NA-Legal "opinions".

Aztec Driver

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Bryon
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My business partner just unknowingly ran into a spot of trouble with the law. He is an avid guitarist and also dabbles at repairing old style amplifiers. He happened to see an amplifier for his guitar that he liked while driving around on service at a small garage sale type place. The next day he went back there and purchased it. He used it for a week or so and decided it was too much for his needs, so he goes to trade it in at his normal guitar center that he always does business with. It turns out that this amp was stolen several weeks earlier and he was arrested for possession of stolen property.The "garage sale" people are no longer there, of course, and he is left holding the problem.

He has retained a lawyer for this, who says it should not be a concern for him. He, however, is mortified. he is fearing the worst in all of this, including jail time, loss of ability to travel, and inability to pass background checks for the work we do.

What chances are there of this just disappearing with no consequences?
 
Wow, that sucks. With luck, the attorney will be able to get the DA to dismiss the charges based on lack of prior criminal history. Otherwise, your partner is in for several thousands of unrecoverable dollars for a criminal trial defense.

Probably winnable - prosecuter would have to establish intent, which would be difficult assuming your partner has a clean record and can present character witnesses.
 
I'm not a lawyer, and I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn recently, but here's my view on your partners issue.

In order to be convicted, I believe the courts have to show that the defendant knew or reasonably should have known that the item was stolen. If he told the police that he bought the amplifier out of some stranger's trunk in a shopping center parking lot, or if the cords to the amplifier had been cut, it would be fairly simple for the prosecutor to say that any normal citizen would have believed the item had been stolen. If your partner can make a case for this appearing to have been just a regular owner selling something he no longer needed, then I believe he should be okay.
 
He many beat the rap, but he won't beat the ride.

It will still cost him to fight the charges, and the way society is going, he will need to report the mere arrest for purposes of job applications, visa applications, professional licensing, etc. We have become a "one strike and you're out" society.

He's done the first "right" step by retaining an attorney. Follow the attorney's advice & specifically ask how to mitigate the collateral damage (which WILL occur).

I'll bet that he learns a lesson to avoid purchases of second-hand items unless he knows the seller or has the ability to vet the item being purchased.

The background check issue is more complicated. If there's a Federal security clearance, he may need to report the arrest. If not convicted, likely that there will be no long-term consequences (I've forgotten how far the feds go back for misdemeanors - 5 years, maybe?). But it probably will require explaining.
 
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I'm certain he'll have to give up whoever sold it to him to get out of it. He should too, those guys re the ones who, knowingly or not, got him in dutch with the law.
 
I'm certain he'll have to give up whoever sold it to him to get out of it. He should too, those guys re the ones who, knowingly or not, got him in dutch with the law.

The "garage sale" people are no longer there, of course, and he is left holding the problem.

Difficult. I'm sure he would if he could.

Similar thing happened to a friend of mine through buying a storage unit auction like they do on TV - of course, they couldn't find the original person who leased the unit and couldn't even show that the items had come from a storage unit. The DA really didn't care, he had someone he could pin it to and was determined to get a conviction. If not for the judge, he would have suceeded.

I hope your friend has a more reasonable DA looking at it.
 
It is one thing to have the stolen item taken away from you (which happens often and you lose having paid for it) but it is another thing to be accused of knowingly purchasing stolen item or be part of the actual criminal conspiracy. I tend to believe your friend left something out from the story (DAs typically would not waste time on accusations they won't be able to prove), but it is also possible he is a victim of unusual circumstances.
 
> He many beat the rap, but he won't beat the ride.

Amen, brother. It costs real dollars to defend your innocence.

>> He has retained a lawyer for this, who says it should not be a concern for him.
>> He, however, is mortified. he is fearing the worst ...

Hopefully; he retained a first-class criminal defense attorney, not a generalist. They
don't come cheap.
 
It is one thing to have the stolen item taken away from you (which happens often and you lose having paid for it) but it is another thing to be accused of knowingly purchasing stolen item or be part of the actual criminal conspiracy. I tend to believe your friend left something out from the story (DAs typically would not waste time on accusations they won't be able to prove), but it is also possible he is a victim of unusual circumstances.

This. It's difficult get cops to respond to most burglary or break in calls, they just want to take down info over the phone.

There may be missing details, or your partner may be fighting human nature, the more he screams the bigger the over reaction.

It's like DUI---the rich don't care if they get caught, they beat it with big $$$ lawyers, and the economic consequences aren't a big deal if they don't. The poor don't care, they don't pay fines, there's no room in jail and they normally drive without licenses and insurance anyway. But, it's a serious issue for the middle class, and most of the good feelings cops and DAs have about enforcing DUI are driven by middle-class anguish.

Unlike DUI, buying stolen articles doesn't usually harm others physically, and I can't imagine that any jury in the country would convict this guy if his version of the truth is even remotely correct. He's either holding something back, doing things that enrage cops and DAs (really bad and disrespectful idea) or playing into "go after the guy who cares" syndrome. The DA might be able to convict the guy who sold him the amp, because he knows he's not going to jail and doesn't really care, but that's not much fun for cops or DAs.

I doubt that there's a lot in our increasingly liberal/prison-space-challenged society that's much fun for law enforcement and DAs, and while they may not have the "guilty until proven innocent which never happens" power of the FAA they can make choices, and your partner may want to consider if there are other ones that he could make that might help deescalate things.

I've heard of acrimonious lawsuits related to people trying to keep articles someone else claimed were stolen, and it's not easy to prove that something like an amp was stolen from you in the first place. It happens with airplane title disputes, in fact. It's not easy to get property back, much less prosecute an "innocent" buyer. I've never heard of someone being prosecuted for buying stolen goods unknowingly, and how exactly do you prove that they knew it was stolen?

This doesn't sound like something law enforcement and ADAs would waste time on, there isn't enough tough-on-crime press to be had and law enforcement is bogged down with real crime. More like something a city would be sued for wrongful prosecution over---guess I'm just skeptical, but something doesn't add up.
 
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It is one thing to have the stolen item taken away from you (which happens often and you lose having paid for it) but it is another thing to be accused of knowingly purchasing stolen item or be part of the actual criminal conspiracy. I tend to believe your friend left something out from the story (DAs typically would not waste time on accusations they won't be able to prove), but it is also possible he is a victim of unusual circumstances.

He hasn't left anything out except for things that are none of my business. He was only arrested. Hasn't made it to the court system as yet, so no telling what they will decide to go after. They will have a difficult time finding the person/persons doing the selling, as they appear to have moved on. There is some question as to whether a reasonable person would have thought they were stolen, although he certainly did not. If he did, he would not have taken it to the place he did to sell it, as he would certainly have known they would check the serial number. Unfortunately, he will have learned a very hard lesson in being careful from whom you buy items.

I can see this happening to others, unknowingly buying things at flea markets all across the country, and then getting caught with it when you try to sell it yourself. How would a run of the mill person know if it was stolen?
 
There is no reason with enough effort [or money] to be able to beat most anything short of a felony prosecution . . . this is a simple situation of a prosecutor over-reaching and over-charging to get him to plead guilty to 'receiving' stolen property or jaywalking or something to bump up the count . . . find out who owns the amp - and if they know anyone in the police or prosecutors office. . . that usually explains it.

IF - a big assumption - the facts are as stated, the price was reasonable given the time place and manner of sale - and there was nothing in the manner of sale to suggest stolen property then the mere possession if it not criminal unless they can do more than connect the dots.

He needs to shut up, let the lawyers to do the talking and go buy a bottle of scotch or whatever and ask the doc for some lorzaepam [and not fly if he is a pilot and to fully disclose it and the events at this next medical] until it passes over and he can get on with his life.
 
It is one thing to have the stolen item taken away from you (which happens often and you lose having paid for it) but it is another thing to be accused of knowingly purchasing stolen item or be part of the actual criminal conspiracy. I tend to believe your friend left something out from the story (DAs typically would not waste time on accusations they won't be able to prove), but it is also possible he is a victim of unusual circumstances.

Wow. I'm glad you aren't my friend.
 
As for the question about how this will affect his security clearance:

He needs to report the arrest to his security officer ASAP. Some agencies have specific requirements as to how soon after an arrest it needs to be reported. Whether he is ever convicted or not is just as relevant as whether he reports the arrest or not. Security clearances are all about "can we trust this guy to be honest, even if being honest will cause him personal discomfort?"

He needs to run to the nearest phone and contact his security officer right now.

edit: I googled it, and found this:
[FONT=arial, helvetica]Arrests: If you are arrested for any reason, this must be reported regardless of whether or not you were convicted or charges were dropped for lack of evidence. Minor traffic violations are the only exception to this reporting requirement. Some organizations define a minor violation as one for which the penalty is a fine of $150 or less.[/FONT]
http://www.dm.usda.gov/ocpm/Security Guide/S4self/Intro.htm
 
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Bryon, As you know from our previous conversations, I am an attorney and I practice in PA. It depends what your partner was charged with. In PA mere possession of stolen property is not a crime.He was likely charged with Receiving Stolen Property which requires that the possesor of teh property know or have reason to know that the property is stolen. The chances of a sucessful defense are all fact specific. For example I've had clients charged with this crime for driving a stolen vehilce. If the vehicle had a broken window, broken steering column and started with a screw driver the prosecution will have an easy chance of a conviction.

I had one client who's friend drove the car for two years, it started with a key had a good license plate etc and there was no way the prosecution could prove RSP.

In PA after arrest or summons there is a preliminary hearing which is held before a Magisterial District Justice. The purpose of a prelim is to determine if the charges should be held for trial. The Commonwealth's burden is extremely low. But even at that low level if the Commonwealth cannot prove that your partner knew or had reason to know that the amp was stolen the charges should be dismissed at that level. I say should because well you know how things go. Your partner was smart for retaining an attorney hopefully it is a criminal defense attorney with experience.

The good thing for your partner is that in PA if the charges are dismissed at the Preliminary Hearing level or later at the Court of Common Pleas or if he is acquitted he can petition the Court to have his arrest record expunged from all official sources.

On the very limited facts you have presented I'd think that there is a reasonable chance that the matter can be put to rest early at the preliminary hearing.

Frankly based on the facts you have presented I think its absurd that the police charged him.
 
Your buddy is in for a $10k ride unless the DA decides he's too busy with crack dealers.
 
What chances are there of this just disappearing with no consequences?[/QUOTE]

If you want something to disappear, putting it on the Internet is not a good start.
 
The good thing for your partner is that in PA if the charges are dismissed at the Preliminary Hearing level or later at the Court of Common Pleas or if he is acquitted he can petition the Court to have his arrest record expunged from all official sources.
Another note on how this relates to his security clearance: Having this expunged from his records will not keep it from a security investigation. Again - he needs to self-report this to his security officer ASAP.
 
Your buddy is in for a $10k ride unless the DA decides he's too busy with crack dealers.

Crack dealers are a dime a dozen, and the guy getting paid $10k is (at minimum) the ADA's professional colleague...any bets on that outcome?

Win or lose, the cops, attorneys and judge all get paid. They always win:-)
 
He used it for a week or so and decided it was too much for his needs, so he goes to trade it in at his normal guitar center that he always does business with.


Hmmm... A couple of things seem fishy......

1 - If he was/is a good customer at the guitar center they should have spoken up when the cops were called to explain his good reputation. :dunno:

2 - It has been 40 years since I rock and rolled in a band.... but............. There ain't no such thing as too much Amp.:no::no::confused:
 
What does this mean / refer to?

US pop culture reference - Holiday Inn Express, a US hotel chain, has a long going TV commercial where people prove how smart they are after staying at the hotel by doing extraordinary things for others as a bystander...performing surgery, being a brilliant chef, predicting the behavior of dangerous wild animals, that kind of thing...it is all fiction. Anyway, at the end there's a question - "Are you a surgeon"..."No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night".
 
My business partner just unknowingly ran into a spot of trouble with the law. He is an avid guitarist and also dabbles at repairing old style amplifiers. He happened to see an amplifier for his guitar that he liked while driving around on service at a small garage sale type place. The next day he went back there and purchased it. He used it for a week or so and decided it was too much for his needs, so he goes to trade it in at his normal guitar center that he always does business with. It turns out that this amp was stolen several weeks earlier and he was arrested for possession of stolen property.The "garage sale" people are no longer there, of course, and he is left holding the problem.

He has retained a lawyer for this, who says it should not be a concern for him. He, however, is mortified. he is fearing the worst in all of this, including jail time, loss of ability to travel, and inability to pass background checks for the work we do.

What chances are there of this just disappearing with no consequences?
JOOC, what is this amp worth? I'm a bit surprised the value is high enough to warrant prosecution.
 
certainly not a felony prosecution . .
Felony can't be ruled out. Such "amps" depending on size can go for $300-$500 which (depending on the state) could fall under grand-theft which (again depending on the state) could fall under a felony.
 
> he needs to self-report this to his security officer ASAP.


+1


Immediate reporting is very important. Do not delay.
 
To those who say that this can't happen as stated, or that the OP's friend has to be leaving something out, don't believe that. My ex-wife worked for a police department, and my brother is a detective for his county's sheriff's department. Yes, it does happen. People get arrested who are innocent more than you'd believe. The best thing this guy can do is shut up and listen to his attorney, and only do what the attorney says to do. Don't talk to the police without the attorney being there. Blah blah blah. Basically do what the guy you're paying to represent you tells you to do.
 
I was walking the dog last night and a local cop stops us and starts asking me questions about my dog, where I walk him etc - I told him that I do not speak with police officers investigating crimes. He got all ****y about it and tried the old 'what do have to hide,' to which I responded by stepping around him and walking away . . . .

I later find out that someone in our neighborhood apparently does not like me - and called the police because I let my lab chase a ball in an empty park for 5 minutes. The problems is that an off the leash dog is pretty much all the cops have to do in this town except for the occasional spousal abuse and burglary - and since it was 730pm all th burglaries for the day had been reported and the spouses had just started drinking . . . and the businesses roll up the streets at 6p except for the bars and it was too early to be rousting drunks.

Is this what we have come to as a nation? turning in our neighbors for a dog off a leash in park where no one is?

Anyway - there are always more facts than just possession . .. unless the police had nothing better to do that day. . . which happens alot.
 
Is this what we have come to as a nation? turning in our neighbors for a dog off a leash in park where no one is?

Yes.

With apologies...

"C'mon people now,
spy on each other,
everybody get together and
suspect one another right now...."

:D:D:D
 
Yes.

With apologies...

"C'mon people now,
spy on each other,
everybody get together and
suspect one another right now...."

:D:D:D
Great. Now I have tambourine sounds stuck in my head! :rofl:
 
Is this what we have come to as a nation? turning in our neighbors for a dog off a leash in park where no one is?

Yup. I work in a large office building and there is one woman working in this same building that calls the cops twice a week on average reporting someone parking illegally somewhere in the large parking lot. She has taken it upon herself to be the parking-lot cop and is going to drive herself to an early death worrying about it. I pray it is a short trip for her.
 
Yup. I work in a large office building and there is one woman working in this same building that calls the cops twice a week on average reporting someone parking illegally somewhere in the large parking lot. She has taken it upon herself to be the parking-lot cop and is going to drive herself to an early death worrying about it. I pray it is a short trip for her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLC1b8nUF74
 
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