NA Telephone Trickery

weirdjim

Ejection Handle Pulled
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weirdjim
I use a VOIP service for my phone and I'd like to add a line, which from the VOIP side is pretty trivial.

What is NOT trivial is getting the phone number I want. I happen to know that the number is not in service but I can't get that number without "owning" it already. That seems to involve getting twisted pair service from AT&T, getting that number, transferring it to the VOIP service, then cancelling the AT&T service. That seems to be a ring-around-the-rosy for no good reason.

Is there a trick to getting that number (530-273-7388, and you hams in the group know why I want it) without going through the rigamarole described above?

Thanks,

Jim
 
I think Nate will be able to answer this easier, but my understanding is the LEC owns the number. It will need to be ported over to your voice service. So it seems like you're on the right track
 
I had the same problem. I allowed a wired line to lapse and wanted to add it to my voip service and that would have been the process.
 
Yep, you can only port numbers you already have. The toll free numbers are up for grabs between carriers but the local ones are not. You have the right scheme to do it.

Amusingly, I ported the land line number I've had for 25 years to the voip service so I could have it when I moved. It's nothing remarkable other than I've had it a long time and it coincidentally turns out to be a prime number.
 
I just tried to move a number from Vonage to Comcast. Comcast tells me that they can't get that number as it is in a different 'rate center'. Vonage never had a problem moving the number around from county to county. Not sure what's up with that.
 
LNP definitely requires that you own the number before you can move it to another carrier.
 
Yes, there's additional requirements to porting. You have to have a carrier that has a presence in the area that it was assigned. This isn't typically a problem with cell companies as they are pretty universal, but some VOIP providers don't quite have universal coverage.
 
Yes, there's additional requirements to porting. You have to have a carrier that has a presence in the area that it was assigned. This isn't typically a problem with cell companies as they are pretty universal, but some VOIP providers don't quite have universal coverage.
OK, then I'll ask the question another way. AT&T is the local twisted pair carrier. Is there ANY other phone company that can get me the number I want, even if for only a week or so, without me having to completely re-establish a phone line (and pay the exorbitant "new customer" fees) with ATT? Or I'll say to hell with the cutesy number and just take one of the ones that my VOIP service has available.

Jim
 
I don't believe so. You've got to get "ownership" of the number from the LEC. Only then can you LNP it over to another carrier
 
No, as I thought I made clear, the numbers initially belong to the local carrier (whether it be the land line or cellular service). Once you HAVE one, you can port it to another carrier that has a presence in the same area.
 
When I moved my landline to a VOIP carrier, AT&T assumed I didn't want Internet service anymore and disconnected it! :mad3:

I found out later that their terms of service allow them to make that assumption. I'm sure that satisfies their lawyers, but it sure doesn't doesn't sound like much of a business plan. The only reason AT&T still has my Internet business is that when I decided to give Comcast a try, they turned out to be worse! :mad2:
 
No, as I thought I made clear, the numbers initially belong to the local carrier (whether it be the land line or cellular service). Once you HAVE one, you can port it to another carrier that has a presence in the same area.
That was NOT clear, Ron, which is why I asked. If there is a cellular service in this area (which there is) do they BOTH have access to that number? It would be a hell of a lot easier for me to get a cheap cellphone, get service on that number with any one of half a dozen cell services here, and then port it over and drop the cell service. That was the crux of my second question.

Thanks,

Jim
 
No, the cellular guys have their own blocks of numbers assigned to them. You have to go to the guys who have the number to get it initially. Now I guess they might offer it to you without service, I suspect you'd have to work pretty hard to find someone who even knew what you were talking about let alone one who could figure out how to accomplish it.
Vanity 8xx numbers are a whole lot easier. It only took me two days to get my VOIP provider to turn up 877 RON MARG and 877 FLY NC26.
 
No, the cellular guys have their own blocks of numbers assigned to them. You have to go to the guys who have the number to get it initially. Now I guess they might offer it to you without service, I suspect you'd have to work pretty hard to find someone who even knew what you were talking about let alone one who could figure out how to accomplish it.
Vanity 8xx numbers are a whole lot easier. It only took me two days to get my VOIP provider to turn up 877 RON MARG and 877 FLY NC26.

'splain how you did that. Pay extra for a vanity number? 873-873-8873 would be a kick in the head.

Jim
 
'splain how you did that. Pay extra for a vanity number? 873-873-8873 would be a kick in the head.

Jim

Already in use by Janet Aguilar in Rialto, CA... unless she's released it since Google indexed it on a public records search site.
 
Call AT&T and tell them you want a "Remote Forwarding Number". That is what I have had on my primary business line since 1998. It is a number in cyberspace that I can point to whatever number I want to...cell phone, land line, Google Voice, call service...whatever. Rather than porting ever time we move or switch services, I just set up the service I want and forward my business line there so I own and control my number at all times. It is not tied to a twister pair or physical location.

Oder that so you can get your number than port from there.
 
Call AT&T and tell them you want a "Remote Forwarding Number". That is what I have had on my primary business line since 1998. It is a number in cyberspace that I can point to whatever number I want to...cell phone, land line, Google Voice, call service...whatever. Rather than porting ever time we move or switch services, I just set up the service I want and forward my business line there so I own and control my number at all times. It is not tied to a twister pair or physical location.

Oder that so you can get your number than port from there.

That works but if you need the outbound caller ID to match when you dial out, you have to resort to some VOIP trickery. Or if the outbound calls are on a business T1 and you're set up correctly to send it, you can sign some paperwork asserting that you own the other number and the carrier can unblock the filter at the CO that keeps you from announcing / spoofing Caller ID outbound.

Most people call folks back these days from whatever they got on their caller ID. They don't bother even listening to any voice mails that got left.

How you handle outbound caller ID is a pretty significant engineering step when installing a business phone system these days.

We announce direct numbers for managers and people with direct to the public job roles, and an 800 number for any phone or softphone associated with any agent licenses in the callcenter.

The 800 number comes back to a custom IVR menu just for those portions of that business and bypasses the main IVR menu that handles all five companies that take phone calls on our system. It also locks the return caller out of escaping to the "Operator" queue and offers no way to get to "dial by name" or "dial by extension", they must pick a queue over in that department that'll take them back to a call center agent.

Only certain agents may accept inbound calls from that "unknown" queue. They have special training on figuring out who is calling back for whom and have rights to transfer into other queues.

Conference room phones also get their own outbound direct caller ID but they're set to never go to the menus and never go to voice mail. They'll ring inbound and that's it. If no one is in there, you called for your conference at the wrong time, or you need to go look at the emails from people you're working with and call their real phone numbers.

Three phones are associated with one of the sub-businesses. Those have CID direct back to them on one line and a CID meant for outbound calls that might come back to anyone in that team, that goes to a menu for them, on line 2.

The only two phone lines in the entire building that we don't have to send oddball caller ID outbound for, are the fire alarm analog lines. And they never touch the PBX. (In Denver we're allowed to use one analog line dedicated to the fire panel and back it up with one analog PBX line by law. We decided it wasn't smart and just pay for two. We could also install a cellular backup. Cost wasn't any better and we kinda like the idea that the FD is really coming if the panel alerts.)

I geeked out last October designing this thing. It was fun. The only tricky part was the phones that live on people's home office desks in other States. They had to be labeled "Caution: Dialing 911 on this phone will call DENVER police not LOCAL police."

We also set up an email alert to all the admins and managers if someone does dial 911. It happens about weekly. We coach and coach but people still panic and hang up, triggering a call back and a dispatch if we don't answer. Because, callcenter. I jammed a two second delay in the emergency dial out script before actually placing the call, figuring nobody is going to die in two more seconds. It dropped the number of actual dial outs to 911 by over 90%. At least people are quick when they panic and hang up. Haha.

Last time one really went out, DPD officer stood over in Marketing flirting with one of the married ladies for an hour. She liked it and was flattered for about five minutes and then literally turned her back on him and went back to work while he kept talking for 55 more minutes.

The whole thing was line of sight from my old desk so at about the 20 minute mark I went over and attempted small talk to remove his targeting system from my co-worker but it didn't work. As soon as I had someone walk up needing something IT-ish, he started talking to her back again.

He was left handed and carried a Glock 22, I noticed. What a slab sided beast that chunk of plastic is. He was one of those who likes to hook both thumbs behind his holsters. Taser was on the other side. ;)

Standing there talking to her back at her desk he came across as "douchy" at best. Hahah. I almost asked him if he was lonely but I couldn't think of how to make it enough of a joke to keep him wondering. Almost raised the delay to five seconds that day, too. Hahaha.
 
'splain how you did that. Pay extra for a vanity number? 873-873-8873 would be a kick in the head.

Jim
My VOIP provider allows you to request vanity 8xx numbers when you sign up for the service. In fact, anybody who can provide 8xx service can do it. I had 800-888-PROP for the NE Navioneers for a while.

873 isn't an 8XX area code. The two Xs has to be the same digit.
 
911 information is decoupled from caller ID these days (frankly, it always was, it was a different pathway than caller ID. Our E911 system gets the number through a separate channel and then we had a computer (3B5) that connected the number up with the phone company address records. That worked fine until cell phones (and later VOIP). Now when you set up your VOIP service, you need to go through another step to let them know where you are.

If you have a outbound trunk into the system (as most VOIP providers or even 800# providers or whatever) you can pretty much insert whatever caller ID/billing number information you want into the system.
 
If you have a outbound trunk into the system (as most VOIP providers or even 800# providers or whatever) you can pretty much insert whatever caller ID/billing number information you want into the system.

That started changing a few years ago without stating what numbers you have outside of that carrier. Most good carriers started implementing filters on outbound CID to help stop malicious CID spoofing.

Cheap VOIP providers often still allow it though, since they're just lazy and don't care. But even the big kids will let you spoof either just your list of numbers from multiple carriers, or all numbers if you're hanging off of an older, dumber, switch... if you file the paperwork and say pretty please.

One of the things on the paper you sign is that if you're caught maliciously spoofing CID, all the costs of investigating it will be charged to you. Not that always bankrupt, fly by night call centers, care much.
 
Is there a difference between the AT&T twisted pair business and their cellular business? I found it relatively easy to get an AT&T burner cell.

I had a landline that I was keeping merely because a lot of old business contacts had the number. It was used almost exclusively for voice mail, which made it ridiculously expensive. I wanted to port the number to Google Voice but they will only port mobile numbers. AT&T sold me a burner cell phone and ported the number over for about $25. Then I ported the AT&T number to Google Voice and gave the burner to a recycling center. I wonder if there's any way you could get that number on a cell? I know you specifically said it had to be twisted pair service but I have not always received good info from these outfits when I want to do something unusual.
 
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