NA -- Identity Theft

JGoodish

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JGoodish
About 2 weeks ago, my wife received a brand new Amazon Visa card in the mail, for which she did not apply. She immediately called Chase (the issuing bank), and it was determined that someone had opened the account using her correct name, address, SSN, home phone, but an incorrect email address and maternal maiden name. Chase closed the account but told her that someone obviously had access to her PII.

We immediately placed a credit freeze with the three agencies, placed a fraud alert on her credit file, and pulled credit reports to see if there was any other unrecognized activity (there wasn't).

I traveled to the Bay Area from the east coast this past week, and coincidentally the day that I got back, my wife received a call on our home phone number from a furniture store in downtown San Francisco asking about a furniture order. After verifying that my wife knew nothing about the order, the person from the store revealed that she was calling because the order appeared suspicious. It was for multiple sofas, using an AmEx account supposedly in my wife's name. My wife immediately called AmEx, and verified that there was no account open in her name, and none of our current bank/credit accounts match the trailing digits that the furniture store provided.

We've done the credit freezes, credit pulls, and fraud alerts, but what are we missing other than hiring for a credit monitoring service?


Thanks,
JKG
 
Great question and I'll follow the thread for any answers you receive. Someone stole my identity a month or so ago and their first move was to buy two cell phones and set up an account with Verizon. Imagine my surprise when I received the first bill...
 
I also filed form 14039 with the IRS -- to prevent the thieves from filing a return to claim a refund.
 
I also filed form 14039 with the IRS -- to prevent the thieves from filing a return to claim a refund.

That is a good idea. I had a concern about fraud with the IRS, but did not know about the form.


JKG
 
She should change all her account numbers for banking, plastic, etc. Most banks and credit union make it easy. Others, not so much. The better ones provide new cards same-day with no fees.

She can also apply for a new SSN if there's evidence of even one fraudulent account having been opened. That part is actually easy. The SSA has a hotline number for it (800-269-0271). Actually changing the number requires an in-person trip to an SSA office with the required identity documents (birth certificate and so forth), along with evidence that the number has been fraudulently use). Other than waiting on line, it's a pretty painless process.

Notifying every bank, credit reporting agency, and government agency that uses the SSN of the change is the hard part. A few companies and many agencies actually have no established procedure for changing the number, so the difficulty depends on whether the right person answers the phone. It can be nightmarish.

Finally, she should have any computer she uses thoroughly scanned for malware, and then change all online account passwords. Some experts suggest a full reformat / reinstall.

The thing to keep in mind is that PII is a commodity. It will be sold and re-sold forever until it becomes useless, which only happens when the SSN is changed. The other alternative, I suppose, would be to keep the freeze active forever. But those freezes get old pretty quickly. They complicate all sorts of things that don't necessarily involve credit but do use CRA identity verification. It will eventually have her pulling her hair out.

Rich
 
The credit freeze will not impact "soft" inquiries on her credit report (i.e. those used for verification, employment, etc.), but will instead only impact inquiries used to extend new credit. As a result, the freeze will effectively prevent the opening of new lines of credit so long as the creditor makes a bureau inquiry for that purpose. The freeze remains in place indefinitely, until the requestor removes it temporarily or permanently.

The fraud alert that she placed on her credit file is only temporary, but it should alert inquirers that there is suspected fraudulent activity associated with her credit profile.

As for changing banking account numbers, I don't see the correlation. We have seen zero fraudulent activity on our accounts as a result of this incident; only attempts to acquire new credit using her PII. Just because someone has her PII doesn't mean that they have ANY of our actual banking information, almost all of which is in my name and under my SSN and not hers.

With respect to malware, she doesn't click on or download anything that isn't known to be safe. And, she has a Mac, which while not immune to malware is substantially less likely to be impacted by it. I'm fairly confident that malware is not a factor.

I suspect that the freeze will prevent the most desirable reason for obtaining the PII. Filing the IRS form is definitely another good idea.


JKG
 
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The credit freeze will not impact "soft" inquiries on her credit report (i.e. those used for verification, employment, etc.), but will instead only impact inquiries used to extend new credit.

Maybe in theory. In practice, not so much. The last time I had a freeze in place it messed with all kinds of things. I couldn't even open a My USPS account because the identity verification wouldn't work. I've been through this sort of thing a bunch of times. I'm kind of an unwilling expert on what really happens after PII is stolen.

The fraud alert that she placed on her credit file is only temporary, but it should alert inquirers that there is suspected fraudulent activity associated with her credit profile.

Right. Which means the financial institution is supposed to do additional verification. The problem is that none of them want to do it. It's too much like work and requires an actual human rather than a robot to get involved. So forget about opening any sort of legitimate account online because you're not worth the time it would take for a human to look at your faxed documents.

As for changing banking account numbers, I don't see the correlation. We have seen zero fraudulent activity on our accounts as a result of this incident; only attempts to acquire new credit using her PII. Just because someone has her PII doesn't mean that they have ANY of our actual banking information, almost all of which is in my name and under my SSN and not hers.

It doesn't mean they don't have that information, either. Do you know with certainty how they obtained what information they do have? If not, then they may have more. It's easier to change the numbers than to deal with the fallout.

With respect to malware, she doesn't click on or download anything that isn't known to be safe. And, she has a Mac, which while not immune to malware is substantially less likely to be impacted by it. I'm fairly confident that malware is not a factor.

I agree that using a Mac reduces the likelihood of malware. But it doesn't eliminate it. A scan would still be advisable. Also, bear in mind that a lot of PII-stealing malware is browser-based these days. That argues in favor of resident anti-malware protection even on 'nix machines. Malicious JavaScript abounds, and some of it doesn't carry a payload that needs to be installed. It just executes on the browser. Finally, legitimate sites get hacked, infected, and/or redirected all the time. So what was "known to be safe" this morning may not necessarily be safe tonight.

I suspect that the freeze will prevent the most desirable reason for obtaining the PII. Filing the IRS form is definitely another good idea.

It's an especially good idea when you consider that probably 99 percent of banks allow their CSRs to pull up customer information using the SSN. This could allow the miscreant(s) who have your wife's information to perpetrate more frauds by randomly calling banks and impersonating your wife.

Rich
 
O.K. depends on your tolerance for inconvenience, but here goes; anything Lifelock can do, you can do for yourself. If the cost isn't a factor pay 'em to do it for you.

Don't use a debit card in a retail store. Any at all - they don't have the IT experise to secure their systems. And after a while, operating with cash gets easier. Using the debit card at your bank ATM is relatively secure. So use a credit card for big ticket items. . .

Don't authorize debits from your bank account, one time or recurring. If one or more your creditors has retained your account info (when you've paid by phone, etc.) change banks or have your bank change your account number.

Initiate a credit freeze at all three credit reporting agencies. It's a PITA to turn them off, and back on, but they work - it will inconvenience you from time to time. Fraud alert is worthless, mostly. Potential creditors aren't required to use it or look at it, even.

Big, wide, wonderful world of mobile and home computing devices - if you're sending or receiving PII from a smart phone app or home computer, you're buying convenience in exchange for risk; if you aren't up to speed on securing your devices, wireless best practices, etc., you're safe only because the rest of the herd is so big. . .

Doctor, dentist, lawyer, etc,. office paperwork; leave SSN blank. Don't buy that "last four if your SSN" crap, either. Any competent black hat can usually figure out the rest - hint- the first three are geo codes.

Most of the people on this forum have probably had PII compromised; if you are a veteran, applied for a fed job, had a mortgage with any of several companies, had health insurance with any of many insurers, etc., etc., then yeah, it's hanging over your head.

The feds are particularly inept; OPM, VA, and some of their partners, have been extraordinarily negligent in securing your data. . .
 
For credit monitoring services, quite a few companies have been breached and offer a year of service free to you. Just find a couple of those that you had an active or closed account, and you should have monitoring for years.
 
Don't use a debit card in a retail store. Any at all - they don't have the IT experise to secure their systems. And after a while, operating with cash gets easier. Using the debit card at your bank ATM is relatively secure. So use a credit card for big ticket items. . .

If you MUST use a debit card, consider PayPal's or one from another issuer that instantly notifies you every time the card is used. I was able to immediately cancel my card, get my money back, and get my card replaced because I have that notification option selected. My debit card was used at a Target store in Queens to buy two big-screen televisions, but because I was notified instantly, I was able to call them within a minute after the charges were made.

Their response was impressive. Not only did they immediately return the money, but they canceled the card in such a way that I could have made one last ATM withdrawal from a particular, designated bank near me if I needed cash; they offered to wire transfer money into my checking account if I needed it; and they assisted the local Sheriff, the State Police, and eventually the Secret Service in tracking down the source of the breach.

My credit union's response was also superb. In that case, the attempted fraudulent use of my debit card was to buy jewelry in Thailand at about 5:30 a.m. U.S.Eastern time. The credit union's security people caught it, declined it, immediately called me on the phone, canceled my cards, and had replacement cards waiting for me at the credit union when it opened for business. There was no need to restore funds to my accounts because they'd declined the charge.

Overall, however, I agree that credit cards are a better and safer way to go. But when I do use a debit card, it's PayPal's. And even that's infrequent and will remain so until they implement EMV. As spectacular as their response was, I really don't want to go through it again.

Big, wide, wonderful world of mobile and home computing devices - if you're sending or receiving PII from a smart phone app or home computer, you're buying convenience in exchange for risk; if you aren't up to speed on securing your devices, wireless best practices, etc., you're safe only because the rest of the herd is so big. . .

Yep.

Doctor, dentist, lawyer, etc,. office paperwork; leave SSN blank. Don't buy that "last four if your SSN" crap, either. Any competent black hat can usually figure out the rest - hint- the first three are geo codes.

Yep again. I doubt there are any insurers left who still use the SSN as an account number. I had to edumucate my most recent dental office about this. Most insurers will still accept claims using the SSN, but they don't require the SSN. The customer number on the card can and should be used instead.

Most of the people on this forum have probably had PII compromised; if you are a veteran, applied for a fed job, had a mortgage with any of several companies, had health insurance with any of many insurers, etc., etc., then yeah, it's hanging over your head.

The feds are particularly inept; OPM, VA, and some of their partners, have been extraordinarily negligent in securing your data. . .

In roughly chronological order, I've been caught up in:
  • Citibank hack (first time)
  • VA laptop theft
  • Citibank hack (second time)
  • Target hack
  • Adobe hack
  • Anthem Blue Cross / Blue Shield hack
  • Fresh Town (a local Food Town franchise) POS skim
  • Home Depot hack
  • Excellus Blue Cross / Blue Shield hack
  • OPM hack
And possibly others I don't know about yet. So yeah, I'm a bit paranoid.

I did a happy dance when EMV was finally implemented here because at least that addressed the POS skimming problems. But it's still a minefield out there.

Rich
 
Another easy precaution is to turn on account "alerts" with your bank and credit card companies. Just log in to your online account and look for a menu item such as "Set Alerts" or "Manage Alerts." Turn on all possible alerts of suspicious activity, and make sure they have your correct email address and cell phone number. You will receive very few texts or emails, which you can ignore when it's a false alert.
 
Maybe in theory. In practice, not so much. The last time I had a freeze in place it messed with all kinds of things. I couldn't even open a My USPS account because the identity verification wouldn't work. I've been through this sort of thing a bunch of times. I'm kind of an unwilling expert on what really happens after PII is stolen.

I have a MyUSPS account and don't recall having to provide a SSN, and therefore there was no credit check. I pay with a credit card, though, so I wasn't requesting a separate extension of credit. Any time a merchant performs the more extensive inquiry, they're going to hit the freeze. Regardless, these types of events are not frequent for most folks, so any inconvenience is minimal compared to having to change the SSN everywhere it's used. And even if the SSN is changed, I'd still want the freeze to prevent extensions of credit when the new SSN is inevitably stolen.


Right. Which means the financial institution is supposed to do additional verification. The problem is that none of them want to do it. It's too much like work and requires an actual human rather than a robot to get involved. So forget about opening any sort of legitimate account online because you're not worth the time it would take for a human to look at your faxed documents.

Actually, with a fraud alert, the institution is supposed to call you to verify the activity. That seems pretty simple. Likewise, doing a targeted and temporary "thaw" of your profile with a credit bureau is pretty basic, but obviously you have to plan ahead in both cases if you're the one precipitating the credit inquiry. Most of our online accounts are paid using a credit card, so there's no request for SSN nor credit bureau inquiry.

Overall, though, I agree that the call-in verification is weak in many places. Name, address, and last 4 of SSN are typically what I get asked. Lazy. The thief(s) already have that info, so we could have account numbers changed 10 times and it wouldn't matter. Fortunately, our home bank won't give more than very basic information over the phone, regardless of how well our identity is verified; they force us into the branch for any transfers or material changes. We keep very little balance in our checking account, have overdraft protection turned OFF (despite the bank's effort to convince us to turn it on), and money cannot be deposited or withdrawn from our savings account using the debit or ATM card even if someone has the card and knows the PIN. Most--but not all--of our online accounts use complex secure passwords and have some type of two-factor authentication enabled. Nevertheless, we have notified our home bank of the situation.

With respect to credit card accounts, there is essentially no fallout except for the minor inconvenience until a new card arrives in the mail. I've had one of my cards skimmed in the past couple of years, and I suspect that I know where it was done, but of course I can't prove it. I had a credit card account in the past that was CONSTANTLY being stolen, which lead me to believe that it was an inside job. After the third or fourth time in a year with the same bank, it did get to be a hassle, so I just closed the account.


It's an especially good idea when you consider that probably 99 percent of banks allow their CSRs to pull up customer information using the SSN. This could allow the miscreant(s) who have your wife's information to perpetrate more frauds by randomly calling banks and impersonating your wife.

I'm not sure that there is a real risk here except with entities where we have existing accounts. Any bank or business where we don't have an account would hit the credit freeze when they did a credit inquiry. Of the institutions where we have our cash and investments, both of them have rather extensive (annoyingly extensive) identity verification processes for call-ins over the phone. Also, our post-paid cellular carrier won't even discuss our account over the phone without PIN-code verification--I've tried to convince them to bypass this on a couple of occasions, and both times they've refused to acknowledge anything about the account without the correct PIN. Obviously, all of this extra information could be stolen, too, but most of it is unique to each institution so unless ALL of it is stolen, the damage would be limited. I'm not organized enough to keep all of this information in one place.

I guess the good news is that identity theft "awareness" is substantially better than it was even a few years ago, but it's still far from where it needs to be with many companies. Heck, it's 9 months since the supposed "liability shift" for non-EMV credit cards, and most retailers either don't take them or don't require their use. And, I still encounter online web sites which can't handle long or complex passwords/phrases or special characters, and don't offer good two-factor authentication.

In my wife's case, I suspect that the perpetrators are after "easy money" using her information. Once they hit the credit freeze, her information will quickly be demoted. If she were a prominent figure where other malicious intent could be a factor, I'd probably be more concerned, but trying to navigate around credit freezes and other obstacles seems like it would be too much work when there's an abundance of other "easy money" information out there.


JKG
 
I just don't do financials online; I buy stuff online, using an Amex card I keep just for electronic transactions. Now and then someone doesn't accept Amex (higher merchant fee), so I shop it elsewhere. I've been with my current bank a few years, so time to swap to another.

My direct deposits do not/not go to my current bank - I do a sneaker-net transfer.
 
I just don't do financials online; I buy stuff online, using an Amex card I keep just for electronic transactions. Now and then someone doesn't accept Amex (higher merchant fee), so I shop it elsewhere. I've been with my current bank a few years, so time to swap to another.

My direct deposits do not/not go to my current bank - I do a sneaker-net transfer.

You may decide not to do financials online, but your bank does them electronically anyway. As long as you use a truly secure password and your bank offers two-factor authentication, banking online presents no more risk and usually less risk than most other methods. Online banking and electronic transfers are for sure far more secure than passing paper checks, where the ABA Routing number and your account number are proudly displayed for all to see.


JKG
 
I've been frozen up for years. After that one mostly just has to keep an eye on existing accounts.

Some goof tried some charges a few months back, it was caught early by the CC co and the account was changed.

There are those who spend all day trying to rip people off.
 
Server side, probably plenty secure. Average user, average laptop, smart phone, nahhh. . .my pay hits an account that hasn't had a check routed to (or from) it since inception. My exposure there is limited to my employer's bank, doing the EFT for pay purposes, having the the routng & account number. Actually not too worried about the banking stuff overmuch; other than debit card transactions, where you've been sloppy with your PIN, your bank takes the loss. Heck you can throw your checkbook on the sidewalk, driver's license inside, and the bank still has to eat the forgeries.

Otherwise, no account number exposure. My "public facing" bank is another institution. Just in general, limit your footprint, hold PII real close, assume the caller id has been spoofed, and any contact you didn't initiate is suspect.
 
Server side, probably plenty secure. Average user, average laptop, smart phone, nahhh. . .my pay hits an account that hasn't had a check routed to (or from) it since inception. My exposure there is limited to my employer's bank, doing the EFT for pay purposes, having the the routng & account number. Actually not too worried about the banking stuff overmuch; other than debit card transactions, where you've been sloppy with your PIN, your bank takes the loss. Heck you can throw your checkbook on the sidewalk, driver's license inside, and the bank still has to eat the forgeries.

Otherwise, no account number exposure. My "public facing" bank is another institution. Just in general, limit your footprint, hold PII real close, assume the caller id has been spoofed, and any contact you didn't initiate is suspect.

I suspect that you're underestimating your actual exposure. More entities are likely handling your information than you seem to realize. Banks are not obligated to provide the same type of fraud protection for traditional accounts as they do for credit cards, and many times they do not.

I don't see how online banking introduces any appreciable risk, and may actually eliminate some risk, while providing huge convenience to the consumer. None of my banking or credit card data resides on my smartphone or my laptop, and that's by the banks' decision, not mine. All communication is encrypted. What I can do through the ATM is intentionally limited for security reasons. My investment and retirement accounts are managed by companies who do not have a local presence but provide the best services at the lowest rates. Online authentication is also far superior to that which I've experienced over the phone. So, I don't see the benefit behind clinging to past practices here.


JKG
 
I'm aware of the "middle level" players and processes, third parties, service providers, etc. Spent a long time in banking and finance, and concur that online banking is probably no less safe than other forms. . .fed chartered (and the stare chartered I'm familiar with) adhere to mostly the same laws and rules - a forged check is the bank's loss; you'll have to do an affadavit of forgery for non-trivial amounts, muck with the bureacracy, etc., but end of the day, the bank takes the hit.

I imagine I lack the faith in software developers - having been one myself, and having managed development projects - to trust without reservations. And since I don't find the convenience that compelling, I've gradually moved away from online transactions. . .still use some, but credit card only, and using a card "isolated" for that purpose.

But speaking more to retail use, that remains the wild west, with wicked bad practices, lousy security, constant hacking. I haven't handed my debit card to a Home Depot or Target or etc. retailer in several years. Mostly, I'm a cash buyer. . .
 
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