[NA]Lawyers, watch out![NA]

A big bank versus a law firm. Which one should I root for?
 
I gotta say- I feel Bad for the counselors, but wonder how they allowed themselves to be snookered here.

I was approached (via email) by an legitimate-appearing business seeking to sue a wll-known US company for breach of contract. The purported client was represented to be a manufacturer of computer power and racking systems, and they wanted me to assert a claim for around half a million dollars.

Having my suspicions, but not feeling like blowing off potential business, I responded with a request for copies of relevant documents and sent along a fee agreement and a request for a retainer (think I asked for twenty five grand, something like that).

Right away, they sent back the fee agreement, signed, and said they would be sending along a Cashier's Check for some amount greater than the requested retainer, so that we could disburse a portion to their "US Manager," for expenses.

Ding ding ding!

A little more drilling, and no figured out that their very slick website was on a URL which had been secured about a month earlier, and it had been copied in whole (except names and logos) from a legitimate company in the same business.

Very slick scam, I can see how it might work against some people.

We never disburse trust funds until actual collection of funds has been verified, and for anything coming from a non-local bank which cannot verify the check's legitimacy immediately, that can be a long wait. Note well- we don't pay ourselves, either. The wait is worth it.
 
I'm far from being a lawyer basher (quite the contrary, actually), but I seriously find it hard to believe that attorneys fell for this. I mean, the con artists in my neighborhood in Brooklyn when I was a kid had better scams than this one.

Frankly, if I were running the law firm, I think I would have just eaten the loss rather than draw attention to the firm. It's pretty embarrassing.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
I'm far from being a lawyer basher (quite the contrary, actually), but I seriously find it hard to believe that attorneys fell for this. I mean, the con artists in my neighborhood in Brooklyn when I was a kid had better scams than this one.

Frankly, if I were running the law firm, I think I would have just eaten the loss rather than draw attention to the firm. It's pretty embarrassing.

-Rich
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Well, not so easy.

May be that they were insured against the loss, and this suit is being brought as a subrogation action by the carrier.
 
I'm guessing you would root for the law firm if they represented you and the bank if you thought your balance was at risk.
Jim Logajan said:
A big bank versus a law firm. Which one should I root for?
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SCCutler said:
Well, not so easy.

May be that they were insured against the loss, and this suit is being brought as a subrogation action by the carrier.
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I hadn't thought of that. Thanks. I learn something new every day.

-Rich
 
wabower said:
I'm guessing you would root for the law firm if they represented you and the bank if you thought your balance was at risk.
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Yep. Everyone hates lawyers -- until they need one.

-Rich
 
May be that they were insured against the loss, and this suit is being brought as a subrogation action by the carrier.
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Scam insurance? A new market!
 
SCCutler said:
Well, not so easy.

May be that they were insured against the loss, and this suit is being brought as a subrogation action by the carrier.
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Not just that Spike but it was from the firm's trust account so it was client money that got stolen by the scammers that the attorneys will have to pay back.

I can see how this could happen, this isn't Prince Abubu the deputy chief commerce minister, this is a lady who walks in to seek assistance not some wacky email. I've gotten those emails and promptly delete them.
 
SCCutler said:
We never disburse trust funds until actual collection of funds has been verified
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How do you know when the collection has been verified? The people (tellers) I've spoken to say they cannot tell the collection has been verified, but can only tell find out it's bad when check is returned.

I also recently heard of one where a wire transfer was reversed because it had not been properly authorized on the sending end.
 
I once had a check returned by the bank six months after I had been paid. My vociferous objection resulted in the bank eating the amount.
 
RJM62 said:
Yep. Everyone hates lawyers -- until they need one.

-Rich
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Even then, people still hate lawyers. Don't forget that a lot of times someone needs a lawyer is because of other lawyers.
 
Steve Foley said:
How do you know when the collection has been verified? The people (tellers) I've spoken to say they cannot tell the collection has been verified, but can only tell find out it's bad when check is returned.

I also recently heard of one where a wire transfer was reversed because it had not been properly authorized on the sending end.
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If its questionable you speak to a bank officer not a teller. I think thats an urban legend about the reversal of a wire. once the funds are received via the federal wire they are received.

Let'sgoflying! said:
I once had a check returned by the bank six months after I had been paid. My vociferous objection resulted in the bank eating the amount.
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6 months is ludicrous the banks should eat that.
 
What great irony! However I don't get how it takes months to figure out a check is bogus.
 
Bob Noel said:
Even then, people still hate lawyers. Don't forget that a lot of times someone needs a lawyer is because of other lawyers.
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Sometimes, but not generally. Most people who get sued did something actionable. Although completely frivolous (and even fraudulent) cases are filed with regularity, I think they're a tiny fraction of the whole.

When I was still doing a lot of volunteer work when I lived in the city, I found lawyers, as a group, to be the most willing to respond when asked for pro bono help. Most often all I needed was a skilled mouth to shake up someone on behalf of a client, but not all of the cases were limited to a phone call or two. Some required quite a bit of time and even the occasional court visit.

We had employers who would lay people off, not pay them their last paycheck, and lie to Unemployment about why the employees were terminated; landlords who had no intention of returning security deposits; used car dealers who would sell lemons that broke down before the (usually young or female) buyers even got them home; scam artists who would take naive immigrants' money to "set them up" in non-existent businesses... the list of scams, shams, and frauds was endless.

The government had mechanisms to deal with some of these situations. For example, the NYS Attorney General's office has a department that deals with landlords who don't return security deposits. But the government's ways of doing things usually took months, and the people I dealt with didn't have months. A phone call from a lawyer with a good mouth usually resulted in same-day results.

Ironically, when I moved, my landlord decided he wasn't going to return my $1400.00 security deposit. The reason was that I hadn't painted the walls and trim white before leaving. But the reason was that I had actually lined up replacement tenants -- good friends of mine, both of whom are NYC paramedics -- who told me not to bother because they would be re-painting anyway.

Because I lined up the new tenants, the landlord got a seamless transition, with no interruption of rental income, and zero work to do on the place in between tenants. They actually started re-decorating and moving in before I even moved out, so when the landlord showed up to "inspect," the place had already been re-decorated (quite nicely, I might add).

After two months of his hemming and hawing about the security deposit, he actually texted me to tell me he was going to keep it because the walls hadn't been painted white. He texted me! Not only was he arrogant, unappreciative, and in violation of the law (because he had incurred no costs, he wasn't allowed to withhold the security deposit refund), but he provided evidence against himself, as well.

Once I stopped laughing, I forwarded the text message, along with an explanation of why the walls hadn't been painted white, to a storefront attorney I'd used a few times for various business matters when I lived there. He called the landlord. The check was in the mail that afternoon, and the attorney refused to take any payment. He said it was a housewarming present.

In short, I don't deny that there are some crooks in the legal profession, nor that some lawsuits are bogus. I also think the tort system could use some reform, and I tend to favor "loser pays" -- at least in cases where the plaintiff's case was clearly frivolous, extortative, or malicious. But on the whole, I've found lawyers to be among the most decent, generous, and ethical people I've known.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
Sometimes, but not generally. Most people who get sued did something actionable. Although completely frivolous (and even fraudulent) cases are filed with regularity, I think they're a tiny fraction of the whole.
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Are you trying to claim that most of the people who get sued are "guilty"? Isn't that a bit presumptuous?
 
Bob Noel said:
Are you trying to claim that most of the people who get sued are "guilty"? Isn't that a bit presumptuous?
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A bit. I'm presuming that most lawyers have other things to do that are more potentially profitable than suing people against whom they have no cases at all.

But again, there are exceptions, I'm sure.

Just for clarification, I am 100 percent behind the presumption of innocence -- in a courtroom. But this isn't a courtroom. It's just a discussion forum.

-Rich
 
I tell my own lawyer that I don't like lawyers and we're friends! :D
Seriously, I have a lot of sympathy for old folks that fall for these scams, but a law firm, not so much. It amazes me that in 2012 people still fall for this crap, if they didn't the Nigerians would stop doing it and try another angle. :mad2:
I had a cashier's check returned after I spoke to the head teller of the bank it was drawn on, her exact words, "I was here yesterday when it was issued, it's good as gold." :rolleyes: That was Saturday morning, Wednesday it came bouncing back!:yikes: It was obtained fraudulently from the bank and while they eventually made it good, it wasn't easy and they did their best to not pay it. :mad2:
 
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