It's positive controlled Class B airspace, folks.
Near miss of TV chopper and commuter jet over the 405 at LAX
- Thread starter mikea
- Start date
It's positive controlled Class B airspace, folks.
Re: Near miss of TV chopper and commuter jet over the 405 at LAZ
Or maybe not...mikea said:
mikea said:
You sure? It's been a long time since I lived & flew in the area, but from my memory, if they were under 2500' there (likely where the news helos operate) they may have been below the Class B.
Oh. I didn't look. It sounded like they were close enough to be in the surface area.Henning said:
There's no room that close to O'Hare.
You could be right. I can't speak for LA, but in the Philly area, most helicopters are at 500-1,000 agl. We monitor 123.025 which the news, traffic, and cops all use to announce their positions. I routinely fly under the Philly 1200' MSL shelf, which is uncontrolled. The inside edge of that shelf takes me pretty close to KPHL. I've never had to dodge fixed-wing traffic there, though.Henning said:
mikea said:
I'm kinda fuzzy on it like I said and dont have the chart and Thomas guide to tell exactly where they were. Any basin residents clear this up? There was also the comment from ATC that they had no responsibility in the matter, and that says to me they were not in the B. Which would bring about the question, What was an airliner doing operating there?
Steve
En-Route
"The near-miss came after the plane's pilot made a sharp turn to land on LAX's northernmost runway and discovered the chopper in his flight path."
This, too, raises questions as to the pilot's actions, imho. But I wasn't there so I can only speculate.
This, too, raises questions as to the pilot's actions, imho. But I wasn't there so I can only speculate.
Steve said:
Yeah, that's why I was trying to figure exactly where La Tijera Boulevard and the 405 is in relation to the Class B base structure. Any of the SoCal people clear this up for us? Thomas Guide anyone? I left mine back in the States.
bkreager
Pre-takeoff checklist
Using www.flyagogo.net I think that at the intersection of the roads, the B-space floor is at 5000. Very close to the airport though.
Areeda
Pattern Altitude
I get it as 1.6nm from the approach end of 24R outside of Bravo airspace
Areeda
Pattern Altitude
Another part of the enroute chart. Note the Magenta lines are Class B boundaries, there is a very narrow north-south section around the runway complex.
Pilawt
Final Approach
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Steve
En-Route
Cut the corner maybe?
The word is that they copter was under the Class B and the jet was cleared for a visual approach. The jet very well could have gotten close the copter even if the jet stayed in the Class B. 100 feet below the Class B is a legal place to be.Henning said:
So far they say there was no traffic alert from ATC so of course, it's all their fault.
Pilawt said:
Thanks, that was what I thought I remembered, but wanted to be sure. Was it a VNY-LAX flight? I'm wondering what the SAAB 340 was doing outside the cone.
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Areeda
Pattern Altitude
Henning said:
According to the report it was SBA-LAX. The TEC (SBAM10) is KWANG VTU V299 SADDE V107 SMO at 5000.
Joe
Areeda said:
Then I still don't understand what brought him to where he was at the altitude he was. Sounds like someones doin the carpet dance.
Areeda
Pattern Altitude
Henning said:
My guess, is that it was CAVU which would make LAX visible from way before Santa Monica, he would have been cleared for the visual approach and kept it a bit too tight and too low mixing it up in some VERY F-in Busy Class E airspace, instead of Class B where he thought he was. JMHO.
Joe
Areeda said:
Hmmm, Round 2. I know just how busy that space is. That's why most ops manuals call for them to stay within the cone of the B.
Or when you go VFR you have to watch for traffic even if you're an airliner.Henning said:
Len Lanetti
Cleared for Takeoff
RotaryWingBob said:
Back before they installed all the traffic cameras in the Philadelphia area there would be several fixed wing traffic planes and a helicopter all along the area from 95 at the Ben Franklin Bridge, east of the city, up along the Schuylkill expressway during rush hours morning and afternoon. The fixed wing aircraft would be at 1,000 or 1,100 using PHLs altimeter setting from the latest ATIS.
With PHL typically landing to the west the airliners would be above us. We would contact PHL tower to get permission to enter the Bravo airspace if we had to go south of the Ben Franklin on I95 or north on I95 after following the Schuylkill to the Blue Route until it hooked back up with I95. The part I never liked was crossing the Deleware River after going north on I95 along PHL airport. Typically, the "director" wanted you to go over the Walt Whitman bridge to report on any backups. This put you in the middle of and going perpindicular to the final for 27 at PHL.
Len
Len Lanetti said:
Yeah, there's a pilot job the web cams ate, traffic reporting.
Len Lanetti
Cleared for Takeoff
Henning said:
Yep, several CFIs I knew generated a very steady stream of income and hours from doing a traffic run every morning and every afternoon. It also left them free to instruct the rest of the day and on weekends.
Technology taketh away...Another few years and there won't be need to cart checks overnight due to the ability to image checks and send the data electronically (Check 21 legislation).
Technology giveth...is there still many hours flown in support of locating places for cell phone tower and the like? How about the inspection of those things?
Len
Len, there's still a 172 we see around the West Chester area flying pipeline inspections, and most high tension wires are inspected (and repairedLen Lanetti said:
) from MD500s.