Nearly one in five high school boys have received a medical diagnosis for ADHD

How many potential pilots - those who have expressed an interest - are we talking about? We see a few threads here, but I don't get the feeling we have some huge number of people who want to be pilots who are prevented.
 
That's because they diagnose "everyone" with that nowadays.
 
jnmeade said:
How many potential pilots - those who have expressed an interest - are we talking about? We see a few threads here, but I don't get the feeling we have some huge number of people who want to be pilots who are prevented.
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Can we really afford to eliminate 20% right off the top?

Are there so many people clamoring to be pilots that it doesn't matter?
 
jnmeade said:
How many potential pilots - those who have expressed an interest - are we talking about? We see a few threads here, but I don't get the feeling we have some huge number of people who want to be pilots who are prevented.
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It seems like there is an ADHD thread with some poor soul looking for advice every other day or so. I am not an expert, but I find it hard to believe that ADHD affects 20% of the male population. That is a big number.
 
What do you suppose would happen to the rate if Medicaid didn't cover the 'treatments'?

It gets better, now Obamacare expands the rolls of those eligible to get aid by millions. And better yet, in some cases courts are determining that ADHD qualifies as a 'disability' thus qualifying for SSI payments to the kid/parents.

Is it a scam? Does a fat baby fart?

http://healthyliving.msn.com/diseas...g-use-rising-for-kids-on-medicaid-study-finds
 
docmirror said:
What do you suppose would happen to the rate if Medicaid didn't cover the 'treatments'?

It gets better, now Obamacare expands the rolls of those eligible to get aid by millions. And better yet, in some cases courts are determining that ADHD qualifies as a 'disability' thus qualifying for SSI payments to the kid/parents.

Is it a scam? Does a fat baby fart?

http://healthyliving.msn.com/diseas...g-use-rising-for-kids-on-medicaid-study-finds
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Exactly. I've heard the "need to get a diagnosis so we can get our benefits" statement numerous times in the last few years. Parents are doing their children a great disservice.
 
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I realize there are many that suffer from the affects of ADHD, but I also see many that use the condition as a crutch to explain bad or lacking parenting skills. There's a reason my child can't behave or acts out. With the ADHD brand these children get special assistance with tests and homework throughout high school and even into college. On the flip side there are those that truly have this condition and never get diagnosed. In time they become high functioning and people do not notice the behavior triggers.
The problem with the FAA stance is that they rely so much on the Dr's diagnosis from childhood when there needs to be a method of testing adults. I don't know what that would be and I don't know how much it would cost but a person that has grown out of ADHD (meaning they no longer need meds to cope) probably never had it in the first place and shouldn't be punished for it later in life.

I have four step children. Two have been diagnosed with ADHD. One definitely has it, by the end of the day as his meds wear off he can pace a hole in the carpet. He is 24 and does not have a Drivers License. He may never have a Drivers License in fact. His younger brother on the other hand takes the meds but from experience I can tell you 99.9% of his issues are behavioral and the fact that he has never been disciplined in a way that he will remember. Younger brother has a lifelong brand that he will never shake. The worst part is that he really believes he has an excuse for the way he acts.

My opinion through observation, but WTH do I know, I am an A type Engineer, not a Dr. Enlighten me if you have anything to add.
 
When my son was in third grade, the primary school teacher had us in for the usual conference each year and she had a form filled out and said my son had qualified in the ADHD category. I looked at the form, and it was from some pharma company, they prolly hand them out to school teachers by the truckload.

So, I asked to see it, and once I had it in my hands, I tore it into about 100 pieces and asked her if she had any more written documentation about a medical diagnosis of my kid. She said no, and then I went straight from there to the principal and I told him that under no terms was ANYONE at the school to ever refer to my kid with any medical diagnosis unless it concerned a scraped knee, or the sniffles(cold). He didn't even know there was a ADHD form floating around his school.
 
docmirror said:
When my son was in third grade, the primary school teacher had us in for the usual conference each year and she had a form filled out and said my son had qualified in the ADHD category. I looked at the form, and it was from some pharma company, they prolly hand them out to school teachers by the truckload.

So, I asked to see it, and once I had it in my hands, I tore it into about 100 pieces and asked her if she had any more written documentation about a medical diagnosis of my kid. She said no, and then I went straight from there to the principal and I told him that under no terms was ANYONE at the school to ever refer to my kid with any medical diagnosis unless it concerned a scraped knee, or the sniffles(cold). He didn't even know there was a ADHD form floating around his school.
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That's pretty scary. I'm glad you made a stand.
 
jnmeade said:
How many potential pilots - those who have expressed an interest - are we talking about? We see a few threads here, but I don't get the feeling we have some huge number of people who want to be pilots who are prevented.
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From the data given for high school boys, it would appear that 20% of the young males who aspire to be pilots will be either prevented from doing so, or forced to jump through hoops to do it. That seems pretty significant to me.
 
Yeah, to keep this pilot oriented, I think(but have no data) that the type of personality that would be identified as ADHD are also the personality traits that would aspire to being a pilot. either military or civ. So, the armed forces are going to face the same thing as the civ pilot population. I don't think you can get a med waiver right now in the air farce if you have ADHD diagnosis history.
 
John221us said:
It seems like there is an ADHD thread with some poor soul looking for advice every other day or so. I am not an expert, but I find it hard to believe that ADHD affects 20% of the male population. That is a big number.
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The first 'Rx drug abuse epidemic' I ever became aware of was for amphetamine diet pills in the 60s. Life magazine did a colorful piece on diet clinics and the ease with which any number of amphetamine formulations were prescribed.

ADHD is providing Rx cover for the latest amphetamine-based abuse epidemic. The issue is not aviation related, it's not disability related, it's not Obamacare related, it is amphetamine drug abuse, its addicts and the institutions that profit from it.

And everyone involved in this epidemic has plausible deniability.
 
One thing I can't figure out is this: What is the rationale for prescribing stimulants for someone who is hyperactive?
 
The explanation I have received is that it give the hyperactive part of the brain something to do calming the overall process.

I am sure that is an over simplification but maybe Dr. Bruce or Lynn can elaborate.
 
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The real problem behind all the over-diagnosing is (surprise, surprise) the government. You want to see these shenanigans stop? That's easy:

1. Stop subsidizing school districts for diagnosing and drugging these kids. This is not a situation in which schools actually incur additional instructional costs. Kids diagnosed with ADHD go to the same classes and are taught by the same teachers. The only difference is that they may be allowed additional time to take tests, may be allowed to take breaks and walk around in the middle of tests, etc.

2. Stop making these kids eligible for SSI. First of all, they're kids. They don't work, anyway. What economic hardship is their disability causing them? Secondly, the only additional costs are the medications, which usually are paid for by insurance or Medicaid. So unless the parents can prove significant additional costs as a result of the "condition," don't give them any money.

I have quite a bit of experience with school districts pushing parents to allow their kids to be diagnosed so they can get the subsidies, and I've come across some poor parents who seek the diagnoses because the SSI income would supplement whatever other income they receive. Stop those subsidies, and watch the number of cases take a tumble.

The attached is a screen shot of a Google search I just did on the phrase "get disability for adhd." Note the number of law firms advertising on the page, and the number of links to questions posted by people who want to do this or forums explaining how to do it. Getting a paycheck for for a dubious diagnosis of ADHD (or facilitating that process) has become a cottage industry.

-Rich
 

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Palmpilot said:
One thing I can't figure out is this: What is the rationale for prescribing stimulants for someone who is hyperactive?
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Because the various govts will pay for the pills of course. I thought this was widely understood.
 
Palmpilot said:
One thing I can't figure out is this: What is the rationale for prescribing stimulants for someone who is hyperactive?
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It has something to do with stimulating part of the brain called the "Reticular Activating System," or at least that's what they were saying when I took my neuropsych courses back in the 1980's.

-Rich
 
Many of our problems with our children are due to lack of parenting/discipline by TWO parents, lack of exercise, poor diet, drugs taken by parents during conception and looking for a quick easy fix. Try teaching or observing the "integrated" classrooms of today. You could not pay me enough.
 
RV10flyer said:
Many of our problems with our children are due to lack of parenting/discipline by TWO parents, lack of exercise, poor diet, drugs taken by parents during conception and looking for a quick easy fix. Try teaching or observing the "integrated" classrooms of today. You could not pay me enough.
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What exactly do you mean by "integrated"?
 
Teaching from very low to very high performing students all in one classroom. The high performing children get bored and are sometimes ask to help teach the lower performing ones. It is only getting worse with budget cuts and the problems noted above. I have a lot of respect for today's educators.
 
RV10flyer said:
Teaching from very low to very high performing students all in one classroom. The high performing children get bored and are sometimes ask to help teach the lower performing ones. It is only getting worse with budget cuts and the problems noted above. I have a lot of respect for today's educators.
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OK, just making sure we weren't talking about something else. But in my experiences, I've been in many classes and had many teachers that ran on the idea that if you're with underachievers, you can learn by teaching them. Plus, they claimed that it was just like the real world where you're with a blend of people, from dumb to brilliant. Whole load of BS. Teaching someone else doesn't help you if you are already fluent in it, and being with lower performers just holds you back. Screw experiencing the real world.
 
RV10flyer said:
Teaching from very low to very high performing students all in one classroom. The high performing children get bored and are sometimes ask to help teach the lower performing ones. It is only getting worse with budget cuts and the problems noted above. I have a lot of respect for today's educators.
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My daughter was way ahead of the rest of the class. I spoke to the principal to skip her past 3rd grade. There was a lot of resistance. I asked him what was the problem, she tests way ahead of the program, and I want her to be challenged. I asked him point blank if that would affect his per-student state income. He never would give me a straight answer. I told him I was going to the school board next, and he finally relented.

So, she gets into 4th, aces that and then we get to another school district and she wants to skip 6th. More fighting, more emails, more BS from the district. I have her tested and she's testing at HS level reading and math. We finally get her past 6th and into 7th grade. She aces that, and graduates out of HS in 11th grade, and starts college at 15.

The education system is broken at the admin level. The teachers often do ok, but the admins who don't spend a minute in the classroom are where much of the problem lie.
 
docmirror said:
My daughter was way ahead of the rest of the class. I spoke to the principal to skip her past 3rd grade. There was a lot of resistance. I asked him what was the problem, she tests way ahead of the program, and I want her to be challenged. I asked him point blank if that would affect his per-student state income. He never would give me a straight answer. I told him I was going to the school board next, and he finally relented.

So, she gets into 4th, aces that and then we get to another school district and she wants to skip 6th. More fighting, more emails, more BS from the district. I have her tested and she's testing at HS level reading and math. We finally get her past 6th and into 7th grade. She aces that, and graduates out of HS in 11th grade, and starts college at 15.

The education system is broken at the admin level. The teachers often do ok, but the admins who don't spend a minute in the classroom are where much of the problem lie.
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Wow... I thought I was young graduating hs @ 16... How has/did your daughter coped/cope with college at that age? By the way, I met equal resistance while skipping to 8th grade, but I'm glad I pushed through it all.
 
I know first hand where you are coming from. There are many things that we as parents can do to challenge our children outside of school too. The education field can be very challenging whether government ran or private. Best of luck to you and your daughter.
 
based on personal experience, sample size of one. someone i know. mom didn't do drugs during pregnancy. both parents in the home. good parents. good home life etc etc. kid gets good food, lots of excercise, and can't concentrate. pills are the difference between F's and C's. he takes them 5 days a week 9 months a year. All i know is one size does not fit all. I also know that I was a hyper kid and i'm glad i didn't get put on the pills to "help"
 
I think girls tend to be a couple of years more mature than boys just from my personal experience growing up and having our own girl and boy now.
 
tonycondon said:
based on personal experience, sample size of one. someone i know. mom didn't do drugs during pregnancy. both parents in the home. good parents. good home life etc etc. kid gets good food, lots of excercise, and can't concentrate. pills are the difference between F's and C's. he takes them 5 days a week 9 months a year. All i know is one size does not fit all. I also know that I was a hyper kid and i'm glad i didn't get put on the pills to "help"
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There are definitely some out there that need the help. I just wonder how much net help they get when the system is overloaded by those that might not need it.
 
ebykowsky said:
Wow... I thought I was young graduating hs @ 16... How has/did your daughter coped/cope with college at that age? By the way, I met equal resistance while skipping to 8th grade, but I'm glad I pushed through it all.
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Well, it wasn't that tough. We discussed some things, she went to the senior prom in 11th grade, and she handled it all pretty well. I warned her not to get too far ahead, but I can't really slow her down.

She's in a ChemEng program at a very well regarded university, and is doing fine. She's also an NCAA scholarship gymnast, so kind of busy. She is on a 5 year program to grad with the ChemEng and physics degrees.

Some people don't fit well in public classrooms, but I'm not recommending the school change it's curriculum, just allow those who can take it at a faster pace to advance as they normally would.
 
docmirror said:
Well, it wasn't that tough. We discussed some things, she went to the senior prom in 11th grade, and she handled it all pretty well. I warned her not to get too far ahead, but I can't really slow her down.

She's in a ChemEng program at a very well regarded university, and is doing fine. She's also an NCAA scholarship gymnast, so kind of busy. She is on a 5 year program to grad with the ChemEng and physics degrees.

Some people don't fit well in public classrooms, but I'm not recommending the school change it's curriculum, just allow those who can take it at a faster pace to advance as they normally would.
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Wow great for her--the one drawback I found was athletics; would've loved to play another year of soccer in school and have a shot at an upper level D1 team, but ultimately academics were 1st. Looks like your daughter is doing great though!
And yes, schools should be much more focused on accommodating the student, not telling them"this is how it is".
 
docmirror said:
When my son was in third grade, the primary school teacher had us in for the usual conference each year and she had a form filled out and said my son had qualified in the ADHD category. I looked at the form, and it was from some pharma company, they prolly hand them out to school teachers by the truckload.

So, I asked to see it, and once I had it in my hands, I tore it into about 100 pieces and asked her if she had any more written documentation about a medical diagnosis of my kid. She said no, and then I went straight from there to the principal and I told him that under no terms was ANYONE at the school to ever refer to my kid with any medical diagnosis unless it concerned a scraped knee, or the sniffles(cold). He didn't even know there was a ADHD form floating around his school.
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One of my teachers diagnosed me ADHD, ****ed my dad off so badly he wanted to have her charged with practicing medicine.

Thank god that they marched me out of that place and put me in a different school. Never got an real ADHD diagnosis, maybe because I never had it.
 
tonycondon said:
based on personal experience, sample size of one. someone i know. mom didn't do drugs during pregnancy. both parents in the home. good parents. good home life etc etc. kid gets good food, lots of excercise, and can't concentrate. pills are the difference between F's and C's. he takes them 5 days a week 9 months a year. All i know is one size does not fit all. I also know that I was a hyper kid and i'm glad i didn't get put on the pills to "help"
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Some people really do need help.
 
RV10flyer said:
I know first hand where you are coming from. There are many things that we as parents can do to challenge our children outside of school too. The education field can be very challenging whether government ran or private. Best of luck to you and your daughter.
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Interest of the student is everything. I struggled from 5th-11th grade when I finally flunked out, rather epically.

I then went to the vocational school's high school aviation maintenance program and graduated with the all time best grade they had ever had in the program.
 
Saw a tv commercial yesterday for easter seal pretty much saying that 1 in 4 kids will be born with either autism, or learning disabilities, and asking for donations. When I was a kid we did not have the autism diagnosis. There were smart kids, and not so smart kids, and some kids were better than others, but when you misbehaved you got in trouble. Today, when you misbehave it seems you either get a pill and a diagnosis, or get arrested and get a record. If they did that when I was in school I do not think any of would have made it out of school unscathed. Back then we did not fear the teachers as much as we feared what our parents would do to us if we went home with a letter from the teacher. Today, you can look at your kid crossed eyed and almost get cited for child endangerment.
 
Well, the great thing about the US is the fact that we can each raise our kids the way we want. Sadly, those who can get ahead are held back so much by infrastructure, and standardization. While the intellectual benefits of private or home schooling are very great, they also come with their own detractors to emotional and social development.

The way I saw it, my kids are going to have to deal with the incompetents, and lazy out in the real world, so let them find their way through the maze in school. Yes, it does require significant intestinal fortitude, no - I would not recommend it to others. My son graduated #11 a year early, and my daughter graduated #3 in a class of about 300-ish. They are freaks of nature to be sure, and one was 'diagnosed' with ADHD, and the other one they hinted at some kind of psychological problem.

After careful consideration, I've come to the conclusion that my kids are the above-normal ones and the rest of the youth today are slothful, arrogant, uniformed, Nintendo playing wastrels. YMWV
 
docmirror said:
Well, the great thing about the US is the fact that we can each raise our kids the way we want. Sadly, those who can get ahead are held back so much by infrastructure, and standardization. While the intellectual benefits of private or home schooling are very great, they also come with their own detractors to emotional and social development.

The way I saw it, my kids are going to have to deal with the incompetents, and lazy out in the real world, so let them find their way through the maze in school. Yes, it does require significant intestinal fortitude, no - I would not recommend it to others. My son graduated #11 a year early, and my daughter graduated #3 in a class of about 300-ish. They are freaks of nature to be sure, and one was 'diagnosed' with ADHD, and the other one they hinted at some kind of psychological problem.

After careful consideration, I've come to the conclusion that my kids are the above-normal ones and the rest of the youth today are slothful, arrogant, uniformed, Nintendo playing wastrels. YMWV
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There was a lot more freedom to "raise our kids the way we want" when I was a kid than when I was a parent. Believe me when I say that some of the things my parents did to me on a regular basis for misbehaving would have gotten me in foster care and them in prison for child abuse. Yet I turned out sort of okay Iguess... well certainly I give more to society than I take.
 
I have two of my three on ADHD meds.

A little background on Dad.

I was a lousy student from day one. Every report card going back to kindergarten comments section was something to the effect of “Very bright when he applies himself, consistently late assignments and not paying attention”. In high school I really hated school due to constant punishment at home due to bad grades, teachers letting me know I would not amount to much, and the incredible boredom of being there. I ended up graduating with a D- average. Next I joined the service and as I went through tech school I noticed the pace was a lot faster and the style the information was delivered was really easy for me to grasp. I soaked it up and was top of my class, earned a few achievement medal’s, perfect evaluations, Sailor of the Year, yada yada…..After getting out I started my own business, became a pilot.:D Bottom line is that when I could do things at my speed everything started clicking and my non-diagnosed disability is who I am today. Had I been diagnosed I’m sure my life would be very different.

Kids:

Two of my kids are diagnosed with ADHD and the meds clearly calm them to do well in school (High Honor role), we eat well, discipline them, and do everything we can to help them succeed.

I struggle daily with the correct answer as to what we should do about all the kids with ADHD but from my experience it has largely gone undiagnosed in previous generations. It is a fact that most undiagnosed kids end up doing poorly in school and a very high % end up using drugs or other means of dealing with it.

Back in the good old days of parents whooping kids butts and failing kids out of school you didn’t have a society with such a focus on a college degree if you want any success in life. There were a lot more paths to success in society, they still exist today but it is a harder road and most parents would like to see them do well in the framework that the schools have laid out.

My opinion is that the school system is broken and if your brain doesn’t work at the speed or capacity they dictate you need to medicate (Institutionalize)kids to survive in that environment.

It is never tolerated as a crutch or excuse for lousy behavior, bad grades, or impulsivity in our house. They are constantly reminded that they have to function in society as it is.

Oh! I see a rabbit….Gota go!:rockon:
 
I don't want to derail this excellent discussion with details of parent discipline. I want to continue to focus on the ADHD explosion in diagnosis.

So Jeff - there's a case for medication. Do you think your kids could do as well, or nearly as well without the medication? I'm not say that the difference be significant, but is it possible that without medication they would get through, albeit at a somewhat lower standard?
 
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