[NA]Help Debunk stupid theories[NA]

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Dave Taylor
Every now and then my alarmist sister in law sends the whole family these multiply forwarded posts predicting the end of the world, etc etc.
The latest one is how cellphones are killing honeybees and that will lead to the end of civilization as we know it.:rolleyes:

Its not on snopes yet.
I guess I am bored, because I am ready to come down on this one like a ton of bricks - its just so aggravating!!







> As much as I hate to admit it, it looks like the evidence is building that the microwave electronic radiation emitted by cell towers and cell phones is wreaking havoc with our physical world and bodies. Following is a series of recent stories about the shocking and scary die-off off honey bees and the effects of microwave radiation on human bodies. MDI
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> WORST THAN ASBESTOS AND TOBACCO, NOT ONLY MICROWAVE RADIATIONS FROM CELL PHONE USE AND CELL PHONE BASE STATIONS CREATE TERRIBLE HAVOC WITH HUMAN HEALTH BUT COULD SPELL THE END OF BEES AND OF MUCH OF THE FOOD WE EAT UNLESS THIS LETHAL TECHNOLOGY IS QUICKLY ABANDONED... THIS NEWS IS NOW A WORLDWIDE CONCERNS - SEE AThttp://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=ca&ie=UTF-8&q=HONEYbees&btnG=Search
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> Forwarded by Kathleen Roberts (weerkhr@pacbell.net) and MANY other people...
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> From: http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/wildlife/article2449968.ece
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> Are mobile phones wiping out our bees?
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> Scientists claim radiation from handsets are to blame for mysterious 'colony collapse' of bees
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> By Geoffrey Lean and Harriet Shawcross
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> 15 April 2007
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> It seems like the plot of a particularly far-fetched horror film. But some scientists suggest that our love of the mobile phone could cause massive food shortages, as the world's harvests fail.
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> They are putting forward the theory that radiation given off by mobile phones and other hi-tech gadgets is a possible answer to one of the more bizarre mysteries ever to happen in the natural world - the abrupt disappearance of the bees that pollinate crops. Late last week, some bee-keepers claimed that the phenomenon - which started in the US, then spread to continental Europe - was beginning to hit Britain as well.
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> The theory is that radiation from mobile phones interferes with bees' navigation systems, preventing the famously homeloving species from finding their way back to their hives. Improbable as it may seem, there is now evidence to back this up.
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> Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) occurs when a hive's inhabitants suddenly disappear, leaving only queens, eggs and a few immature workers, like so many apian Mary Celestes. The vanished bees are never found, but thought to die singly far from home. The parasites, wildlife and other bees that normally raid the honey and pollen left behind when a colony dies, refuse to go anywhere near the abandoned hives.
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> The alarm was first sounded last autumn, but has now hit half of all American states. The West Coast is thought to have lost 60 per cent of its commercial bee population, with 70 per cent missing on the East Coast.
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> CCD has since spread to Germany, Switzerland, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece. And last week John Chapple, one of London's biggest bee-keepers, announced that 23 of his 40 hives have been abruptly abandoned.
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> Other apiarists have recorded losses in Scotland, Wales and north-west England, but the Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs insisted: "There is absolutely no evidence of CCD in the UK."
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> The implications of the spread are alarming. Most of the world's crops depend on pollination by bees. Albert Einstein once said that if the bees disappeared, "man would have only four years of life left".
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> No one knows why it is happening. Theories involving mites, pesticides, global warming and GM crops have been proposed, but all have drawbacks.
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> German research has long shown that bees' behaviour changes near power lines.
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> Now a limited study at Landau University has found that bees refuse to return to their hives when mobile phones are placed nearby. Dr Jochen Kuhn, who carried it out, said this could provide a "hint" to a possible cause.
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> Dr George Carlo, who headed a massive study by the US government and mobile phone industry of hazards from mobiles in the Nineties, said: "I am convinced the possibility is real."
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> The case against handsets
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> Evidence of dangers to people from mobile phones is increasing. But proof is still lacking, largely because many of the biggest perils, such as cancer, take decades to show up.
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> Most research on cancer has so far proved inconclusive. But an official Finnish study found that people who used the phones for more than 10 years were 40 per cent more likely to get a brain tumour on the same side as they held the handset.
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> Equally alarming, blue-chip Swedish research revealed that radiation from mobile phones killed off brain cells, suggesting that today's teenagers could go senile in the prime of their lives.
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> Studies in India and the US have raised the possibility that men who use mobile phones heavily have reduced sperm counts. And, more prosaically, doctors have identified the condition of "text thumb", a form of RSI from constant texting.
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> Professor Sir William Stewart, who has headed two official inquiries, warned that children under eight should not use mobiles and made a series of safety recommendations, largely ignored by ministers.
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> Mobile phones massacring honeybees? (APRIL 18)
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> http://tech.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_1293113.php/Mobile_phones_massacring_honeybees_
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> In a time when concerned activists and ecologists continually point to mankind's progressively selfish destruction of the planet, the thoughtless eradication of countless species, and the decadent waste of vital resources, it would now appear that mobile phone users have shifted into the spotlight of criticism where impending doom is concerned. More specifically, certain scientific quarters are suggesting that the proliferation of the mobile phone could pave the way to huge food shortages caused by failing harvests around the world, reports the Belfast Telegraph. Although April 01 has already passed, the worrying theory offered up by scientists is no prank, and it points out that the levels of radiation emitted by mobile phones could well be a defining influence in the sudden decline of crop-pollinating honeybees. Odd as it may sound, the swift disappearance of the honeybee has spread from the U.S. through to mainland Europe, and is now also said to be having an impact on the United Kingdom. Scientists, armed with compelling evidence, are now implying that the massive amounts of radiation produced by mobile phone use is actually frying the usually razor-sharp navigational skills of the honeybees and preventing them from returning back to their hives. CLIP
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> Millions of Bees Die - Are Electromagnetic Signals To Blame? (March 6, 2007)
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> http://tinyurl.com/28yops
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> Bees in the US are dying of some unknown cause - millions of them are leaving their hives and do not come back. What is happening? The problem has got a name - colony collapse disorder - but no apparent cause.(...) After reading several articles on the disappearance of the honeybee, the thought occurred that this appears to be happening only in the US. A Google search turned up nothing on this phenomenon in any other country, including Canada and Mexico. Why only the US? Also, why are nonsensical excuses being offered up by the pseudo-scientific community for the demise of the bee?(...) Disoriented bees? Ah, well this is a possibility. But what would make them disoriented? Perhaps it is the 250 HZ signals being pumped out of GWEN stations all over America. This signal makes people angry, so that they support the administrations idea of going after Iran and violence in general. It works great for mass manipulation of opinion. Unfortunately, the same signal will induce a misdirection of up to 10 degrees in the navigation ability of the honeybee. They go away from the hive and never come back because they can no longer find it. That's why it's only happening in the US. CLIP
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> When Bees Disappear, Will Man Soon Follow? (Apr 5th, 2007)
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> http://omega.twoday.net/stories/3545166/
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> (...) On a recent conference call, Dr. Carlo laid the blame for the sudden demise (often within 72 hours) of entire bee colonies on the recent proliferation of electromagnetic waves (EMF). He cited the startling statistic that, at present, there are some 2.5 billion cell phone users around the world. While this (plus the explosive growth of cell phone towers) used to be the major concern, the problem has been significantly exacerbated by the recent introduction of satellite radio. Imagine being closeted in a confined environment filled with chain smokers; it would be impossible for you to get a breath of clean air. It is becoming equally difficult for you to avoid the now-measurable damage from EMF exposure. Dr. Carlo commented that the constant electromagnetic background noise seems to disrupt intercellular communication within individual bees, such that many of them cannot find their way back to the hive. His conclusions are confirmed by a recent study conducted by three departments of Panjab University (India), which has found that cell phone towers - the dominant source of electromagnetic radiation in the city of Chandigarh - could well be the cause behind the mysterious disappearance of butterflies, some insects (like bees), and birds. Andrew Weil, M.D., author of "Spontaneous Healing and 8 Weeks to Optimum Health," fully agrees: "Electromagnetic pollution may be the most significant form of pollution human activity has produced in this century, all the more dangerous because it is invisible and insensible." In some countries, up to 10 percent of the population suffers from a serious EMF-induced condition that Dr. Carlo and others call membrane sensitivity syndrome. In a recent address to the Health, Social Services and Housing Sub-Panel in the United Kingdom, Carlo explained: "Originally, this type of condition was the result of high chemical exposures; we used to call it chemical sensitivity. Now we have identified the same type of condition in patients who are exposed to various types of electromagnetic radiation. It is a medical problem. People who have membrane sensitivity syndrome have internal bleeding. They can be in a room where somebody puts on a cell phone, and they will end up having an immediate reaction; they will go home and they will bleed and in their stool they will have blood. This condition is very debilitating. It prevents these people from being able to work; they cannot earn a living, they have difficult relationships with their children, their spouses give up on them. .. It is a very, very serious medical problem." The bees are the modern-day counterpart of the canaries that miners used to carry with them as they descended into the mine shafts. If the birds died, it was an early warning of a buildup of toxic gases in the mine. When canaries die or bees disappear, we are being cautioned that we too are in immediate danger. It is time to listen to the message nature is telling us. Denial - the favorite ploy of those whose profits are being threatened - is no longer an option. As Arthur Schopenhauer said, "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." I shudder to think of what will become of humankind if we linger too long in stage two: "no more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man." (...) There is a huge body of research on bees from Germany that has never been considered in the UK. This research shows that bees carry magnesomes in their underbelly and are thus highly sensitive to magnetic fields. They communicate and navigate via electromagnetic frequencies. The German researchers consider bees to be bio indicators for the biological effects of radiation. They are the canaries in the coal mine. The current environment with microwave radiation levels billions of times higher than the natural background levels is like putting a fish in a poisoned pond. The bees try to escape the radiation and get lost and exhausted.
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> Ecological Apocalypse: Why Are All The Bees Dying?
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> http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/100407beesdying.htm
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> GM, toxic chemicals, chemtrails destroying eco-system, threatening very survival of humanity - The alarming decline in bee populations across the United States andEurope represents a potential ecological apocalypse, an environmental catastrophe that could collapse the food chain and wipe out humanity. Who and what is behind this flagrant abuse of the eco-system? Many people don't realize the vital role bees play in maintaining a balanced eco-system. According to experts, if bees were to become extinct then humanity would perish after just four years. "If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man," said Albert Einstein. Others would say four years is alarmist and that man would find other food sources, but the fact remains that the disappearance of bees is potentially devastating to agriculture and most plant life. Reports that bee populations are declining at rates of up to 80% in areas of the U.S. and Europe should set alarm bells ringing and demand immediate action on behalf of environmental organizations. CLIP
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I *think* here may actually be some real science behind this...
 
Fact is, there are a LOT of bee colonies going missing - some keepers have gone out to find they've lost up to 90% of their bees! And those bees are mighty important to the fruit and veggie growers, and thus to the rest of us, as well. Don't know that they know why the bees are going missing, but it behooves all of us to support the efforts to find out.
 
I *think* here may actually be some real science behind this...

If by that you mean that cellphone base station transmissions are killing bees, I don't think so. But if you mean that there's a possibility that man's disregard for his environment are responsible for a decline in the bee population, I might agree.
 
Well whatever is killing the bees, the fact is that no bees = serious devestation in our crops...
 
Hey, I covered my bets with the "I think"-
 
Bee colonies have been dying off for awhile, like 10-15 years, since before cell phone towers became anywhere near as widespread as they are now. There is some kind of fungal infection that is getting to them, I think. The mystery is, what's causing the fungal infection. Regardless, even though they've been dying off for awhile, crop production hasn't decreased. So what's with that?

Judy
 
Bee colonies have been dying off for awhile, like 10-15 years, since before cell phone towers became anywhere near as widespread as they are now. There is some kind of fungal infection that is getting to them, I think. The mystery is, what's causing the fungal infection. Regardless, even though they've been dying off for awhile, crop production hasn't decreased. So what's with that?

Judy

I don't like bees. If their death has no negative ramifications, I'm ok with the species dying off. lol
 
Bee colonies have been dying off for awhile, like 10-15 years, since before cell phone towers became anywhere near as widespread as they are now. There is some kind of fungal infection that is getting to them, I think. The mystery is, what's causing the fungal infection. Regardless, even though they've been dying off for awhile, crop production hasn't decreased. So what's with that?

Judy

That's pretty much what I've heard from some of my bee keeper friends. There is a disease (I thought it was viral, but I wasn't paying real close attention :dunno: ) that seriously kills bee colonies. And we don't have good cellphone coverage in this area but the bees are still dying.

Barb
 
The cellphone killing bees theory has already been debunked.

Boy .. I don't know. Now that I think of it .. I've NEVER been stung
by a bee while talking on my cell phone.

This has me worried.
 
I think we need to turn the Mythbusters loose on this one!!

Frankly, I think bees are simply very small aliens and they've all decided to go home.
 
I don't doubt that bees are dying. That's not what I started this thread about. (Wikipedia suggests various things including parasitism, environment, nutrition are included in the list of possibilities.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_Collapse_Disorder

My concern is this propagation of information as fact or 'likely fact', when it is actually no more than someone's completely unfounded hypothesis....usually with the end result of being rather inflammatory. Very similar to how media handles airplane crashes, no?

Now, I am no expert at critical evaluation of papers or reports, but this one has the typical lack of hard data, no actual research paper was even quoted which even addresses the hypothesis!! One report does however, mention Chemtrails!!!!!!!!
 
From what I have heard on the radidio and in the papers, this is a new thing, over the last year or so. They go out to the hives and no-bodies home. No dead bees, no live bees, no bees at all. And they say that they don't know why - it's not the old stuff, it's something new. But that's just what I have read and heard.
 
I think we need to turn the Mythbusters loose on this one!!

Frankly, I think bees are simply very small aliens and they've all decided to go home.

When the dolphins leave look for the Vogon construction ship.
 
Okay, I'm gonna lay it out. Just this once.

Bees are dying. Masses upon heaps, they are dying. We need them to cross pollinate, right? Maybe not. What if there are already strains of commercially harvested crops which don't need bees?

Enter GE.

However, to make it especially difficult to lay blame, they conjure the scheme of radio waves as the culprit.
 
When the dolphins leave look for the Vogon construction ship.
Damn, Mike, Great minds think alike. I was just going to say that I won't start worrying until the dolphins disappear!

BTW, I have that audio recording of the Flying the Chicago Airspace VFR seminar. I'll send it to you as soon as you're done editing our segment! :yes::rofl: The audio is quite legible, except for audience questions, and the only "annoying" artifacts are the nearby choppers at times and me moving the mic stand to get a better take on the audience questions.

Oh, and there were no bees in attendance, so that clearly provides all the scientific proof needed to show that they have disappeared without a trace! :rofl::no:
 
I like that these 'studies' that blame electromagnetic radiation for some ill always point to cellular. Like there was not electromagnetic radiation before cellualr and it is only now that we are being bombarded by these waves. When in fact the sun is the biggest radiator of these types of waves. Perhaps it is the sun that is the problem and the sooner it is extinguished the less complaining people will do. ;)
 
I don't doubt that bees are dying. That's not what I started this thread about. (

My concern is this propagation of information as fact or 'likely fact', when it is actually no more than someone's completely unfounded hypothesis....

HEY FOLKS read Daves question!!! Dave I feel your pain!! Its on the internet IT MUST BE TRUE! I get a lot of these from my mom who clearly means well but is not the greatest fact checker. Sadly the only way to help nip it in the bud is to check Snopes ( I know the bee thing isn't listed yet) and copy the link and send it back while hitting "reply to all"

Sometimes when I get them from folks who really annoy me, not my mother of course:no: . I will reply to all with the snopes link and state something like " Janet the email you sent out is a myth but while checking the veracity of the email, actually I had my 11yo daughter do it as it is so simple we came across an even more disturbing trend. You should be VERY CAREFUL about mysterious emails being sent out with stories purporting to be the truth advising people to take action as a result of the story. Apparently these stories have NO BASIS IN TRUTH and are commonly referred to as urban ledgends or myths. The real danger in opening and beleiveing these emails is that when the reader accepts any thing they are told Government studies have shown that the receipiant's IQ tends to go down and in turn causes them to forward the emails to others thus spreading the virus that lowers IQs. Some recipiants have been determined to actually become brain dead from receiving and fowarding these emails. While still being studied, government scientists at the NIH, CDC, Los Alamos Labs and Area 54 have narrowed the origin down to either a Chinese plot to lower Americans IQs so they can take over our country or the dumbing down of our world by Aliens from Saturn to soften us up before they invade thus making us more suceptable to their mind control form of governance." Remember ya gotta hit reply to all!
:rofl:
 
Urban myths and chain letters, when forwarded, infect your computer with as many viruses as people on the list.

Pass this on.
 
I still get the: Jane Fonda has never apologized to vets one every few months with outrageous remarks about her that all begin with the B word.

I didn't like what she did when she did it. But come on! Let's get on with our lives.

Best,

Dave
 
HEY FOLKS read Daves question!!! Dave I feel your pain!! Its on the internet IT MUST BE TRUE! I get a lot of these from my mom who clearly means well but is not the greatest fact checker. Sadly the only way to help nip it in the bud is to check Snopes ( I know the bee thing isn't listed yet) and copy the link and send it back while hitting "reply to all"

Sometimes when I get them from folks who really annoy me, not my mother of course:no: . I will reply to all with the snopes link and state something like " Janet the email you sent out is a myth but while checking the veracity of the email, actually I had my 11yo daughter do it as it is so simple we came across an even more disturbing trend. You should be VERY CAREFUL about mysterious emails being sent out with stories purporting to be the truth advising people to take action as a result of the story. Apparently these stories have NO BASIS IN TRUTH and are commonly referred to as urban ledgends or myths. The real danger in opening and beleiveing these emails is that when the reader accepts any thing they are told Government studies have shown that the receipiant's IQ tends to go down and in turn causes them to forward the emails to others thus spreading the virus that lowers IQs. Some recipiants have been determined to actually become brain dead from receiving and fowarding these emails. While still being studied, government scientists at the NIH, CDC, Los Alamos Labs and Area 54 have narrowed the origin down to either a Chinese plot to lower Americans IQs so they can take over our country or the dumbing down of our world by Aliens from Saturn to soften us up before they invade thus making us more suceptable to their mind control form of governance." Remember ya gotta hit reply to all!
:rofl:

B-B-B-B-But-But Bill Gates will donate $10 for every email you forward!:goofy:


What gets me is when they do the [Reply All] to everyone in thier address book, soem of THOSE idiots get your email address so the next worm can find it and email a copy to you.

These idiots are a dime a dozen and if I ver find da guy giving out the dimes....
 
they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.
 
Urban myths and chain letters, when forwarded, infect your computer with as many viruses as people on the list.

Pass this on.
I have FINALLY convinced my 86 year old Uncle to put my name in the bcc box when he forwards along this junk. I could not convince him not to send them, and I could not convince him to check Snopes before doing so. At least I got into the bcc box. Nobody else he sends them to is in there with me. Why? :dunno:

Success? Almost. Everyone else says "Ooh look, Skip didn't get this one" and they forward it to me. :confused:

-Skip
 
I have FINALLY convinced my 86 year old Uncle to put my name in the bcc box when he forwards along this junk. I could not convince him not to send them, and I could not convince him to check Snopes before doing so. At least I got into the bcc box. Nobody else he sends them to is in there with me. Why? :dunno:

Success? Almost. Everyone else says "Ooh look, Skip didn't get this one" and they forward it to me. :confused:

-Skip
Well, I've managed the same "success" with my Mother. Luckily, most of the people she emails don't have my address and thus I don't get the re-forwarding effect.
 
Thanks guys. Today is a better day; I have calmed down!
Every few months, its another Brace For The End of The World from her - I had to unblacklist her address to make the family happy, so now I get these things.
(Nice, Adam!)

I think what I will do is have her come over here with her cell phone and insist she insert it into my humongous bees nest in the big ole oak tree out back, with her bare hands on a hot day, and see if she can knock them all off for me.
 
Oh, man, Fair And Balanced News just did a report in which a group claims that wi-fi networks are contributing "electronic smog" and that "young children are more vulnerable because they have thinner skulls", and therefore they're asking that WiFi be banned in schools.

Sigh.
 
Oh, man, Fair And Balanced News just did a report in which a group claims that wi-fi networks are contributing "electronic smog" and that "young children are more vulnerable because they have thinner skulls", and therefore they're asking that WiFi be banned in schools.

Sigh.
I say ban the administrators instead.
 
Great, another "end of civilization as we know it" scenario off of the internet. I guess then that my recent harrowing ordeal would be considered by the more learned scientific types as being purely anecdotal, but I happened to receive my very first BEE STING a couple of weeks ago. At work, no less!

Seriously, I was outside preparing to conduct a routine safety inspection of the company property while on my CELL PHONE talking with my wife, but just as soon as we hung up, I turned around only to see a yellow and black little bugger making a bee-line (pardon the pun) straight at my face and sting the crap out of me right on my left cheek. I STILL have a little bump there...

I'm guessing that he couldn't find his hive and got p***ed off at me for screwing up his already questionable navigational skills... It's a stupid BUG, for goodness sake!

My only other theory is that he was suffering from domestic issues at home at the hive (in spite of cell phone usage). He DID look quite distraught after all, what, with all the other workers vying for the same queen?

Sounds like a personal problem to me. Well, he's dead now anyway.

Probably for the best...
 
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One has to ask.... "What's the latest buzzzzzz?"

I heard a story on the news this weekend that attributed the loss to insecticides. Maybe we need federal protection for bees? A new candidate now that we've delisted the BALD EAGLE!
 
Oh, man, Fair And Balanced News just did a report in which a group claims that wi-fi networks are contributing "electronic smog" and that "young children are more vulnerable because they have thinner skulls", and therefore they're asking that WiFi be banned in schools.

Sigh.

Tin Foils Hats for all



Frank that is your cue....
 
Dave:

I think what's happened to the bees in regard to mobile phone usage is their 'roaming' charges got too high <g>.

I wouldn't let any bees I had use a cell phone anyway!

Article in today's paper has pretty well discredited the micro wave stuff. Many bee keepers use their cell phone when around the hives and haven't noticed any change in behavior. Some studies seem to confirm that. Who knows, researchers seem to be on the track of a mite, virus or bug like described earlier in this thread. Speculation is queen bee smugglers have brought infected bees in from overseas and they brought something with them American bees are not immune to. Sounds reasonable.

Best,

Dave
 
There is a good article in today's NY Times "Science Times" section on the bee problem. Free access for a day or so at www.nytimes.com, search with the word "bees".

Some quick quotes:

"So far, known enemies of the bee world, like the varroa mite, on their own at least, do not appear to be responsible for the unusually high losses.

Genetic testing at Columbia University has revealed the presence of multiple micro-organisms in bees from hives or colonies that are in decline, suggesting that something is weakening their immune system. The researchers have found some fungi in the affected bees that are found in humans whose immune systems have been suppressed by the Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome or cancer. "
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"So far, colony collapse disorder has been found in 27 states, according to Bee Alert Technology Inc., a company monitoring the problem. A recent survey of 13 states by the Apiary Inspectors of America showed that 26 percent of beekeepers had lost half of their bee colonies between September and March. "
....

"Luckily, a project to sequence some 11,000 genes of the honeybee was completed late last year at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, giving scientists a huge head start on identifying any unknown pathogens in the bee tissue. "

-Skip
 
Colony Collapse Disorder ???? :mad:

Give me a break. The next thing you know the poor critters will be on Ritalin.

I have heard that Bee Pollen or Royal Jelly are good natural remedies.....Oh, wait. :p
 
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