[NA] Buying a classic car [NA]

[SoCal RV Flyer]

For the audio, there are a lot of modern head units dressed up with period faceplates/knobs. I'd go that route...gotta have quality tunes (other than the exhaust note )

 

[Flybuddy]

Good luck with the restoration, it's a lot of fun and I agree with the need for originality. The social aspects of car shows and Mustang groups are both enjoyable and useful while you're fixing it up. One aspect that I didn't enjoy was that after I was done the reality of driving an old car set in, mostly loose steering and poor suspension after we've been spoiled driving modern vehicles. When I sold my last restoration I went more modern and enjoy both the car show/group owner angle as well as actually driving it.

 

[DaleB]

Actually, someone put the decal on the after market air cleaner assembly, which that particular air cleaner with the small filter are just as restrictive to air flow as the original.

The car doesn't look too bad considering its age. Are the floor boards original.??

And thank you for not wanting to paint it red.

Yeah, either way it's a little tacky in my humble opinion. And that, along with the chromed valve covers, makes one wonder what else was done. The floor pans on both sides were replaced... I need to attack the seams with a wire stripping brush to see if they were done right, or need to be re-welded or just re-done entirely. I'm not going to sell a future Flintstones car.

For the audio, there are a lot of modern head units dressed up with period faceplates/knobs. I'd go that route...gotta have quality tunes (other than the exhaust note )

Yeah... some are OK looking, some are atrocious, some actually look good. Putting one of those and all new speakers in will cost a few hundred bucks extra. I'm inclined to let the next owner do it.

The AM radio-looking face is actually a sticker that would probably not last that long... otherwise it's just a blank digital display when it's off.

 

[SoonerAviator]

As for the stereo, you don't HAVE to put exposed speaker grills on the speakers if you don't want. You could try and cover the grills with a speaker fabric or perforated material to "hide" it a little more. Otherwise, the mono dash speaker is all that you can do since it was the only factory-option available. Since you indicated this is just a trial-project, I wouldn't put any more money into it than what is necessary to get it sold. If the AM stereo works, leave it. Upgrade-itis kills the profit on classic cars the same way it affects aircraft upgrades: lots of cost with little to no return on investment.

 

[DaleB]

Yeah, that's why I'm inclined to just pre-wire for speakers. Very little cost, may help sell the car a little quicker & easier.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Yeah, that's why I'm inclined to just pre-wire for speakers. Very little cost, may help sell the car a little quicker & easier.

I wouldn't even bother with the pre-wiring. It doesn't take long to run wire for speakers, nor is it expensive to have done by an audio shop; adds no real value to a buyer. Either put in a 4-speaker modern stereo (with faceplate like above if you want it to appear original) or don't bother with anything other than the factory AM model you already have. Just my .02.

 

[Crashnburn]

Yes, if you aren't purposely doing a resto-mod, keep it as original as possible.

 

[Ventucky Red]

Sigh... OK, OK, I guess if you guys INSIST. Door windows are there and good, windshield and rear window are good. Both bumpers are OK, though I'll probably replace the rear unless I can get it re-chromed cheap. Today I'm removing the hood and dash. More details here. What I really need now is more light, heat and shelves in the garage! And about 100# of tools I have at the hangar, of course.

Of course you're going to keep a running journal here on your progress for us motor heads, and have you picked the colors for it yet?

 

[Ventucky Red]

I bought a pretty nice Porsche 914 base on a very well documented internet ad, and had it trucked from Michigan to California.

Surprised you had to go all the way to Michigan for a 914... there are a ton of them here in So Cal let alone No Cal... must have been a real special clean unmolested car.. care to share a pic? I had an opportunity to buy a 6 cylinder way back when during the first CA real estate crash for a pennies on the dollar... as they say, life is full of would-have, should-have, could-have moments... I am seeing them go for some nice cash these days..

 

[DaleB]

Of course you're going to keep a running journal here on your progress for us motor heads, and have you picked the colors for it yet?

Original, I think. Arcadian Blue exterior, blue interior. The seats are already wearing new 2-tone upholstery and there's carpet and a headliner.

Tonight I checked on the state of the heater, since the hoses are disconnected and bypassed. As it turns out, the heater box is broken. It's a $180+ fiberglass box. I'm debating whether to just buy new, or repair this one. A good little chunk is missing, but I have the fiberglass and epoxy here from some wheel pant repair I did. I'll sleep on that for a day or two before deciding. It would take me a couple of evenings to lay up new glass, clean it up and shoot some paint on it. It's not like it's going to show, it just needs to be functional and not too ugly.

I also found one of the most ghetto examples of defect hiding I've ever seen. I mean, I saw the telltale globs of pink putty and knew there was some crap work done up front, but this... A nice big rust hole under the hood was filled with a great big glob of clear RTV silicone, smoothed out and painted over. I'm not making this up. I have no idea what else I'm going to find up there, but it's getting a little ominous. Oh well... I did budget for nasty surprises and outside labor for welding. It will just take a fender apron and some labor to cut out the old and weld in the new. That was the passenger side, I haven't checked out the driver side yet. Gotta make a run to the hangar before the snow gets too deep... it seems ALL of my 3/8 ratchets have migrated there. I'm not taking the rest of those fender bolts out with nothing but a flex handle.

On the bright side, the more I dig into the interior, the better things look. It's looking like two people attacked this at different times. One did the absolute worst job imaginable, and all his stuff needs to be ripped out and re-done -- plus fixing the additional damage his work caused. The other tried to do it right, even if cheap, and it just needs to be cleaned up and fixed a little.

 

[Ventucky Red]

Awesome Dale... keep it coming.... and pics...

As for some of those ghetto repairs.... I don't want to tell you about the wiring job that was done on my first house... surprised it didn't burn down..

 

[DaleB]

Yeah... I need to tear more of the front sheet metal off to tell what I'm looking at here. The driver side looks pretty normal. On the pax side, I honestly can't tell yet what I'm looking at. I found what looks like a factory reference drawing with nominal dimensions for the entire chassis, so I'll be able to take some measurements and see what's normal and what's not. I chipped away all the primer and filler and crap around the windshield and rear window; no serious issues there, so that's good. It seems like all the "seriously wrong" is concentrated in one corner of the car, which makes me suspect a botched collision repair in the distant past.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

Surprised you had to go all the way to Michigan for a 914... there are a ton of them here in So Cal let alone No Cal... must have been a real special clean unmolested car.. care to share a pic? I had an opportunity to buy a 6 cylinder way back when during the first CA real estate crash for a pennies on the dollar... as they say, life is full of would-have, should-have, could-have moments... I am seeing them go for some nice cash these days..

Here you go. This is after the 5.7-liter LS1 conversion...310 bhp in a 2380-lb. car is a really good time! Hardest thing to source were the ATS 15x5.5 alloys, as most had the 4.5-in. width. Redid all the suspension bushings, replaced all tie rods & ball joints, did a 5-lug conversion with 911 struts and front brakes. A riot of a car, but I sold it to raise funds for the next project, my Vans RV-9A. I sold it to a guy in Atlanta, and he sold it to someone who brought the car back to CA! Go figure.

Lots of 914s in SoCal, a lot of ratty ones at my time of purchase, and the good ones were overpriced. Not super clean, but I was after one that was structurally sound to handle triple the bhp of the original. Funny, the car was sold new in CA and had Redondo Beach parking sticker on the windshield when I bought it, so it's pretty much been coast to coast twice.

 

[Ventucky Red]

Here you go. This is after the 5.7-liter LS1 conversion...310 bhp in a 2380-lb. car is a really good time! Hardest thing to source were the ATS 15x5.5 alloys, as most had the 4.5-in. width. Redid all the suspension bushings, replaced all tie rods & ball joints, did a 5-lug conversion with 911 struts and front brakes. A riot of a car, but I sold it to raise funds for the next project, my Vans RV-9A. I sold it to a guy in Atlanta, and he sold it to someone who brought the car back to CA! Go figure.

Lots of 914s in SoCal, a lot of ratty ones at my time of purchase, and the good ones were overpriced. Not super clean, but I was after one that was structurally sound to handle triple the bhp of the original. Funny, the car was sold new in CA and had Redondo Beach parking sticker on the windshield when I bought it, so it's pretty much been coast to coast twice.

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Sweet ride... the Karmen Ghias errr scratch that, Porsche 914 are a fun car... You should hit the Peterson Museum in downtown Los Angeles for the Porsche exhibit... it has been extended to April 15th....

And also do "The Vault" tour while at it... some cool stuff....

Hmmmmmm, maybe this could foster a Southern CA POA get together...

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

I attended a 914 reunion at the Petersen years ago with my first 914, signal orange with the 2.0-liter, Mahle alloys and original D-Jetronic. I just really like 2-seat sports cars; so far I've had three Miatas (NA, NC and current ride, ND), a first-gen RX-7, two 914s and an MR2 Spyder.

 

[Ventucky Red]

I attended a 914 reunion at the Petersen years ago with my first 914, signal orange with the 2.0-liter, Mahle alloys and original D-Jetronic. I just really like 2-seat sports cars; so far I've had three Miatas (NA, NC and current ride, ND), a first-gen RX-7, two 914s and an MR2 Spyder.

And yet no MG or Triumphs.... and I do understand why... Did your RX-7 have a rotary engine?

 

[DaleB]

Ordered the first small batch of stuff today. Shifter rebuild parts (C4 auto, the shifter bushings are shot and the handle's gone). Couple of books to show how all the body pieces parts went together originally, since there more than a couple missing up front. The big stuff is there, but things like splash shields are long gone. While waiting on that stuff I'll continue removing sheet metal and dash bits.

Anybody ever re-skin a door? I can buy a pair of repro door shells for about $100 more than all the parts, tools and supplies to re-skin them. I'm thinking the hundred bucks will be well worth avoiding the time suck.

 

[DaleB]

Just a quick update. I've more or less put off the body work for now, until I have time to find a shop to do the needed cutting and welding to repair the rear quarters and wheel houses. In the mean time, we've pulled the tired old 289 and have it partially torn down. It looks surprisingly good for 93K miles, really. Bearings are worn but not scored or scuffed. The cylinder bores are original (4.000") with a very slight ridge. I'll have the tools needed to do the actual measurements tonight. So, we don't know yet if it will need to be bored out. The cam and lifters are definitely worn to the point of being useless, which is OK -- it begs for a hotter cam anyway.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Yup, she looks pretty clean on the inside. You should have nice street cruiser once you chunk the intake and exhaust manifolds, throw in a mild cam, and hone the cylinder walls. I don't know what compression ratio you had going, but you may look into upping it slightly and make sure the you have hardened valve seats since the originals were intended for leaded-gasoline.

 

[DaleB]

The stock compression was 9.3:1, and I'm not looking to increase that. The valve seats on the old 289 heads were actually induction hardened, from what I've read. I am thinking about replacing the heads with later GT40P heads, which flow better and were designed for unleaded gas. It would be a drop in compression, from 9.3 to around 8.75-ish. The decreased compression would give 2-3 HP less, but I'm pretty sure that would be more than offset by better airflow. It would also be a little more tolerant of lower octane gas (or take a little more advance) without detonation. Of course, it's more money -- and I would then have 100# of cast iron heads to get rid of.

 

[SoonerAviator]

The stock compression was 9.3:1, and I'm not looking to increase that. The valve seats on the old 289 heads were actually induction hardened, from what I've read. I am thinking about replacing the heads with later GT40P heads, which flow better and were designed for unleaded gas. It would be a drop in compression, from 9.3 to around 8.75-ish. The decreased compression would give 2-3 HP less, but I'm pretty sure that would be more than offset by better airflow. It would also be a little more tolerant of lower octane gas (or take a little more advance) without detonation. Of course, it's more money -- and I would then have 100# of cast iron heads to get rid of.

Gotcha, although if you were going through the trouble of replacing heads, I'd find some aluminum heads from Edelbrock or similar. Better performance, better detonation resistance, and weight savings. $1,700 gets a complete top-end kit including built heads, cam, intake manifold (for 4bbl carb) and timing chain/gaskets. Should produce about 100HP more than the 200HP your 289ci engine did, but still run perfectly on 91/93 octane. Just depends on what you want the car to be when you're finished. Mostly factory, or factory with some modest performance improvements.

 

[DaleB]

$1700 far exceeds the total rebuild budget. I'll be happy with the modest gains from the much better GT40 or GT40P heads, which are available locally and cheap. I'm not building a race car, just looking to refresh and wake up the tired old 289. Better heads, a mild cam, fresh bearings and rings... and not skimping where work is required, but machine work only if needed.

 

[skier]

Growing up my dad had a '68 Mustang convertible with a 289 3 speed in (apparently) Springtime Yellow with a black interior. I never knew what the name was for the color. We always referred to it as "**** yellow". Lots of good memories of that car. Learned to drive stick in it. Drove it to prom. Drove it to my wedding. Trips to get ice cream in the evening. Stalling on the off-ramp from a state highway and finding out we had a dead battery (my girlfriend was not amused). Having the power steering fail (and driving it anyways).

It was never in good shape. Body panels from an earlier restoration didn't fit right and were off the wrong generation car. Suspension failing/failed in the rear. Bearings in the steering with a mile of play. Some visible rust on the exterior. Tons of rust on the interior. But none of us ever cared. Being in crappy shape we didn't have to worry about it getting beat up.

Unfortunately she's now sitting neglected in a garage. With all the rust it couldn't pass the last safety check required and the current owner doesn't want to repair her (probably isn't worth it).

Have fun with your project. And enjoy driving her when she's complete