Narco AT-150 Ident not working

[CC268]

I have a NARCO AT-150 in my airplane and on my most recent trip coming back from Chandler to Deer Valley, Deer Valley tower asked me to ident. They said they weren't receiving it (we tried multiple times). Never had any issues with it until that day. Other than the ident, everything else worked.

Anyways, today I am going to ask ground or the tower if there is a way I can test it out real quick. The ident switch lights up when you press it and it flashes when in flight. Funny, we called like 4 or 5 avionics shops and there was only one guy who will even work on Narco hahaha. Anyways, he gave us a few "ground" tests to do and they all worked.

So...my question isn't really about fixing this transponder, it is more regarding flying without the "ident" working. We plan to take the transponder over to the avionics guy this weekend, but I'd still like to fly if possible. I was going to fly to Eloy today, but that will require me to use the Bravo transition over Sky Harbor...not sure if Phoenix Approach might be unhappy if the ident isn't working. Should I just not fly until we get the ident fixed?

Thanks.

 

[Caramon13]

Well, here's a question. Is your transponder fully operable if the IDENT feature isn't working? Isn't there a FAR somewhere about inoperable equipment and what you need to do in the event it isn't working?

Also, are you required to have a transponder in Class Bravo airspace or near it? And do you have a fully functional one?

See where I'm going here?

 

[CC268]

Well, here's a question. Is your transponder fully operable if the IDENT feature isn't working? Isn't there a FAR somewhere about inoperable equipment and what you need to do in the event it isn't working?

Also, are you required to have a transponder in Class Bravo airspace or near it? And do you have a fully functional one?

See where I'm going here?

The following areas require the operation of a Mode C transponder:

• Operations within Class A, Class B, and Class C airspace.
• Operations within 30 nautical miles of the primary airport within Class B airspace from the surface to 10,000 feet msl (see airports listed below).
• Operations above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of Class B and C airspace.

KDVT is within the Class B lateral boundaries, and 15 NM from KPHX so it would be illegal for me to even take off from KDVT. Only thing I could do at this point is ask for a deviation from ATC in order to fly to Chandler (how would I even request this?). Bummer...looks like I won't be flying for a while

It is still a bit confusing to me because "ident" isn't mentioned anywhere in the FARs from what I can find. The altitude encoder, squak code, etc all work on the transponder (just not the ident feature - at least as far as I know until I ask to test it at KDVT).

 

[Caramon13]

The following areas require the operation of a Mode C transponder:

• Operations within Class A, Class B, and Class C airspace.
• Operations within 30 nautical miles of the primary airport within Class B airspace from the surface to 10,000 feet msl (see airports listed below).
• Operations above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of Class B and C airspace.

KDVT is within the Class B lateral boundaries, and 15 NM from KPHX so it would be illegal for me to even take off from KDVT. Only thing I could do at this point is ask for a deviation from ATC in order to fly to Chandler (how would I even request this?). Bummer...looks like I won't be flying for a while

It is still a bit confusing to me because "ident" isn't mentioned anywhere in the FARs from what I can find. The altitude encoder, squak code, etc all work on the transponder (just not the ident feature - at least as far as I know until I ask to test it at KDVT).

It wouldn't be illegal if you got approval ahead of time. You can fly within the mode c veil without a functioning transponder, just need permission first. They'll give you a code and you use that as the "ident" when you call them up. They'll need to know the specifics of your flight of course. I'd also make sure your transponder is OFF if you do this, just in case they wonder why they see a target if you don't have a functioning transponder.

I had a AT 150 in my Cherokee, that IDENT button seems to fail pretty darn often. Mine never did, but I heard about it a LOT. Made me seriously consider upgrading my transponder, but then I sold the plane so..never got around to it.

I think you figured it out on your own and yeah it seems like a very minor feature, but if ATC has a lot of planes to manage, NOT being able to ident may be a problem, especially around Bravo airspace.

I couldn't find anything in the FAR's about it either actually. So that's why I threw out the inop equipment hint. Mostly because I got a similar question from a DPE during one of my checkrides, probably instrument about a MEL and inop equipment. The best idea as you said is to get it fixed before launching and having to explain yourself in the air.

 

[CC268]

It wouldn't be illegal if you got approval ahead of time. You can fly within the mode c veil without a functioning transponder, just need permission first. They'll give you a code and you use that as the "ident" when you call them up. They'll need to know the specifics of your flight of course. I'd also make sure your transponder is OFF if you do this, just in case they wonder why they see a target if you don't have a functioning transponder.

I had a AT 150 in my Cherokee, that IDENT button seems to fail pretty darn often. Mine never did, but I heard about it a LOT. Made me seriously consider upgrading my transponder, but then I sold the plane so..never got around to it.

I think you figured it out on your own and yeah it seems like a very minor feature, but if ATC has a lot of planes to manage, NOT being able to ident may be a problem, especially around Bravo airspace.

I couldn't find anything in the FAR's about it either actually. So that's why I threw out the inop equipment hint. Mostly because I got a similar question from a DPE during one of my checkrides, probably instrument about a MEL and inop equipment. The best idea as you said is to get it fixed before launching and having to explain yourself in the air.

Thanks - how would I go about asking permission? Would I give them a phone call or pick this up in the air?

Yea my understanding is NARCO isn't the most reliable hardware...unfortunately my dad wants to do all he can to save this thing until we move onto something else.

 

[Timbeck2]

At this point your silver lining is finding someone who works on Narco. It that fails, Bevan-Rebell in Kansas still does. Or you can bite the bullet and go ADS-B earlier than you planned.

 

[CC268]

At this point your silver lining is finding someone who works on Narco. It that fails, Bevan-Rebell in Kansas still does. Or you can bit the bullet and go ADS-B earlier than you planned.

Yea like I said one guy at Chandler works on them. The other shops we called wouldn't bother - many of which were trying to sell ADS-B. My dad seems to think he will just replace it with another Narco AT-150 for about $1000...I don't necesarilly agree with this, but 5k for a Garmin GTX345 is definitely a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Timbeck2]

If you take it to the guy in Chandler ask if he works on Narco 890 DME units as well. I have one working and one with only the display working. If so I'll fly up and buy you breakfast at that nice cafe up there. There are cheaper ADS-B options out there ya know.

 

[CC268]

If you take it to the guy in Chandler ask if he works on Narco 890 DME units as well. I have one working and one with only the display working. If so I'll fly up and buy you breakfast at that nice cafe up there. There are cheaper ADS-B options out there ya know.

Ha sounds good! What other options are there (I am really not all that familiar since I hadn't planned at looking at ADSB stuff yet)? I will say...Garmin is expensive, but I used a Garmin GTX345 and 430W in the 172 I trained in and they are phenomenal avionics. Intuitive, works with ForeFlight, etc.

 

[Timbeck2]

Check out the ADS-B threads in the avionics section.

 

[CC268]

So I called Deer Valley tower to ask them about this and how I could test the Ident. They said unfortunately I couldn't test it on the ground as the radar won't pick it up, but I can go up in the pattern and ask to test the ident. He said as long as my altitude and squawk code works I should be fine to fly to Eloy through the VFR transition (since Phoenix Approach gives you a squawk code immediately). The transponder will be looked at this weekend.