[NA]'Spying' electric meters[NA]

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
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http://goldsilver.com/video/smart-meters/

So where do you stand, regarding the smart meter?

A "Nothing to worry about as I have nothing to hide"

B "We should definitely resist, as smart meters are a part of the slippery slope."

C "We are Big Brother now; this is just another example - prepare to take up arms."

D..._______________
 
So where do you stand
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E: Don't give a damn.

100% of all my power is through a generator and a solar panel on systems I install and maintain myself. Good luck monitoring that because it's not going to be happening.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Actually you sound more like B or C.
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Actually it's E. It's an operational thing, not paranoia. About 300 days a year I have to drive way out of my way and give people money to plug into the grid anywhere at all. It's cheaper and less hassle to supply my own power. Starting next year I'm likely to not plug in at all anymore.
 
A). Nothing to worry about.

Smart meters will not show your personal information to the company. The data is relatively low resolution, taken at maybe minute intervals. Otherwise the data files would be massive. They won't be able to tell you turned your tooth brush on, or are running 2 computers vs. 1. It simple shows that you are using more power, which could be 1 big thing turned on, or a million small ones.

Yes, they might be able to tell when your home........ But that would probably be washed out in the spikes caused by your refrigerator, furnace, A/C.

Personally I can't wait for a smart meter installed at my house, since I'd be able to better monitor my own power usage..... And possibly curtail it.
 
TripleZ said:
A). Nothing to worry about.
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Agree. The electric company knows what you are using anyway. Who cares if it's transmitted electronically vs. someone coming to read your meter. The stream of data probably also helps them with forecasting their loads.
 
Given the fact that, for the first time since I owned my home, I don't have to fight the electric company over getting into read the meter (it's in a closet in the garage), I love it!
 
Definitely don't care. Mine's still mechanical though. Water meter is RF though.
 
They want to put smart meters here. Their justification (argument) is they can base their charge rates based on time of day usage.
 
Doesn't matter to me since my town has banned them :)

And yes, I am against them because they aren't just replacements for traditional meters, ie. they could have been implemented in a way where they would simply relay total usage once a month in the same way that current meters work right now but they weren't. Instead, they are transmitting all sorts of new data. I haven't thought about this specific case, but more automated data collection in this day and age of easy data correlation is almost always a bad thing. Think about the big picture.
 
I don't see what the problem is. What sort of data are you afraid they're going to get?
 
In the past, they used to know only every two months what your actual usage was. With a smart meter, they have detail down to whatever interval they need (to charge more for peak use?).
The potential is there. If there is a way for them to make more moey, they will!
 
Considering the energy providers in deregulated markets are paying market rate on an real time market, it's only fair that they pass on the burden of peak time to consumers.

Of course, the problem with all this is, it doesn't actually cost more to make that peak time power. It just sells for more during times of high usage.

I'd be perfectly ok with not paying extra to air condition the house when I'm not there.
 
We have them here, and I like it. I can log into my online account each month and view a graph of my electrical usage down to 15 min increments. I started noticing a spike in usage for a couple of hours each day when I wasn't home. Turns out that my automatic thermostat's programming had been changed and my AC was struggling to cool the place down for two hours only to let it warm back up until right before I got home. Had I not noticed that spike, I'd have just paid the bill and kept right on wasting that money.
 
I've got one. I was convinced I was being ripped off until I ran the numbers. My average rate is 80% or less of the fixed rate, even with me paying 300% during short peak times. I decided to stay with it.

I just made an effort to delay the dishwasher and clothes washer until off peak hours. I even bought a dishwasher with delayed start.

I have some beginning home automation to keep the lights off, and I'm planning to invest more including some power monitoring. BTW, there are some smart devices coming that can listen to the meter to give you your real use in $ per minute.

See: http://www.frugalnerd.com/blog/2010/02/comed-rrtp-intro/

The best part for me is that I won't be bothered by the village idjits who are planning to make a bulk electric purchase deal for all residents. Of course, "opt in" became "opt out" before you could blink. They can't include the few of us who have real-time meters.
 
silver-eagle said:
In the past, they used to know only every two months what your actual usage was. With a smart meter, they have detail down to whatever interval they need (to charge more for peak use?).
The potential is there. If there is a way for them to make more moey, they will!
Click to expand...

There have been demand meters on the market for years. They will simply record the peak usage during a 15 minute interval over the course of the billing/reading period. When the meter reader shows up, he/she simply resets the demand pointer, and buys another plastic seal from my employer.

The peak demand is also used in calculating commercial rates. The reasoning is that they must have the power available to meet the peak, so the customer pays for a part of that capacity, even though they don't use it.
 
denverpilot said:
Like what?
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Usage with a much, much higher resolution - like 15 minutes vs 1 month. Also, they transmit this data much more often and maybe on demand.

Everskyward said:
Did they use that silly health argument? I couldn't believe I was reading that in some of the propaganda.
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I'm not a RF expert, so I don't know if it's silly. But yes, one of the towns here did.
 
sba55 said:
...I'm not a RF expert, so I don't know if it's silly. But yes, one of the towns here did.
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C'Mon, It's Cal-eee--forn-nee-yah. They also sued because they can allegedly be made sick by WiFi radiation. Some of them can sense the juice in the power lines in the walls of the house.
 
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I have no idea how the power companies might ultimately use any data they receive but that's not the main driving reason why these things are popping up everyone. And it's not all about saving money either. PSC's are putting a lot of pressure on power providers to report on the scope of power outages - how many subscribers are affected and for how long. Right now, they guess at that and this technology will tell them exactly.

As for the RF thing, the leading product on the market for wireless meters is one based upon the 900 Mhz chip set that is in cordless home phones - back when they were all 900 Mhz. Health hazard - hardly.

Why do I know all this? Because it's a couple of guys that used to work for me that split off, started their own company, and designed the lowest cost, most capable version of the embedded technology that's powering them.

http://www.axiometric.com/
 
sba55 said:
I'm not a RF expert, so I don't know if it's silly. But yes, one of the towns here did.
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San Francisco did not buy that argument. There is now a smart meter in the condo. I don't expect one in my Colorado house because they are way behind, technically, here.
 
Doggtyred said:
Considering the energy providers in deregulated markets are paying market rate on an real time market, it's only fair that they pass on the burden of peak time to consumers.

Of course, the problem with all this is, it doesn't actually cost more to make that peak time power. It just sells for more during times of high usage.

I'd be perfectly ok with not paying extra to air condition the house when I'm not there.
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Not necessarily true. Usually true, but not always.
 
Part of the scam is that the rates are based on what's happening in on online trading floor - where Enron used to play - not at your power company.

Get me started about how Illinois ratepayers built the "too cheap to meter" nuke plants and then had them given away so we could pay market rates.
 
tin foil hat guy stopped by my place while he was walking the dog and i was replacing my porch light with a CFL bulb. started ranting about mercury and then said that the gas company was putting in RF transmitters that go out 2 miles and blah blah blah. he actually said something about having to wear aluminum foil so he didn't get cancer. i almost LOL'd
 
The thing that annoys me the most about these meters is that the power company where I live is asking for tax payer money to do the retrofit claiming it will help lower our costs. BS on several levels!!!!
 
ScottM said:
The thing that annoys me the most about these meters is that the power company where I live is asking for tax payer money to do the retrofit claiming it will help lower our costs. BS on several levels!!!!
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That part is very annoying. Boulder, CO bought into that stupidity, though. Millions of tax dollars to upgrade the system, when it should have been Xcel's bill.

I suspect once they get some friendly folks in the Colorado Congress and the right pressure on the Public Utilities Commission they'll weasel their way into getting tax money to retrofit the whole Metro area, eventually.

As someone else pointed out, they're so far behind technology and maintenance-wise, it'll be a while. They were still using magnetic tape recording devices for monitoring sub-stations well into the late 90's and early 2000's.
 
tonycondon said:
tin foil hat guy stopped by my place while he was walking the dog and i was replacing my porch light with a CFL bulb. started ranting about mercury and then said that the gas company was putting in RF transmitters that go out 2 miles and blah blah blah. he actually said something about having to wear aluminum foil so he didn't get cancer. i almost LOL'd
Click to expand...

Just don't go outside if you hear gunshots.
 
ScottM said:
The thing that annoys me the most about these meters is that the power company where I live is asking for tax payer money to do the retrofit claiming it will help lower our costs. BS on several levels!!!!
Click to expand...

:yeahthat: Hey, Scott more than half of our electric bills go to the poor, poor, entity that "lost" the power plants (to their parent company) just to pay for power distribution. We can't expect that to cover the cost of keeping power on like, every day, ya know.
 
sba55 said:
Doesn't matter to me since my town has banned them :)

And yes, I am against them because they aren't just replacements for traditional meters, ie. they could have been implemented in a way where they would simply relay total usage once a month in the same way that current meters work right now but they weren't. Instead, they are transmitting all sorts of new data. I haven't thought about this specific case, but more automated data collection in this day and age of easy data correlation is almost always a bad thing. Think about the big picture.
Click to expand...


Many places these "Smart Meters" can be a great advantage to the consumer because they allow you to take advantage of "off peak" energy pricing deals.
 
I have one and this summer I had only one bill top $200 (all electric house) and we tied the record for 90 degree days this year.
 
Henning said:
Many places these "Smart Meters" can be a great advantage to the consumer because they allow you to take advantage of "off peak" energy pricing deals.
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Yeah, but there are only a few ways a residential consumer can "take advantage" - by delaying washing for off-peak and using a time-controlled or automated thermostat. I may also put my battery charger wall warts on automation control.
 
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