Need some help choosing an online ground school

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by vkumar, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. Daniel L

    Daniel L Pre-takeoff checklist

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    OMG

    airplane sales sites. controller.com

    yes i dream of owning expensive high performance planes i can't afford.

    Sent from my cheap plastic brick using Tapatalk
     
  2. Hippike

    Hippike Pre-takeoff checklist

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    +1 on Gleim. I bought their package that came with online ground school, a bunch of books, a flight bag, a plotter, an e6b and a baseball hat.
    I liked doing their online course, and they had audio files that I could listen to while driving. The course was easy to use and from initial sign in you have a year to complete. I, unfortunately, could not, but they offered a discounted extension. Once all the lessons and tests were completed you can print a signed endorsement that you need to take with you to the written test. In addition to Gleim, I did a ton of practice tests on King. I scored 98% ;)

    For months, I had Sporty's online ground school on the iphone. I downloaded the lite app and when I clicked on buy now a window popped up "$199".... OMG, I quickly hit cancel. Thanks to a cyber-bug, the complete app became accessible on my phone but my card was never charged for the $ :D
    I loved watching the videos and doing the written tests but sadly after I updated my phone to the new ios, the app got deleted, and since I never paid for it, I could not get it back in full. Looking back, if I were to start now, and $ wasn't an issue, I may lean toward Sporty's, because I seem to learn more from watching videos than reading books. But that's just me.
    If you want to do this the economic way, you probably could find everything online for free!
     
  3. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    PoA. I already have an airplane and try not to entice myself to look at other women. Ha.

    Gleim has always been a solid package. Dry as a bone, but gets the job done and they were always cheaper than many whenever I’ve used them for anything. They’re not about multimedia or flash and that doesn’t attract the modern crowd as much.

    ASA is also rock solid.

    Kirchener books for anything teaching/CFI related.
     
  4. Sport Pilot

    Sport Pilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hippike,

    Well said. I also use the Gleim techniques and am very happy with them. If you stick to the program you are sure to do well.
     
  5. vkumar

    vkumar Filing Flight Plan

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    Thanks for the response. What Gleim package did you get? How much was it?

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
     
  6. Sinistar

    Sinistar Cleared for Takeoff

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    I've watched some of your videos...very nice!!!

    So I have a question. I know the online courses can send a CFI endorsement for the Knowledge exam. However, if you miss any questions on the knowledge exam there is another CFI signature required later on indicating all of the weak knowledge areas have been reviewed. Do the online courses also have a way to endorse this as well? My CFI just reviewed these with me and signed it off so it didn't matter to me. But I could see someone who's wanting to fully complete ground school before meeting a CFI running into a issue here.
     
  7. exncsurfer

    exncsurfer Pattern Altitude

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    Not really a problem, I did the online sign-off, took the written, and my CFI reviewed the missed stuff and signed off on the review of those for the check ride.
     
  8. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    WTF! What if she has some fine boobies?
     
  9. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude

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    Then it is wo-mandatory
     
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  10. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Ya got that right! :thumbsup:
     
  11. Daniel L

    Daniel L Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Oh spare me.

    Sent from my big plastic brick.
     
  12. write-stuff

    write-stuff En-Route

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    If someone doesn't pass the Knowledge Test, there's no way around it - you have to meet with a CFI for "remedial" coverage of the topics missed. But not a problem for Gold Seal students; we have an extremely high first-time pass rate in excess of 99%.
     
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  13. Sinistar

    Sinistar Cleared for Takeoff

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    I probably wasnt clear, my understanding was that you have to do remedial with a CFI on the listed knowledge areas printed on your official test report....even if you pass? And if that is true, then unless you get a perfect score an actual CFI will always be required to fully complete all requirements related to the knowledge test.

    Also, not trying to knock online written study material cause it worked great for me. I took my written a few months back, got 88% i think. The official test result page listed 3 areas. It seemed that only a CFI could sign that. And i didnt see an additional endoresement or service on King that could resolve that required signature.
     
  14. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Contact them. Many of the online courses have CFIs on staff specifically to go over the missed results if you need it. Usually you don’t need it, because...

    All students are going to be flying with a different CFI who’ll go over the missed items anyway, plus make damn sure the student didn’t forget anything or have any knowledge “holes”, since they’re signing on the dotted line that they’ve completed the prep and are recommending that pilot or student pilot for a checkride. Keep in mind how long a written is “good” for. People forget stuff if they didn’t really learned it and only studied to pass the test, in that amount of time.

    The written is just step one... there’s a lot of stuff that has to happen after the written. The better someone learns it for the written though, the easier for their CFI to go through things quickly and make sure everything is ready inside that skull for the oral.

    And then there’s the transition from PTS to ACS going on and writtens that have knowledge codes that don’t match... unnngh.... yeah. Don’t get me started.
     
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  15. Hippike

    Hippike Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I purchased the Gleim Deluxe Private Pilot Kit w/ Audio review for $199 back in May 2016 from Aircraft Spruce; directly on Gleim it cost more.

    Since there are a million others online and a ton of YT videos (for free), if you are thinking of buying the Gleim, you can buy the one without the audio review, I don't think it worths the extra money. (PM me if you're interested, I might be able to email you the audio files ;D )
     
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  16. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    From FAR 61-65.39:

    CFI who recommends you for the check ride is required to endorse your logbook that they reviewed items you missed on your written test.

    (6) Have an endorsement, if required by this part, in the applicant's logbook or training record that has been signed by an authorized instructor who certifies that the applicant—

    (i) Has received and logged training time within 2 calendar months preceding the month of application in preparation for the practical test;

    (ii) Is prepared for the required practical test; and

    (iii) Has demonstrated satisfactory knowledge of the subject areas in which the applicant was deficient on the airman knowledge test; and
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  17. Stephen Shore

    Stephen Shore Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I did the IR version of the Gold Seal. The IR test prep is called "Gold Method". I was very impressed with the "Gold" prep. I thought they had a unique way of teaching you the subject matter in away that made me very comfortable when it was time to take the test.

    My son is using the Gold Seal for his PPL based on my experience with the Gold Method
     
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  18. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Read Rod Machado’s Private Pilot book. It is the best at preparing you for the written. I used it and I cannot endorse it heavily enough.

    And Rod is a good guy too. Funny and smart and really good for the community
     
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  19. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    CFI doesn’t have to do ground school. Can be done self study. CFI requiring ground school is milking money.
     
  20. Hippike

    Hippike Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Totally agree. Especially at $90 an hour! I'd rather he teaches me how to fly the plane than talk endlessly about subject that I can read at home for free (or watch free YT videos on the matter).
     
  21. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Read up and see what the required sign offs for endorsements say and determine how you’d assure that your signature on those items was legal and accurate.

    The regs are quite specific in this regard. They don’t say “check to see if the student knows it”. In fact the only place the regs say to give a test and not teach, is pre-solo checklist.

    The legal endorsements say, “I have given instruction...” not “I checked to see if you understood your textbook...”

    Good for the student if they’re well prepared, a CFI can make the instruction as fast as they like, but they can’t forego it, not for even the brightest student.

    Meeting the regulatory requirement and more importantly, doing what you said you did in the required wording of the endorsements, isn’t “milking” anything. It’s required.
     
  22. CJ Rader

    CJ Rader Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Has anyone in this forum utilized the ground school from MzeroA/Jason Schappert? I'm already enrolled in the Cessna/King Schools online ground school and it's fine. I would have entertained signing up for MzeroA's curriculum, just to supplement my education and access the 300+ videos he's posted along the way, etc. etc. However, at $125-150 per month, it would have to be pretty dang spectacular for me to add that kind of expense to my already-not-cheap flying budget. The 2 or 3 vids of his I found on YouTube were helpful and informative. But is he $150/month informative? THAT is the question. :eek:
     
  23. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I wouldn't pay that, but I'm a cheap pilot. Too much free or lower cost material out there.
     
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  24. CJ Rader

    CJ Rader Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Well, $150 is an hour of flying in a C-152 and then some. That's why I was saying it better darn well be the greatest thing since Anna Kournikova in a short dress, otherwise... Pass.
     
  25. Hippike

    Hippike Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I believe he says nothing new that you cannot find elsewhere for less expensive (or free).
    Ton of King videos are freely accessible on YT, Gary Wing is another one of my favorite. I watched a bunch of videos of Jason but for some reason I cannot stand his voice and the way he articulates. I always speed up the video playback so it's more bearable to listen to him that way.
    Check out a lot of other YT videos before you spend that kind of money on a ground school.
     
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  26. CJ Rader

    CJ Rader Pre-takeoff checklist

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    His voice does have a certain 'quality' about it, doesn't it.. lol
    Of course, you can learn a ton from the King videos too, but they have their own magoo-like quality to them.
    I appreciate the input. Thank you. Sports cars were my hobby before I set them aside for aviation. Both hobbies are notorious for having many hands out wanting to take your money. They key is to only pay for what truly delivers the most bang for the buck.
     
  27. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It'd better be better than Anna spending a month with you running around nakid! :D
     
  28. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Many, if not most or all, ground instruction books will come with the endorsement for the written test.
     
  29. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    The endorsement for the written is not the endorsement I was suggesting you read. See the other ones. :) There’s a lovely AC full of them.
     
  30. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  31. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Oh I knew which one it was. Can’t really get through the oral without it. Heh.

    I was just hinting for @SkyHog to do his homework. :)

    But I know, I know... most pilots don’t have to carry around a box full of ACs and crap. Haha.

    One of the local DPEs noticed endorsements and tracking of student stuff was so ugly in logbooks he wrote a spiral bound book to track all of it, that he gives to successful CFI candidates as a gift (probably hoping he doesn’t have to stop future checkrides because the logbook isn’t right) including the silly TSA stuff, etc.

    But last I heard it already needs a revision. Someone said that anyway, I haven’t checked it. That’s gotta get expensive when FAA changes something on him, though. Ugh. Probably has to toss all the old ones.
     
  32. LongRoadBob

    LongRoadBob Line Up and Wait

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    Vkumar, I wouldn't presume to give you advice, plus I'm in Norway and it seems it is a little different here but I can share my experience.

    I have always wanted to fly, and contacted a local club, and as you did, took a discovery flight and loved it. Grew up with a pilot dad so it was like "coming home" and as soon as we took off I had a huge smile and felt really good.

    So I asked how I go forward with this. They referred me to a ground school at the same airport. I paid them for a ground school course and they handed me a whole bunch of books for each subject in the exam.

    They explained that I was to read the books, and then take their quizzes online. Also online I could send in questions to actual instructors and get answers.

    I will say, I am VERY glad for the books. They go into more detail in many ways than the FAA knowledge books, etc. and I liked having books (in my case in technical Norwegian, I am not a native speaker of it so that was a challenge) because I like highlighting, making notes in the margins, as well as drawings. I also kept a notebook divided up into the subjects and made my own notes, with index, and had some pages set aside to put in all formulas, and abbreviations, it helped me learn.

    So in my case my online course was a bunch of simulated exam questions, with some power point summaries but the real knowledge came from the books. The quizzes were tricky, and in retrospect I'm glad for that, as they taught me how tricky the real exam questions are. Forgetting that it was in Norwegian, and it isn't my mother tongue, actual Norwegian students ALSO complained that they were very sly and tricky in their questions.
    Not sure how it is in the states, but most exam and quiz questions had two answers you could pretty much rule out and two that were often bit correct, but you had to pick the "most correct".

    The main point, I learned from the quizzes how to read questions with a critical mind, double and triple checking what they were after for an answer or what was best. It seemed unfair, that they weren't testing my knowledge but more if o could be tricked. But I got the hang of it.

    ALSO, and this was BIG, the school (and rules) required a certain minimum of classroom time. Not sure if this is the same in the US, but even if not required I would definitely do it that way again. They offered either a two week course, or a weekend "intensive" course, starting Friday, sat, and sun. I took that course. They had a fairly easy quiz after that to check I that the students were ready to take the exam and we all passed that. They then put our names in for taking the quiz.

    The exam was five hours long, nine subjects, 20 questions each. I passed six of the nine, with good results. The other three..bad results and failed three. Took them again and got very good results. Passed.

    I noticed when I took the three I failed again when I met up at the hotel where they hold the class, all of my "intensive course classmates" also had to take one, two, or three again. The common factor, absolutely ALL had to take meteorology again.

    To sum up, we all learn differently and also I'm in Norway, etc. but figure out how you best learn. Ask your CFI to lay out the options he feels would be good, but most of all, know HOW you learn. Me, I need books where I can write in the margins, highlight (even if many pages I highlighted so much it was all highlighted) and these books can take some time to digest. It's a lot like when I learned electronics. Technical textbooks are so jam packed with concepts, ideas, and information that one can read a small paragraph over and over before getting it.
    And then forget it later, and have to freshen up the Idea again.

    I don't know if this helps, but make a best guess what works for you. Factor in how you best learn, and talk to your CFI and maybe other students, hear how they do it. And of course the other experienced folk here. Of course, for many here they passed many years ago and y have to judge for yourself.

    I wish you good luck! I loved learning about this. Now that I passed my exam, I'm starting at the beginning again with the theory because now that I passed it is just cost reading. I can actually take stuff better in reading it over again. No pressure.
     
  33. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Ok. I give. I reread this thread and the posts quite a few times and I still don’t know what endorsement you are referring to if not the endorsement to take the test.
     
  34. HAPPYDAN

    HAPPYDAN Pre-Flight

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    I used King Schools 3 years ago and passed 95%. Earlier this year I used Sportys and passed 93%. King Schools course is more fun, John's a riot, but it basically teaches the test. Sportys is more comprehensive, not just teaching the test but also providing useful, interesting lessons regarding actual flying techniques. Either way, the online sectional charts are difficult to use, so an FAA Chart Supplement helps with either one.
     
  35. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    See section 8, number 5. Note the word “encouraged” for the items 1-4.

    https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-65G.pdf

    Logically the reverse may also be true... what might be “discouraged”? But that doesn’t matter other than just as a note that there’s interesting wording in number 5 and an alternative may receive more scrutiny for the applicant and the instructor.

    How would you recommend the instructor “certify” as offered in number 5? I know how I’d do that, I’m interested in what you’d do.

    You’re “certifying” someone who says they studied... what steps would you take and how would you document it?
     
  36. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Right, but what’s I was saying is that there are some train yourself programs that will come with the endorsement upon completion. You said “that’s not the endorsement I’m referring to.”

    Seems to me, I could theoretically do the entire ground and get my written test done before I’ve ever even flown with a CFI. So what ground instruction would the CFI then be obligated to perform?
     
  37. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Ahhh right. The original discussion was about self study without the other endorsement.

    After that, the final endorsement is in-part saying the applicant is prepped for the oral... and there’s only one way to know for sure on that...

    And of course the endorsement that any items missed on the written have been remediated. Most people don’t get 100%.
     
  38. Jim_CAK

    Jim_CAK Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That was my experience 18 years ago. I did Kings for the private and Sportys for the IFR rating. I described Kings as “pass the written” test prep and Sporty’s as “how to fly IFR”. I got a 97% on both tests. I did use the Gliem book for IFR study as well. Those courses may have changed over the years. I liked Sportys format better. I still watch the DVD on approaches every so often as a refresher.
     
  39. flannelw

    flannelw Filing Flight Plan

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    I have taken face-to-face ground schools as well as used Gleim, King, and Sheppard Air for knowledge test prep. The face-to-face is the best option, but sometimes not a possibility of course. If you want to just pass the test, I would highly recommend Sheppard Air. As long as you follow their instructions on how to study, you will pass with a high score. I used them for my FOI, AGI, and IGI. Missed only one on the FOI and AGI and got a 100% on the IGI. If you actually want to learn something, go with King. Some of their lessons were filmed years ago, but the information is still valid. Gleim, it's okay but not my favorite. Just a personal preference.
     
  40. coloradobluesky

    coloradobluesky En-Route

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    All you really need is a good book like the Jeppesen Book and a test study guide so you can take practice tests until you start passing with room to spare. Those expensive courses are fun and ok, but not necessary. Save the money for flight time.