Need a Flying partner to smash through hours

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FlyingColo

Filing Flight Plan
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May 11, 2013
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FlyingColo
Hey guys... I am looking to find someone who is looking to basically take some time (like 3 weeks to a month) and just smash through a bunch of hours flying. I am trying to workup my hours to complete my CPL. I haven't finished my IFR checkride but I have gotten through the written. I don't really care where in the US it happens, I personally just want a safe plane and another good pilot in the same boat as me and together we can hopefully get out 75-100 hours together and do it in a cheaper way.
 
Welcome to POA,

I'm in a similar situation as you, I'm based out of Long Island and I manage a small fleet. I plan on doing quite a lot of flying in the near future, we might be able to arrange something.

Where are you currently based? What types of aircraft do you normally fly?
 
OP, based on your user name, are you in Colorado?
 
Engine said:
Welcome to POA,

I'm in a similar situation as you, I'm based out of Long Island and I manage a small fleet. I plan on doing quite a lot of flying in the near future, we might be able to arrange something.

Where are you currently based? What types of aircraft do you normally fly?
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My main concern is finding someone who has some common sense and that the aircraft is well maintained...I am fine to go somewhere for a month if the other person is really planning to dedicate full-time for those weeks to do it (weather permitting) I have been flying 172s
 
that's what I was wondering, too. How does flying with a partner have anything to do with building cross country time for the purpose of a certificate ?
 
Welcome to PoA. It sounds like you need a CFI doing xc time building for his/her ATP to help you out.
 
DavidWhite said:
Welcome to PoA. It sounds like you need a CFI doing xc time building for his/her ATP to help you out.
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Not necessarily. I just need to get another 75-100 hours to get me closer to the 250 I need for my CPL. Only 100 of that needs to be PIC and 50 XC PIC.
 
FlyingColo said:
Not necessarily. I just need to get another 75-100 hours to get me closer to the 250 I need for my CPL. Only 100 of that needs to be PIC and 50 XC PIC.
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How are you planning on logging time if you're not logging PIC and the airplane does not require a SIC?
 
jesse said:
How are you planning on logging time if you're not logging PIC and the airplane does not require a SIC?
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That's why I referred him to the General Counsel letter...the situation is trickier than it looks.

Bob Gardner
 
Yep, you should fly that 100 hours in your own backyard instead of going somewhere else to fly 200 hours.
 
Pay attention people.
At no point did he say he needed to log all the time as PIC or XC. He simply needs time towards the 250 hours for commercial pilot. He can, and is probably intending to, go the safety pilot route towards logging time. Yes, only some of that will count as XC and it may or may not count as PIC. But all of it will count towards the 250 hours.

I don't think the safety pilot approach is the best method of gaining large amounts of flight time, but it is valid. Seriously guys, you know this. Why are you giving this guy a hard time?
 
\__[Ô]__/;1162044 said:
Why are you giving this guy a hard time?
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Are you new here??

/duck

On a serious note, agreed-upon PIC safety pilot while the sole manipulator is under the hood is fine for building PIC time, but as stated the PIC safety pilot can't log XC. As long as that's ok, you're golden.
 
JHW said:
s/he would have to be under the hood from takeoff roll to landing rollout for it to count as sic cross country time
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I was initially thinking of switching out the hood every 6 minutes or something like that.
 
GCA319 said:
Safety pilots cannot log XC time.
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Of course they can.

FlyingColo, I'm based at KFRG. I manage a fleet of PA-28's which are in my opinion well maintained - 50 hr, 100 hr, and all other maintenance done on time and without skimping on the monies. They're at $119/hr and $128/hr wet for the Warrior/Archer respectively.

As for safe I consider myself to be. I don't really know how I can prove that other than to say that I've been involved with aviation for over a decade now and am surrounded by experienced pilots who have essentially brought me up.

Again I don't know how feasible this is for you but if you're interested pm me.
 
Simply have both pilots perform a takeoff at the origin and a landing at the destination.
 
Engine said:
Of course they can.
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Reread the FAA's opinion on that issue. Theirs is the only opinion that counts.

Safety pilot can log time while flying pilot is under the hood, but not x-c time. They can switch roles on the return and end up with same total time and same, but lesser, x-c time.

I have a student wanting to build some time in her C-150 this summer. Free airplane, just split gas. Located in Minneapolis area.
 
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LDJones said:
Reread the FAA's opinion on that issue. There's is the only opinion that counts.

Safety pilot can log time while flying pilot is under the hood, but not x-c time. They can switch roles on the return and end up with same total time and same, but lesser, x-c time.

I have a student wanting to build some time in her C-150 this summer. Free airplane, just split gas. Located in Minneapolis area.
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This. Read the FAA letter. This is really simple. The guy in the left seat and using the hood gets the full time PIC and the xc time. The guy in the right seat gets PIC time but no xc time if acting as safety while the lefty is wearing hood and if righty is the agreed-upon "legal" PIC for those portions.

ps. seat side obviously making no difference; it is the function that makes the difference.
 
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Agreed upon PIC Pilot A takes off from Airport W, and turns the controls over to hooded pilot B at 100' AGL.

Pilot B flies under the hood to Airport X 5 miles away. At 100' AGL pilot B removes hood and does a touch and go at Airport X, putting the hood back on at 100' AGL. Pilot B continues flying to Airport Y somewhere that's both 50+ nm from airport W and X.

At 100' AGL at airport Y where Pilot A takes the controls and does a touch and go, and at 100' turns the controls back over to pilot B. Pilot B flies the airplane to Airport Z which is 5 miles away from Airport Y, but still 50+ away from W and X.

Pilot A takes contols at 100' AGL, performs a touch and go at Airport Z, and controls back to Pilot B at 100' AGL. Pilot B flies back to Airport X where Pilot A takes over at 100' AGL, and performs the touch and go, and Pilot B goes back under the hood at 100' AGL and flies back to airport W, pulls the hood at 100' AGL and lands completing the flight.

So, we have
Airport W: Pilot A - takeoff
Airport X: Pilot B - landing/takeoff
Airport Y: Pilot A - landing/takeoff
Airport Z: Pilot B - landing/takeoff
Airport X: Pilot A - landing/takeoff
Airport W: Pilot B - landing

Pilot A would get to log XC for all but the duration from X to W at the end of the flight. He would get to log PIC for all the time except for the touch n go time the first time at X, the touch and go time Z, and the landing at W

Pilot B would get to log XC for all but the duration from W to X at the beginning of the flight, and PIC time for the flight except for the takeoff time at W, the touch n go time at Y, and the touch n go time the second time at X.

So, if the flight was 3.0 total, they would both log 2.9 XC and PIC.
 
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EdFred said:
Agreed upon PIC Pilot A takes off from Airport W, and turns the controls over to hooded pilot B at 100' AGL.

Pilot B flies under the hood to Airport X 5 miles away. At 100' AGL pilot B removes hood and does a touch and go at Airport X, putting the hood back on at 100' AGL. Pilot B continues flying to Airport Y somewhere that's both 50+ nm from airport W and X.

At 100' AGL at airport Y where Pilot A takes the controls and does a touch and go, and at 100' turns the controls back over to pilot B. Pilot B flies the airplane to Airport Z which is 5 miles away from Airport Y, but still 50+ away from W and X.

Pilot A takes contols at 100' AGL, performs a touch and go at Airport Z, and controls back to Pilot B at 100' AGL. Pilot B flies back to Airport X where Pilot A takes over at 100' AGL, and performs the touch and go, and Pilot B goes back under the hood at 100' AGL and flies back to airport W, pulls the hood at 100' AGL and lands completing the flight.

So, we have
Airport W: Pilot A - takeoff
Airport X: Pilot B - landing/takeoff
Airport Y: Pilot A - landing/takeoff
Airport Z: Pilot B - landing/takeoff
Airport X: Pilot A - landing/takeoff
Airport W: Pilot B - landing

Pilot A would get to log XC for all but the duration from X to W at the end of the flight. He would get to log PIC for all the time except for the touch n go time the first time at X, the touch and go time Z, and the landing at W

Pilot B would get to log XC for all but the duration from W to X at the beginning of the flight, and PIC time for the flight except for the takeoff time at W, the touch n go time at Y, and the touch n go time the second time at X.

So, if the flight was 3.0 total, they would both log 2.9 XC and PIC.
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wow what a stretch. that's hardly the same flight. how about if pilot A does T&G's on tuesday and then flies with pilot B on friday logging XC time?

why not just whip out a pen and make up some flights in your logbook if that's your game ?

the purpose of having XC time is to gain experience executing a flight from here to there. plan it, fly it, modify it along the way. That's supposed to be the job of one person for the experience to me meaningful in this case
 
Nothing directed or specific to the OP, but this safety pilot stuff just never made any sense to me. Sitting there looking out the window for traffic is something any non-rated passenger could do. Logging time for it, I just don't understand.

If someone is being honest with themselves they really haven't gained any flying experience and might as well just put as much time in the log book as they want sitting on the ground. Just a .02.
 
JHW said:
wow what a stretch. that's hardly the same flight. how about if pilot A does T&G's on tuesday and then flies with pilot B on friday logging XC time?

why not just whip out a pen and make up some flights in your logbook if that's your game ?

the purpose of having XC time is to gain experience executing a flight from here to there. plan it, fly it, modify it along the way. That's supposed to be the job of one person for the experience to me meaningful in this case
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No more of a stretch than the FAA saying you can reposition in order to log XC time. Yes, you can fly 24 miles west, call that the "start" of your XC, and fly 51 miles east, overflying your original departure, and call it XC time, all the while never being more than 30 from your home drome.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Nothing directed or specific to the OP, but this safety pilot stuff just never made any sense to me. Sitting there looking out the window for traffic is something any non-rated passenger could do. Logging time for it, I just don't understand.

If someone is being honest with themselves they really haven't gained any flying experience and might as well just put as much time in the log book as they want sitting on the ground. Just a .02.
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I somewhat agree. I don't recall logging PIC time as a safety pilot. But if the FAA is going to allow it, I don't see why people who need the PIC time shouldn't take advantage of it.
 
EdFred said:
Agreed upon PIC Pilot A takes off from Airport W, and turns the controls over to hooded pilot B at 100' AGL.

Pilot B flies under the hood to Airport X 5 miles away. At 100' AGL pilot B removes hood and does a touch and go at Airport X, putting the hood back on at 100' AGL. Pilot B continues flying to Airport Y somewhere that's both 50+ nm from airport W and X.

(snip etc.)
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Yeah thought of this myself though actually there is no point to go to another airport Just each pilot do T&G at departure and destination airports. Read the FAA letter. This is counter to the intention of the requirement and really serves little purpose, IMO. The reason folks do the safety pilot PIC thing is to get to 250 hours PIC as cheaply as possible and they do not need all that to be xc by a long shot.
 
EdFred said:
I somewhat agree. I don't recall logging PIC time as a safety pilot. But if the FAA is going to allow it, I don't see why people who need the PIC time shouldn't take advantage of it.
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I look at it like this. Would you rather have a professional pilot flying you and your family with 15000 hours of safety pilot time or 500 hours of real flying?
 
Man… this got so heated between you guys. I am not going to lie, I am doing this safety pilot route to build hours cheaper and because 6 hours a day alone flying for the sake of "flying" is boring. I am hoping to find someone or multiple people who we can pair up and fly non-stop for a month and get some hours done. At the end of the day for the CPL it is just 250hours. I could go pay for a plane and flight instructor and do it that way, but flying is expensive so if I can save some $$ I don't think it is like I am losing some great experience of being alone. So… if you know if anyone on the west coast or towards that area like CO west that would fit this need please let me know… for right now I am just calling flight schools to see if they have someone in the same position as me.
 
FlyingColo said:
Man… this got so heated between you guys. I am not going to lie, I am doing this safety pilot route to build hours cheaper and because 6 hours a day alone flying for the sake of "flying" is boring. I am hoping to find someone or multiple people who we can pair up and fly non-stop for a month and get some hours done. At the end of the day for the CPL it is just 250hours. I could go pay for a plane and flight instructor and do it that way, but flying is expensive so if I can save some $$ I don't think it is like I am losing some great experience of being alone. So… if you know if anyone on the west coast or towards that area like CO west that would fit this need please let me know… for right now I am just calling flight schools to see if they have someone in the same position as me.
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I'd pick ya up on my way to Alaska, but I kinda want to see outside for that trip. :lol:
 
Rebecca B. MacPherson said:
Section 61.65(d) contemplates that only the pilot conducting the entire flight, including takeoff, landing, and en route flight, as a required flight crewmember may log cross-country flight time. Because a safety pilot does not conduct the entire flight, a person acting as a safety pilot for a portion of the flight may not log any cross-country flight time for the flight.
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This opinion is bunk IMO. There is no requirement for the person to perform the takeoff, enroute, and landing. They made that up (not to mention cited the wrong regulation) and therefore the argument suffers from a false premise fallacy. Take the safety pilot part out of it and ask, what if one pilot takes off and the other lands? Nobody can log XC in that case? Ridiculous.

The flight has to include a landing more than 50 miles away from the departure point. A flight doesn't cease to be a flight just because you discontinued being a required crewmember for a portion of that flight.

14 CFR 61.1(b) said:
(4) Cross-country time means—
...
(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under § 61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
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tmyers said:
You are going to AK, I am way jealous. Are you flying the AlCan?
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I say I' m going every summer. But after having done one 40+ hr XC, alone, I usually scrap the plan to go about June 1.
 
I definitely can't do the trip this Summer, but may be able to do so next summer, and I promise to leave my Brutus hat at home.
 
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