO for these three aircraft and it was the same for Hobbs as they are charging for tach, in fact they are charging $5 less on the Cessna.
 
They are also providing insurance. But they do require renters insurance for all renters to cover the deductible in case of an incident. I guess it could be considered a quasi-club.
 
landairsea said:
They are also providing insurance. But they do require renters insurance for all renters to cover the deductible in case of an incident. I guess it could be considered a quasi-club.
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There are plenty of outfits that operate that way and call themselves a "flying club". I don't have a problem with that. I have no ownership interest in the club planes I fly either.
 
Figured I'll chime in being a G1000 Diamond owner
There's no such thing as a "tach hour" in G1000 DA40. G1000 counts "Time in Service" - which is basically your flight time. Figure 1 TIS hour = 1.2 - 1.3 Hobbs hours (depending on how long you need to taxi, OATs and time to warm up the engine etc)
So.. $180 for "tach" = $140/hobbs hour in best case scenario - haven't rented DA40 in forever, but sounds about ok with other fees factored in. That's wet I assume?
 
Yes, that is wet. So as long as you fly over 3 hours per month to offset the $75 monthly fee, the numbers really make sense from a financial point of view.
 
Dean V said:
If you fly 3 hours per month, you have exactly the same hobbs rate you can fly any where else less $300 you gave them for nothing.
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Yes exactly. Thats why I mention that it makes sense if you fly at least 3 hours per month.
 
Dean V said:
If you don't understand the difference between being an owner and a renter, you might want to go with commercial rentals, most real clubs want owners not renters.
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How then am I an owner if I am not an owner?
 
Another example of a flying club, Eagle Sport out of the Daytona Beach area. They are an actual 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. Members have a shared ownership in the aircraft. Some of the club members volunteer to wash airplanes, perform maintenance & repairs, etc...

http://www.eaglesport.org/index.php
 
CFI AandP said:
Another example of a flying club, Eagle Sport out of the Daytona Beach area. They are an actual 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. Members have a shared ownership in the aircraft. Some of the club members volunteer to wash airplanes, perform maintenance & repairs, etc...

http://www.eaglesport.org/index.php
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Very nice. I would love to see something like that in Miami-Dade.
 
Hi all,

Just wanted to let you know that there is a new flying club at North Perry Field (KHWO) in Hollywood, FL! Octopus Flying Club has an Archer here at North Perry, and 3 more planes (Warrior, Arrow, Socata TB 200) up in MD at KGAI.

Monthly dues are $95 and the hourly rate (wet) for the Archer is $112 tachtime.

http://octopusflyingclub.com/

Hope this helps anyone looking for a real club down here like I was!
Gus
 
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