N number on wings

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Huckster79, Jan 22, 2019.

  1. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2018
    Messages:
    327
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Huckster79
    A couple of us 140 guys were talking how cool N numbers on the wing look, lower left, upper right... can't find any info on it, but reading regs I'm guessing its fine, just doesnt replace doing it on tail too, As its not a listed spot for it? Is there a specific font and size they were? Were they mostly black or white?

    When were they used, and when did it stop?
     
  2. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    3,596
    Location:
    A Rubber Room
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cli4ord
    Until December 31, 1960, the required location for display of nationality and identification marks for fixed- wing aircraft was the wing surfaces, and the vertical surface of either the tail or fuselage. Effective January 1, 1960, all fixed-wing aircraft were required to display identification marks on the vertical surfaces or either the tail or fuselage. Wing surface markings were no longer required.

    https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certif...n/aircraft_registry/aircraft_nnumber_history/
     
    flyingcheesehead likes this.
  3. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    4,497
    Location:
    Eclectic, AL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Hank
    Back in the day (30s, 40s and 50s), "NC" and "NX" numbers were on the bottom of the wings in very large fonts. Google should bring up lots of photos and possibly even the regs, as some restorations use them, with the modern N number in 2" letters at the base of the tail.
     
  4. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    30,261
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Today when the numbers are placed on the wings IAW the prior 1960 regulations. it is simply thought of as the aircraft paint scheme. FAR 45 still must be met. Antique aircraft rules apply to aircraft 30 years old or more.
     
    Huckster79 likes this.
  5. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    6,757
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilawt
    Photo of 120s and 140s in the Cessna factory, 1946:

    assembly_line_1946.jpg

    From this photo of a 1950 C-140A it appears they switched to somewhat smaller characters on the wing. The 'C' was dropped from the registration prefix as of 1949.

    cessna_140a_1708.jpg

    As far as I know the numbers on the wing were always black on early postwar Cessnas that had bare-metal fuselages and silver-painted fabric wings. On airplanes with the optional all-over paint, the registration marks matched the trim color.

    The style of the numbers on the tail changed during the C-140 production run. Here's a '46:

    cessna_140_1204.jpg

    ... and a '48:

    cessna_140_1804.jpg

    ... and a '50 C-140A:

    cessna_140a.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
    kgruber, RyanShort1 and ETres like this.
  6. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    6,757
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilawt
    Notwithstanding the cutoff dates mentioned in that article, the changeover from one style to another was not consistent, and varied by manufacturer. All 1961 year-model Cessnas registered in the US were built still with the big numbers on the wing and small numbers on the tail; and all '62 models, and thereafter, had the 12" numbers on the fuselage sides, and none on the wings. Piper switched to 12" numbers on the fuselage sides only, beginning with the 1958 model year. Beech -- well, the '57 H35 Bonanza had 12" fuselage numbers; back to the wings for '58 through '61 Bonanzas (J35-N35), then back to the fuselage for good with the 1962 P35. Meanwhile, all Model 33 Debonairs had 12" fuselage numbers only, from the start of production in 1960 onward. Go figure.

    Beginning 1/1/1978, FAA allowed smaller new lightplanes (below 6,000 lb. MGW, or something like that) to use only 3-inch marks on the fuselage or tail. Manufacturers' paint designers quickly came up with bolder schemes to take advantage of the additional available canvas area. But under pressure from DOD, the 12" requirement returned in 1983, though airplanes built during 1978-82 did not have to display 12" marks unless they had been repainted.

    Of course, under the current FAA regulation, any lightplane built more than 30 years ago now only needs 2-inch marks on the fuselage or vertical tail, at least for domestic operations.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
    RyanShort1 likes this.
  7. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    5,772
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Aztec Flyer
    Wow. Today that would be damn near a year's worth of piston production in one photo. :(
     
  8. ARFlyer

    ARFlyer En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Messages:
    2,797
    Location:
    Central AR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ARFlyer
    ICAO still requires it but the US filed a deviation against requiring it domestically. Some countries still give US aircraft grief over “lack of national registration markings”.

    Anyone wants reading material to cure their insomnia you can find these standards in ICAO Annex 7.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  9. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    10,851
    Location:
    DXO124009
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Light and Sporty Guy
    I highly recommend painting them on - that way next time you are flying on the lowish side, for whatever reason, it's much easier for the haters to identify you.

    2 inchers for me.
     
    tawood, timwinters, Dana and 2 others like this.
  10. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2018
    Messages:
    327
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Huckster79
    I thought about that as well, they just look cool is my temptation, but I see your point...
     
  11. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    6,757
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilawt
    Just paint 'em on the top of the right wing for the nostalgia when it's parked, and have the 2" or 3" marks on the tail in the old style, which is all you need now anyway. Leave it off the bottom of the wing. That keeps your privacy intact, unless you like to buzz your neighbor's barn inverted. :D
     
    Hank S likes this.
  12. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2018
    Messages:
    327
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Huckster79
    Thats a great idea!!!!! I think I'll hold off on inverted flight in the ol 140 for now :) maybe next year I'll get my acrobatic training in her! lol
     
  13. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,210
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    Well, maybe a year's worth of piston singles for all manufacturers combined, not including Cirrus.
     
  14. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    6,757
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilawt
    Almost makes you want to cry, doesn't it?

    photo2.jpg

    Consider that Cessna built 3,000 of one model -- the 150F -- for the 1966 model year; and over 2,600 for 1967 (150G) and 2300 for 1968 (150H).
     
    GRG55 likes this.
  15. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    6,757
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilawt
    By the way, the FAR (45.22(b)(1)(ii)) allows you to display the old 'NC' mark for historic purposes -- for example, if one has a standard-certified airplane (30+ years old) registered as N12345, it could be displayed as 'NC12345'. If it's an experimental it could be displayed as 'NX12345'.
     
    Huckster79 likes this.
  16. timwinters

    timwinters Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2008
    Messages:
    12,714
    Location:
    Conway, MO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    LTD
    Almost?
     
    GRG55 likes this.
  17. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    6,757
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilawt
    Two 1978 Skyhawks, both still in original factory paint:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The brown one (mine) was built in October 1977. The blue one was built after 1/1/1978, when the short-lived 3" rule took effect.
     
    Huckster79 likes this.
  18. jim.nelson

    jim.nelson Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Location:
    Egg Harbor, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jim
    Since the numbers on the wings are just part of the paint scheme and are not required, do they have to match the tail number? One number (the right one) on the tail, something else on the wing. Fun for all!
     
    Huckster79 likes this.
  19. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    6,757
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilawt
    The killjoys at FAA anticipated that (FAR 45.22(b)(2)) ... "(2) It displays no other mark that begins with the letter 'N' anywhere on the aircraft, unless it is the same mark that is displayed under paragraph (b)(1) of this section."

    That said ... the guy who painted my Cheetah back in 2000 told me that his father, also an airplane painter, once accidentally transposed numbers on one side of a 400-series Twin Cessna. The airplane flew around with two different numbers for six months before anybody noticed. :oops:
     
    Huckster79 likes this.
  20. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    5,772
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Aztec Flyer
    @Pilawt got it...

    You didn't. ;)
     
  21. LoLPilot

    LoLPilot Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2018
    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    LoLPilot
    I think they look awesome on the wings.
     
    Huckster79 likes this.
  22. mwagg737

    mwagg737 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Messages:
    99
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mooney man
    I like it. [​IMG]

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
  23. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    6,757
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilawt
    Yes, the 1956 Cessna 310 ... one of the sharpest lightplane paint schemes of all time. A real classic.
     
    mwagg737 likes this.
  24. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,260
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim
    I've read that its always on the second or subsequent pass that they will get out the iPhones to record video, and jot down your N number...so I've also always limited myself to one pass.