[NA]TV/DSL cable[NA]

Discussion in 'Technical Corner' started by Let'sgoflying!, Jun 17, 2017 at 2:02 PM.

  1. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I need to run a cable from my house where the telephone service cable currently terminates, to another house on my property, 250' away.
    It will be in 1&1/4" underground conduit.
    (I am in the boonies with no other sources for the telephone people to get a signal to this house; I am certain they will want to use one of the unused pairs in my preprepared conduit to supply this house, rather than run a half mile of cable on poles.)
    So, what should I put into the conduit? Where the cable will go into and out of the conduit, there will be some exposure to, especially, rodents - and slightly, to weather.

    The wire will hopefully be able to carry a signal adequate for phone/internet/TV. I get phone and internet at my house so those should be possible. Not sure if TV is available. Not sure if there is enough bandwidth this far from the node or whatever, to get TV.
     
  2. flyingron

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    Why conduit? You can direct bury appropriate cable (possibly sleeving it with conduit to protect it where it emerges from the ground). If you are going to run conduit, why not carry it all the way into the buildings on both ends. If you do use conduit you still need to use a wet rated cable (conduits always leak).

    Another 250' isn't going to likely screw up DSL or voice circuits. The TV issue really is independent of the wiring. You need to see if the DSL has enough bandwidth to provide whatever streaming service you are envisioning. All the TV offerings from the phone companies around here are in fact DirecTV dishes. Until they put fiber drops in you don't have the bandwidth for a "real" TV offering.
     
  3. Let'sgoflying!

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    Why conduit instead of direct bury? It was really easy to drop the conduit into the existing trenches, at that time we had no idea what cables would be needed between the buildings - in fact I still don't but the conduit is there, ready for cable to be pulled.
    I can carry the conduit into the destination building but at the source end, I really don't want a big hole into my exterior.

    So prob no TV on the DSL (actually Uverse). Likely will need a dish.

    Thanks
     
  4. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Would a cat6 cover this plus most future needs?
     
  5. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Cat 6 will work, but really would be overkill. If you're going to just run your phone/DSL over it, it's straightforward. If you are intending to run high speed (gigE or whatever) you're going to need to be careful to terminate it properly.
     
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  6. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    You could still terminate the conduit in a box on the outside of the house and run a smaller sleeve indoors. You'll want to put an appropriate arrester on both ends of the wire, by the way.
     
  7. Let'sgoflying!

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    This is for lightning?
     
  8. Let'sgoflying!

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  9. RJM62

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    Yes, it has a maximum length of 100 meters. But as flyingron said, it's pricey and unnecessary unless you want to run gigE over it. It's overkill for DSL.

    What's the distance to the DSLAM?

    Rich
     
  10. Let'sgoflying!

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    I am a mile from town, from the ATT 'switching station'
     
  11. flyingron

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    That's probably close enough, though these days the DSLAMs can be anywhere. Mine is sitting in a cabinet on the side of the road about a quarter of a mile away.
     
  12. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Cat 6 may be overkill, but if the cost differential is low, I'm one who would put the higher capability in in the event technology changes down the road. If the cost is significant, I wouldn't do it. You may have a different view than I.
     
  13. denverpilot

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    They've been doing DSL TV around the region here for a while now.

    All they need is enough bandwidth to feed one channel to each box that's active (and they limit the number of simultaneous channels) and a few more for "DVR" service, depending on if they do that in the customer premises or off-site.

    No need to send all the channels all the time done the pipe, like cable companies typically do.

    All depends on the local company's implementation. Doesn't take that much bandwidth. Most of them are compressing HD heavily so it runs about 10 Mb/s per channel streaming, max. Usually closer to 8. (Raw HD is 16.)

    Channel "switching" is just a command sent upstream to the head end to stream a different stream down to the customer premises.
     
  14. flyingron

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    You'd be lucky to get a 10MB DSL stream in many places. Our operators here, sell you a dish unless you have a fiber local loop.
     
  15. John221us

    John221us En-Route PoA Supporter

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    If you are burying copper, definitely put in lightning protection on both sides. I have seen the results of not doing it more than once. It can get expensive.
     
  16. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    And in others it's a piece of cake, which is why I responded. Your information may or may not be useful depending on what he's actually buying.

    Wish it was affordable/feasible to do lightning protection like we do on commercial towers at home, but one can only get close. Burying enough copper to do a proper halo system is ungodly expensive. But usually protections at all entrances is enough.

    I've seen that blown up, too, without a fully bonded halo system that's bonded to every entrance panel and properly sized gas discharge devices on every stinkin' cable and a measured multiple ground rod system! Heh.

    Gets spendy real fast making sure the angry pixies go where you want them to, when you KNOW it'll be hit directly by lightning.
     
  17. John221us

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    Yes, the commercial installations are definitely needed when you are protecting expensive assets, but APC makes some decent inexpensive stuff that will probably run less than $100 a side. I agree, especially in West Texas, where the OP resides, he will get hit, eventually. I have seen equipment that was completely fried black. That stuff has some power.
     
  18. Let'sgoflying!

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    We get hit every summer & rainy season is almost upon us. I average 2.5 devices lost each year due to angry bolts of electronic death from above. Now I mostly only lose APC surge devices (and they are warranted), before it was phones, computers, printers, phone computer systems, etc.
    So tell me exactly what to put in & where. I get the "grounded APC box at the service entrance" but are we talking about dedicated ground rods??
     
  19. John221us

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    I have always used APC's modular rack protectors, but here is a stand alone device: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BKUSS...t=&hvlocphy=9032520&hvtargid=pla-314322209240

    We have always done dedicated ground rods, but I couldn't tell you if you need them for a consumer application. I don't think it is expensive, so, you might as well.
     
  20. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Both my dad's house and mine have both taken direct hits. Ironically we were both active ham operators at the time with antennas and neither hit was on an antenna. Amazing.

    His hit a tree and welded all of his lawn edging together for 50 yards, traveled UP the dish ground wire, and blew his coax to the satellite receiver to little balls of PVC stuck to the walls and ceiling and made a stinky rattle toy out of the receiver.

    Mine hit the gutter area of the detached garage, went past and through the garage sub-panel that had its own eight foot ground rod driven directly beneath it, to the house panel that also had its own eight foot ground rod beneath it, through the house wiring on neutral to the TV, router, and NAS. Blew all three up, TV still works today but has one dead HDMI port. Also fried the ground in the basement from a sub-panel down there all the way around the basement to an always on ferroresonant big metal 13V power supply. (GE MASTR II Station supply) and didn't damage the radio attached to it or the PC wired to the radio logic and audio circuits. Amazingly variable. Blew a hole in the garage roof too, and vaporized the little low voyage wiring from the push button to the garage door opener. All that was left of that was a burn mark along the rafters it was stapled to.

    I don't think you can 100% protect against direct strikes. Something is going to give without a massive commercial halo system surrounding the building and above every electronic device in a ring around the whole house. Ha. Most people don't want to look at something like that in their houses, go figure. Ha.
     
  21. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    No idea if APC makes stuff for service panels but a number of consumer grade "whole house protectors" exist that go right in the service panel.

    They help. Nothing is perfect in a direct strike.

    Keep the APC stuff inside too. At least if you follow all their rules their insurance pays.

    Frankly in my hit that blew up multiple things and hole in the garage roof, homeowners insurance covered it all. Just had to inventory the damage and take photos. Took two days and then another week until I could have an electrician fix the basement ground that fried and meg out everything to make sure nothing else hidden in a wall was toast. (The basement side that was unfinished was where the ground wire scorched and vaporized so it was easy to find.)
     
  22. John221us

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    I am glad I don't live in an area like that, but I was doing nationwide Lync deployments for a healthcare company for a few years (telecom) and some of the areas saw a lot of that stuff. For the high risk areas, we did the expensive stuff (after they lost a few $100k on newly installed equipment). We always added the cheap stuff as a backup, though.
     
  23. denverpilot

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    Yeah may have changed, but Florida was #1 in total number of strikes and Colorado was #2 for a long time. Luckily a lot of them hit where nobody and nothing is.

    A buddy had a more interesting one. Heavy storm and a nearby strike blew a hole in his gas line near the meter and also ignited it. He was over on the Western Slope and he was a news nerd and paid for a service called Mountain News Net (still around but not as good as it once was) that sent texts to two way pagers about major events in any area of CO.

    He looks at his pager and sees "House fire dispatched by [his district] two alarm... and [his address.]" LOL. His boss told him to pack up and head home, and he would finish the event they were working.

    Got home and the FD had kept it from going inside but the outside of the house was burnt from the gas meter to the roofline, both stories.
     
  24. Let'sgoflying!

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    Yep, lightning can do whatever it damn well pleases, like much of mother nature. I never feel safe during a storm, even inside. Probably need to build a monster faraday cage around my bed and wait them out there.